Reality Check: Why all RNC delegates are 'Free Agents' and unbound

[tbone717]

YOU seem to spend a lot of time researching AGAINST backdoors the party purposely planted in their rules for their own purposes.

Hey that's fine. If you want to think that all of these bound delegates are going to overturn the state's primary and vote for Paul, then more power to you. I just don't see it playing out like that and would prefer to focus on what it will take to convince the majority of voters that have yet to cast a primary ballot that they should do so for Paul.

BTW it didn't take much time at all, I just googled the quote and found the original article from 08 where it was quoted. Any one else should be able to do the same

 

[maxoutco]

Here is why It is important to spread this to the general public:
In any situation where something happens that is not expected there is outrage by the opposition. Outrage leads to accusation of fraud, which makes the unexpected event seem illegal and unifies the opposition with more support.

We have an opportunity to make something happen that the general public is not expecting.
To prevent outrage, they need to expect it.

By thoroughly spreading the idea the Ron Paul supporters intend to gain enough delegates to deny Romney the nomination, the narrative in the media and the opposition will shift from us being sneaky, to our legitimate political strategy.
The whole idea that these things happen regularly, and it was to be expected makes it less of a shock to the nation when it happens, and is viewed more like it was a football game with a winner and loser determined by strategy, than the current narrative that we are somehow breaking the rules and cheaters.

The sooner the general public accepts the possibility that the Ron Paul delegates may win, the more powerful the win will be. The goal the GOP has of unifying around a candidate as the nominee has to be the narrative we set as our goal. When we show that we convinced delegates of Romney, Santorum and Gingrich to unify around Ron Paul to beat Obama, the GOP will have the unification victory they want to portray at the national convention. Even if the GOP knows they were beat, they will smile and say they knew it all along and allowed the delegate battle royal to play out as it did. And that is exactly what we want to happen in Tampa.

This is why Doug Wead stated that we need to inform the public.

 

[sailingaway]

Hey that's fine. If you want to think that all of these bound delegates are going to overturn the state's primary and vote for Paul, then more power to you. I just don't see it playing out like that and would prefer to focus on what it will take to convince the majority of voters that have yet to cast a primary ballot that they should do so for Paul.

BTW it didn't take much time at all, I just googled the quote and found the original article from 08 where it was quoted. Any one else should be able to do the same

I never projected that as likely and you know it. The point is your entire reason for being here seems to be to get people to NOT get excited. People need motivation and you drain it, chronically.

 

[tbone717]

I never projected that as likely and you know it. The point is your entire reason for being here seems to be to get people to NOT get excited. People need motivation and you drain it, chronically.

But get excited over the things that are realistic. Get excited that we finally have a two man race, and can go out there and convince voters that Paul is the one man to stop Romney from being crowned the nominee. If you look at the front page of this site, most of it is consumed with trying to find the loopholes rather than frank discussions on how best the grassroots can campaign in these upcoming states.

Are we at a point in this movement, where everyone is comfortable sitting behind their computers with their fingers crossed and hoping for a miracle or are there still people willing and able to get out on the street, knock on doors and persuade people to vote for Paul? If there is there is scant discussion on it.

 

[LKMN]

Here is why It is important to spread this to the general public:
In any situation where something happens that is not expected there is outrage by the opposition. Outrage leads to accusation of fraud, which makes the unexpected event seem illegal and unifies the opposition with more support.

We have an opportunity to make something happen that the general public is not expecting.
To prevent outrage, they need to expect it.

By thoroughly spreading the idea the Ron Paul supporters intend to gain enough delegates to deny Romney the nomination, the narrative in the media and the opposition will shift from us being sneaky, to our legitimate political strategy.
The whole idea that these things happen regularly, and it was to be expected makes it less of a shock to the nation when it happens, and is viewed more like it was a football game with a winner and loser determined by strategy, than the current narrative that we are somehow breaking the rules and cheaters.

The sooner the general public accepts the possibility that the Ron Paul delegates may win, the more powerful the win will be. The goal the GOP has of unifying around a candidate as the nominee has to be the narrative we set as our goal. When we show that we convinced delegates of Romney, Santorum and Gingrich to unify around Ron Paul to beat Obama, the GOP will have the unification victory they want to portray at the national convention. Even if the GOP knows they were beat, they will smile and say they knew it all along and allowed the delegate battle royal to play out as it did. And that is exactly what we want to happen in Tampa.

+rep

 

[RonPaulRevolution!]

This argument against the delegates being free to vote however they want doesn't make any sense... It's pretty clear. They aren't bound... and since they aren't bound, this pretty much guarantees a brokered convention at minimum.

We are going to win this shit!

 

[sailingaway]

But get excited over the things that are realistic. Get excited that we finally have a two man race, and can go out there and convince voters that Paul is the one man to stop Romney from being crowned the nominee. If you look at the front page of this site, most of it is consumed with trying to find the loopholes rather than frank discussions on how best the grassroots can campaign in these upcoming states.

Are we at a point in this movement, where everyone is comfortable sitting behind their computers with their fingers crossed and hoping for a miracle or are there still people willing and able to get out on the street, knock on doors and persuade people to vote for Paul? If there is there is scant discussion on it.

Including by you. You spend all your time knocking down theories.

 

[jay_dub]

IMO, the word 'bound' in now useless. The statement was very clear. We KNOW Ron has 'X' number of actual RP delegates and we KNOW Ron has 'X' number of stealth delegates. Per the RNC's Legal Council's statement, we can now move the 'stealth' delegates' to the 'actual' delegates column.

The trick here is to still accumulate enough delegates to win. Romney could still win on the first ballot. It's not over yet, but things are looking up. Every state from here on out is huge and Ron's California strategy may pay off big in the end.

RON PAUL !!!

RON PAUL !!!

RON PAUL !!!

RON PAUL !!!
​

RON PAUL !!!​

RON PAUL !!!​

​

 

[Smitty]

I never projected that as likely and you know it. The point is your entire reason for being here seems to be to get people to NOT get excited. People need motivation and you drain it, chronically.

The organization he represents has existed since 1991 and has failed miserably at the agenda that it *allegedly* supports.

That leaves one of two possibilities.

A: It's ridiculously incompetent.

B: It's a clandestin operative of the RNC.

I tend to believe option "B".

 

[areamike]

The real delegate count.

 

[freedomordeath]

Tbone, weather you correct or not doesn't matter.. this is a revolution and has MEAT this Benn Swann story, so we throw this at the ROmney camp by informing everyone and put pressure on them to say why this works or doesn't work.

 

[freedomordeath]

THIS IS REVOLUTION TIME.... and to the guys worried about goons, a 5foot skelton with the patriotic fire burning within him will crush any goon.

 

[soulcyon]

Tbone, just my 2 cents: We don't live in a democracy. "Bound delegates" are completely against what America stands for in the first place, I'm surprised the public has turned a blind eye to this corrupt process over the last century.

But then again, only 10% of the populace is needed to make a revolution happen

 

[harikaried]

The even more critical part is that because Romney's support is so weak, it might not be too difficult to convince non-Paul delegates at the Tampa convention to vote for Ron Paul on the first ballot. Just need to remind them that Ron Paul pulls the Independent and youth vote away from Obama and will be able to beat Obama.

 

[georgiaboy]

Tbone, we've been fighting an uphill war against the media to try and reach the general population of primary voters.

Our numbers have increased substantially since 2007, but what will drive the remaining primary voters to switch to Paul, if the media continues with the 'presumptive nominee' narrative, and the continued RP blackout?

Rallies into the thousands, millions spent on ad buys, news interviews, an internet army, PFH, canvassing, are making progress, but the media shaping of majority opinion continues.

I'm with you, I want Ron to win California, Texas, etc., in the primary. We all do. We spend lots of time focusing on that around here.

This is multi-front initiative, though. Primary and straw poll votes are one of the fronts. So are delegates and conventions.

Shouldn't we drive with similar zeal on all fronts, making use of every valid tool at our disposal?

Rhetorical P.S.: Imagine that Ron Paul wins California and Texas. Do you think the establishment is gonna relinquish all the delegates by default to Paul supporters in the district and state conventions of those states and bind all them to Paul for the National Convention, or conveniently find it in their rules to support Romney by acclamation in Tampa?

 

[jay_dub]

The even more critical part is that because Romney's support is so weak, it might not be too difficult to convince non-Paul delegates at the Tampa convention to vote for Ron Paul on the first ballot. Just need to remind them that Ron Paul pulls the Independent and youth vote away from Obama and will be able to beat Obama.

Yup. Now that all will see that Ron could get the nomination, we can focus on the practical reasons to support him, electability in November being the prime one.

 

[georgiaboy]

The even more critical part is that because Romney's support is so weak, it might not be too difficult to convince non-Paul delegates at the Tampa convention to vote for Ron Paul on the first ballot. Just need to remind them that Ron Paul pulls the Independent and youth vote away from Obama and will be able to beat Obama.

I think this is part of what's happening at these district and state conventions, too. Non-Romney folks are supporting the Paul slates because in their eyes he's the 'only conservative left in the room'. Romneycare, flip-flopping, Massachussetts, are toxic.

 

[ProBlue33]

The even more critical part is that because Romney's support is so weak, it might not be too difficult to convince non-Paul delegates at the Tampa convention to vote for Ron Paul on the first ballot. Just need to remind them that Ron Paul pulls the Independent and youth vote away from Obama and will be able to beat Obama.

Yes, this is the point, these delegates want to win, if they see Romney has no enthusiasm for him compared to Ron Paul, it could convince some to switch, some voted for Romney because they though early on Paul couldn't win and had little support. Reminds me of an older Santorum supporter who attended a Ron Paul rally and was instantly converted, by what he saw and heard.

 

[No1butPaul]

I obviously know how you meant this and I'm not offended or anything like that, but after the Adam Kokesh thing, I think we should be careful about using this kind of rhetoric. Our campaign is no longer flying under the radar!

 

[lib3rtarian]

Ok I watched this video again and did some research. What the RNC statement was referring to was a delegate by the name of Brian Jenkins from Utah. In 2008, as we know, Romney won the Utah primary and all 36 of the delegates. But Romney did drop out of the race on Feb 7. Since McCain was the presumptive nominee, and Romney was no longer in the race 35 of the 36 delegates were casting their votes for McCain. Mr. Jenkins objected to this, and wanted to cast his ballot for Romney, the winner of the UT primary. He was allowed to do so, because if the other 35 delegates forced (for lack of a better term) Jenkins to vote for McCain they would be imposing a "unit rule", which is prohibited under RNC rules. A "unit rule" means that the majority of delegates cannot impose their will on a minority of delegates within a state. Utah's delegates were all unbound at that point, since Romney withdrew from the race and released his delegates, but Jenkins was permitted under the rules to vote for Romney.

So the comments from the legal counsel of the RNC were in reference to this one situation regarding Jenkins. I do not think this applies to all delegates from all states under any circumstance and that delegates who are bound to Romney (who is still in the race) can decide they can vote for whomever they choose. Context is very important and I think what is occurring is that we are taking the RNC legal counsel statements out of context, and applying them to a situation that is not the same as the one that was being addressed in 2008.

This is actually an important point. Before we get all hyped up over the video and become complacent, we also want to consider the curve balls RNC can throw at us. I certainly appreciate all info about the process, as motivating or depressing as they may be.