Re: Ron Paul's "border fence" statement

[Aratus]

!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMnLoOnrwbg

!

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

Hello! Mexico [censored] sucks! Until there comes a time when Mexico doesn't [censored] suck we will have an illegal immigration problem.

 

[TonyMcAuliffe]

Here in Germany we had the Berlin Wall. The sovjets said it was an anti-fascist-protection wall but in reality it was a giant prison.
The people were poor because of the communist planned-market crap. Many people died by trying to flee. They were shot by their own people.
They got the "StaSi" (Staatssicherheit, translated "Homeland Security"). It was an agency to destroy the opposition. They had millions of agents in this little country (for example Angela Merkel).
These things can be used and i think they will be used to hold a broken system together.

 

[Bruno]

Here in Germany we had the Berlin Wall. The sovjets said it was an anti-fascist-protection wall but in reality it was a giant prison.
The people were poor because of the communist planned-market crap. Many people died by trying to flee. They were shot by their own people.
They got the "StaSi" (Staatssicherheit, translated "Homeland Security"). It was an agency to destroy the opposition. They had millions of agents in this little country.
These things can be used and i think they will be used to hold a broken system together.

+ 1, excellent first post and welcome!

 

[erowe1]

Hello! Mexico [censored] sucks! Until there comes a time when Mexico doesn't [censored] suck we will have an illegal immigration problem.

If we made immigration legal, then we wouldn't have an illegal immigration problem.

 

[Brett85]

If we made immigration legal, then we wouldn't have an illegal immigration problem.

It's already legal, but obviously there has to be a limit to it. We couldn't handle allowing 20 million people to come here every year.

 

[erowe1]

It's already legal, but obviously there has to be a limit to it. We couldn't handle allowing 20 million people to come here every year.

Why not?

 

[johnrocks]

I have found out this since 2007, no matter what Ron Paul supports or opposes and no matter how small government he is, the Hannity/Limbaugh cheerleading section will find a reason to dismiss him and no matter how big government the others;from Perry to Romney; they will find a reason to defend them or dismiss the evidence.


It boils down to foreign policy, he could be for a 1000 foot high concrete fence with a guard posted every ten yards and they would still oppose Ron Paul, need to get new blood in the GOP because trying to convince a bunch of neo cons;might convince a few; is a waste of time.

 

[WilliamC]

This is why I'm a Pat Buchanan paleo-con first and a Ron Paul libertarian second. Pat supports watchtowers with armed guards and landmines at the border. Cool.

Jut so long as I can have my AA-12 you can have your fences and guard towers.

But you best be prepared to open the gate when I want to get through 'cause unless it's your private property I'm as much in charge of them as you are.



(And the road becomes my bride)

And the road becomes my bride
I have stripped of all but pride
So in her I do confide
And she keeps me satisfied
Gives me all I need

And with dust in throat I crave
Only knowledge will I save
To the game you stay a slave

Rover, wanderer
Nomad, vagabond
Call me what you will

But I'll take my time anywhere
Free to speak my mind anywhere
And I'll redefine anywhere

Anywhere I roam
Where I lay my head is home

(And the earth becomes my throne)

And the earth becomes my throne
I adapt to the unknown
Under wandering stars I've grown
By myself but not alone
I ask no one

And my ties are severed clean
Less I have the more I gain
Off the beaten path I reign

Rover, wanderer
Nomad, vagabond
Call me what you will

But I'll take my time anywhere
I'm free to speak my mind anywhere
and I'll take my time anywhere

Anywhere I roam
Where I lay my head is home
YE' YEAH

But I'll take my time anywhere
I'm free to speak my mind
And I'll take my time anywhere

Anywhere I may roam
Where I lay my head is home
I say!

But I'll take my time anywhere
I'm free to speak my mind anywhere
And I'll redefine anywhere

Anywhere I may roam
Where I lay my head is home

Carved upon my stone
My body lies, but still I roam,
Yeah yeah!

Wherever I may roam
Wherever I may roam
Woah

Wherever I may roam
Wherever I may roam
Yeah!

Wherever I may wander, wander, wander
Wherever I may roam

Yeah, yeah, wherever I may roam

Yeah, yeah, wherever I may roam
Wherever I may roam
Wherever I may roam

 

[WilliamC]

If we made immigration legal, then we wouldn't have an illegal immigration problem.

Immigration is legal, duh.

I've worked with folks from several countries migrated here and who have become US citizens.

Legally.

Of all the functions of government perhaps the most basic is securing it's territory from foreign invasion.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

Why don't Mexicans clean their own house and make it a better place to live instead of being an eyesore on the North American neighborhood?

When we talk about a fence it's a given that we are talking about Mexico and not Canada. Why? Because Canada doesn't [censored] suck!

No illegal immigration? Do you have doors on your house? Locks? Why?

Ive worked with and known some A#1 Mexicans but as a people they need to get their [censored] together.

 

[erowe1]

No illegal immigration? Do you have doors on your house? Locks? Why?

Good point. Since we all are responsible for protecting our own individual property, we can't impose our wills on the rest of the country and try to regulate whom they can welcome on their own individual properties.

In other words, you're also against immigration being illegal.

 

[erowe1]

Immigration is legal, duh.

I've worked with folks from several countries migrated here and who have become US citizens.

Legally.

Of all the functions of government perhaps the most basic is securing it's territory from foreign invasion.

So if there's no such thing as illegal immigration, how can there be an illegal immigration problem?

 

[WilliamC]

So if there's no such thing as illegal immigration, how can there be an illegal immigration problem?

Still having problems with definitions I see.

If there is no such thing as illegal killing how can there be a murder problem?

 

[erowe1]

Still having problems with definitions I see.

If there is no such thing as illegal killing how can there be a murder problem?

If there weren't any such thing as murder then there wouldn't be a murder problem. But there is such a thing. And murder wouldn't cease to be murder if it were legal. But whatever immigration is now illegal would cease to be illegal immigration if it were legal.

 

[WilliamC]

If there weren't any such thing as murder then there wouldn't be a murder problem. But there is such a thing. And murder wouldn't cease to be murder if it were legal. But whatever immigration is now illegal would cease to be illegal immigration if it were legal.

And if wishes were fishes all could be fed.

One of the most basic functions of government is to prevent invasion of it's territory.

As I do support limited government, even a limited Federal Government, I also support the authority of the Federal Government to regulate non-citizens entering the country.

In a free-for-all where any and everyone could come then there would rapidly be no more United States as based on the Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

Of course there isn't much of one left now anyway, and hasn't been since the mid-1800's, but that is sort of the goal in supporting Ron Paul, to get back to some semblence of what the USA used to be, if that is possible.

 

[erowe1]

And if wishes were fishes all could be fed.

One of the most basic functions of government is to prevent invasion of it's territory.

As I do support limited government, even a limited Federal Government, I also support the authority of the Federal Government to regulate non-citizens entering the country.

In a free-for-all where any and everyone could come then there would rapidly be no more United States as based on the Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

Of course there isn't much of one left now anyway, and hasn't been since the mid-1800's, but that is sort of the goal in supporting Ron Paul, to get back to some semblence of what the USA used to be, if that is possible.

"Prevent invasion" sounds suspiciously like a euphemism for something less defensible to me.

How is telling me whom I can and can't have on my own property one of the most basic functions of government?

And I'm still not clear on what's wrong with my earlier point. If the only thing that's wrong with illegal immigration is the fact that it's illegal, and immigration itself is not wrong, then wouldn't simply making it legal solve the problem?

 

[AJ187]

Paul was the only one with the guts to mention the drug war that has ruined the Mexican economy and aided in the instability of their government due to corruption. It was also our aggressive foreign policy in Columbia that moved distribution to Mexico. Illegal immigration is a complex problem, much more complex than setting up fences, roadblocks, watch towers or landmines. I would hope those that frequent this forum would have the foresight to see that.

 

[Tod]

So......just where DOES Paul stand on the border issue?

His official campaign site says: "Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws" but at the debate it kind of sounded like he wasn't so hot on making the border impermeable.

I'm confused.

 

[erowe1]

So......just where DOES Paul stand on the border issue?

His official campaign site says: "Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws" but at the debate it kind of sounded like he wasn't so hot on making the border impermeable.

I'm confused.

Making the border impermeable is not possible. Anyone who says they're for that might as well be for making us all immortal.

I think the key phrase in the quote you give is "her own." In other words, no supranational entity should exist that dictates to the USA what its immigration laws should be. Similarly, the American taxpayer should not be funding the guarding of the borders of Iraq.