Rand's first blow to Trump lands hard

Another huge mistake Rand has made is attacking Trump. Trump and Carson are riding high because they're viewed as outsiders. Rand should have been attacking establishment front runner Jeb Bush. The mood of the Republican electorate right now is the establishment is enemy number one!! So by attacking Trump the biggest outsider Rand now comes across as an establishment insider trying to help Bush. .

I'm surprised he hasn't figured this out yet. Rick Perry called Trump a cancer on conservatism and he's all but vanished. Rand is close to vanishing.

Do you believe every single piece of random rubbish that comes out of Trump's mouth? Perry was nowhere before attacking Trump, and he's all but vanished because he's a terrible public speaker (so is Jeb), he wanders around in search of a coherent thought half the time, and he is vying for the evangelical vote that is being split between 5 or 6 other candidates instead of 1 or 2 like in the 2012 primary. Most of Perry's support is probably being shared by Walker and Huckabee right now. Lindsey Graham has also been a non-factor because nobody likes him outside of whatever slim majority of South Carolina republicans that keep sending him back to the senate.

The moron contingent that thinks Rand is an insider because he won't kiss Trump's ass can sit and spin, Trump isn't going anywhere, neither is Carson for that matter. Rand needs to be hitting Trump harder and on the actual issues. Trump is viewed as anti-establishment because these people have no idea who he is outside of his celebrity persona on television, and they are going to learn soon enough.
 
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No way.

Trump is by far the most liberal Republican in the race. And he's at the top of the polls. He needs to be called out on that.

Yes, Rand needs to run as the anti-establishment standard bearer. But in order to do that he needs to knock Trump of that perch.

I agree that Rand's attacks on Trump shouldn't revolve around party loyalty, though. They should be issues-based.

He probably is the most liberal candidate, but he's also the biggest outsider. This election cycle isn't about ideology. Rand is now viewed as an establishment candidate.
 
You can talk comparative statistics,

I can and I did. I am right and you are wrong.

. If the guy is only interested spur of the moment profit

Is he? He seems more interested in long term profit. The Trump organization is privately held, not a publicly traded corp. CEOs of publicly traded corps are more concerned about the short term.

what does he care about how the country is affected?

So someone can't be concerned about both making money and the state of the country?

he's either amoral or he's a crusader

Did I say he was a crusader? He's a guy who thinks he's awesome. He thinks he's done a great job running his operation and he thinks he could do a great job running America. If he could leave the country better than he found it, that would be the ultimate ego boost for him. The only way that any President can leave the country better than he finds at this point is to put the brakes the elite establishment's plan to subsume America into a mere cog in a global system of medicority via mass immigration and "trade deals."

Is Trump amoral in the way he is going about it? Absolutely. He's willing to lie and demagogue. We've all seen it. It's how he's winning.

Which politicians has Rand Paul greased again?

AFAIK, Rand has never been primarily concerned with making money; his primary concern has been curing people. Rand hasn't set up any multi-million or multi-billion dollar businesses which could be shut down by politicians with a few phone calls. He's a doctor, not a real estate developer.

Bad analogy

It's a great analogy.

but hypothetically speaking, if you operate this way, why is it incumbent upon me to trust you when you say you are making a principled stand on any of these issues if you've gotten thousands upon thousands of speeding tickets thrown out and have turned a couple of people into quadriplegics in the process? It's one thing to oppose laws and engage in resistance against them, it's another thing to make a financial killing by manipulating bankruptcy laws and our crony capitalist system and then expect people to trust you when you claim to oppose what you've contributed to hand over fist.

It's not incumbent on you to trust anyone. It should be incumbent on you to have some discernment. It seems to me the more speeding tickets someone has, the more likely they would honestly be opposed to speed limits and checkpoints and cameras, regardless of his win-loss record in court. (And who are the quadraplegics in your analogy?)

And your counter-analogy doesn't even really hold here anyway. Trump isn't campaigning against bankruptcy laws. He isn't campaigning against eminent domain. He's not campaigning to outlaw casino gambling. Those are the kinds of laws relevant to his business.

None of that has anything with the elite establishment program to deindustrialize and unemploy America. And neither does hiring a few Mexicans. Trump isn't campaigning on a platform that says no one should ever be allowed to hire a legal Mexican. He's campaigning against mass illegal immigration and the international "trade" deals that have been harming the country.

especially at the likely behest of the Clintons,

This is still incredibly idiotic.

Jeb Bush says that Clinton was to blame for Benghazi.

Has he said anything about prison? Has he said anything about her many crimes? Or has Jeb just said she made a mistake?


Only a total moron would deny this.
 
He probably is the most liberal candidate, but he's also the biggest outsider. This election cycle isn't about ideology. Rand is now viewed as an establishment candidate.

It needs to become about ideology. And strategically, I wouldn't want to bet on the sentiment of policies not mattering carrying Trump or anyone else to the nomination.
 
Do you believe every single piece of random rubbish that comes out of Trump's mouth? Perry was nowhere before attacking Trump, and he's all but vanished because he's a terrible public speaker (so is Jeb), he wanders around in search of a coherent thought half the time, and he is vying for the evangelical vote that is being split between 5 or 6 other candidates instead of like in the 2012 primary. Most of Perry's support is probably being shared by Walker and Huckabee right now. Lindsey Graham has also been a non-factor because nobody likes him outside of whatever slim majority of South Carolina republicans that keep sending him back to the senate.

The moron contingent that thinks Rand is an inside because he won't kiss Trump's ass can sit and spin, Trump isn't going anywhere, neither is Carson for that matter. Rand needs to be hitting Trump harder and on the actual issues. Trump is viewed as anti-establishment because these people have no idea who he is outside of his celebrity persona on television, and they are going to learn soon enough.

No son I don't. But I've been involved in GOP politics for 51 years and I can read the mood of the Republican electorate. They think Rand is an insider because he's flip flopped on so many things. Especially immigration. I suspect he was told by insiders like Grover Norquist if he wants to raise any money he has to soften his views on immigration. Well it hasn't worked. Where are the Koch brothers?? Chamber of Commerce? Business Roundtable?? They're not giving any money to Rand that's for sure.
 
No son I don't. But I've been involved in GOP politics for 51 years and I can read the mood of the Republican electorate. They think Rand is an insider because he's flip flopped on so many things. Especially immigration. I suspect he was told by insiders like Grover Norquist if he wants to raise any money he has to soften his views on immigration. Well it hasn't worked. Where are the Koch brothers?? Chamber of Commerce? Business Roundtable?? They're not giving any money to Rand that's for sure.

How has he flip-flopped on immigration?
 
I can and I did. I am right and you are wrong.



Is he? He seems more interested in long term profit. The Trump organization is privately held, not a publicly traded corp. CEOs of publicly traded corps are more concerned about the short term.



So someone can't be concerned about both making money and the state of the country?



Did I say he was a crusader? He's a guy who thinks he's awesome. He thinks he's done a great job running his operation and he thinks he could do a great job running America. If he could leave the country better than he found it, that would be the ultimate ego boost for him. The only way that any President can leave the country better than he finds at this point is to put the brakes the elite establishment's plan to subsume America into a mere cog in a global system of medicority via mass immigration and "trade deals."

Is Trump amoral in the way he is going about it? Absolutely. He's willing to lie and demagogue. We've all seen it. It's how he's winning.



AFAIK, Rand has never been primarily concerned with making money; his primary concern has been curing people. Rand hasn't set up any multi-million or multi-billion dollar businesses which could be shut down by politicians with a few phone calls. He's a doctor, not a real estate developer.



It's a great analogy.



It's not incumbent on you to trust anyone. It should be incumbent on you to have some discernment. It seems to me the more speeding tickets someone has, the more likely they would honestly be opposed to speed limits and checkpoints and cameras, regardless of his win-loss record in court. (And who are the quadraplegics in your analogy?)

And your counter-analogy doesn't even really hold here anyway. Trump isn't campaigning against bankruptcy laws. He isn't campaigning against eminent domain. He's not campaigning to outlaw casino gambling. Those are the kinds of laws relevant to his business.

None of that has anything with the elite establishment program to deindustrialize and unemploy America. And neither does hiring a few Mexicans. Trump isn't campaigning on a platform that says no one should ever be allowed to hire a legal Mexican. He's campaigning against mass illegal immigration and the international "trade" deals that have been harming the country.



This is still incredibly idiotic.



Has he said anything about prison? Has he said anything about her many crimes? Or has Jeb just said she made a mistake?



Only a total moron would deny this.

I repeat "Your posts are not much negative on Trump. Am I to assume you support Paul as your first choice? If so, why do you post so negatively about him while singing Trump's praises despite the fact that he is not your first choice?"
 
Most if not all of the 14 dwarves are placed there by the RNC to manipulate voters so that Jeb could win a bunch of states with narrow pluralities. This is the same tactic the RNC used to promote McCain and Romney in 2008 and 2012. Any reasonably bright person could see that.

Trump totally fucked up their plans by entering the race. The RNC didn't wargame that.

You're trying to say that having fifteen other candidates in the race, so neither Bush nor Trump is able to secure the nomination prior to the convention, is good for either one of them?

And you're calling me a moron because I don't see it?

Seriously?
 
I repeat "Your posts are not much negative on Trump. Am I to assume you support Paul as your first choice? If so, why do you post so negatively about him while singing Trump's praises despite the fact that he is not your first choice?"

This is a weird question. It's like a thought police. Looks like trying to distract from the points made, trying to invalidate the speaker to avoid the argument.
 
This is a weird question. It's like a thought police. Looks like trying to distract from the points made, trying to invalidate the speaker to avoid the argument.

No, its a question. Who is your first choice jj? Because from all the negative posts you make about Rand, I'm guessing ts not him.
 
Your posts are not much negative on Trump.

I've posted to refute the mind-boggingly stupid idea pushed by some here that Trump is part of the "establishment." This is a retarded idea and anyone operating from this assumption will produce only useless analysis and will only lose. If people would refrain from posting such stupid things, I wouldn't have to refute them.

Am I to assume you support Paul as your first choice?
Good guess.

If so, why do you post so negatively about him

I've critiqued Rand's tactics a few times because I want him to win. I don't want him to do stupid stuff that will help him lose.

while singing Trump's praises

Did you even read the post you quoted? There are several negative comments about Trump in there. You're not even a good stalker. At least try to pay attention.
 
No, its a question. Who is your first choice jj? Because from all the negative posts you make about Rand, I'm guessing ts not him.

I tend not to answer stupid questions. Stick to the argument. If you lose the argument, trying to change the topic makes you look even worse.
 
If you don't understand that the elite establishment is trying to run America into the ground via mass migration and rigged trade deals, you are too fucking stupid to have much of anything explained to you. I'd be surprised anyone was able to toilet-train such a person.

For those of us who aren't as smart as you, could you please explain how you know this?
 
Another huge mistake Rand has made is attacking Trump. Trump and Carson are riding high because they're viewed as outsiders. Rand should have been attacking establishment front runner Jeb Bush. The mood of the Republican electorate right now is the establishment is enemy number one!! So by attacking Trump the biggest outsider Rand now comes across as an establishment insider trying to help Bush. .

I'm surprised he hasn't figured this out yet. Rick Perry called Trump a cancer on conservatism and he's all but vanished. Rand is close to vanishing.

yes, because trump isnt an outsider....why would he let a wolf in sheeps clothing go unannounced?

and ya, any argument with perry in it is SOLID! lol
 
I can and I did. I am right and you are wrong.

Why, because you say so? Why should I care again?

Is he? He seems more interested in long term profit. The Trump organization is privately held, not a publicly traded corp. CEOs of publicly traded corps are more concerned about the short term.

Privately held organizations are not immune to short-term ambitions, but I digress. You made the argument that he only cares about money and are now trying to redirect to some sort of principle that he has some sort of rational theory about money-making the dovetails with the good of the country, but at the same time he is doing things harmful to the country internally like manipulating bankruptcy laws. You are basically tying yourselves in knots to justify Trump's candidacy and you are insisting that he isn't your first choice. I'm sorry, I'm calling bullshit, feel free to complain and call me a moron to your heart's content, I'll simply repeat it if that's all I get from you.

So someone can't be concerned about both making money and the state of the country?

Not the way Trump has behaved. You don't care about a country by trying to use the government to ruin your competitors and small property owners, who are also part of the country. Again, trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Did I say he was a crusader? He's a guy who thinks he's awesome.

The way you've been talking about him, he's sounding less like a businessman and more like a Byronic hero. Apparently you seem to think he is about as awesome as he thinks himself to be.

He thinks he's done a great job running his operation and he thinks he could do a great job running America.

How, by manipulating bankruptcy laws at the federal level? We've done that for about a century now.

If he could leave the country better than he found it, that would be the ultimate ego boost for him.

I'm sure it would, but his business model mirrors what screwed up the entire economy, so his ego will probably have to rely on something else for a boost.

The only way that any President can leave the country better than he finds at this point is to put the brakes the elite establishment's plan to subsume America into a mere cog in a global system of medicority via mass immigration and "trade deals."

Spare me the malarkey please. You sound like a damned campaign ad for Trump's ego and you wonder why people are asking if Rand is your first choice?

Is Trump amoral in the way he is going about it? Absolutely. He's willing to lie and demagogue. We've all seen it. It's how he's winning.

So when Trump lies, it's cool. When Rand tries to pivot on issues and uses conciliatory methods, he's part of the problem. Who is your first choice again?

AFAIK, Rand has never been primarily concerned with making money; his primary concern has been curing people.

So he's basically just a step shy of being a monk and just barely breaks even and is taking the bus to every debate just like Mike Gravel did back in 2008?

Rand hasn't set up any multi-million or multi-billion dollar businesses which could be shut down by politicians with a few phone calls. He's a doctor, not a real estate developer.

It's pretty easy to get shut down if you're a successful doctor, in Pennsylvania we've got a whole slew of ambulance chasing parasites just itching to shut down entire medical practices and make bank on punitive damages. I don't know if Kentucky has it as bad as we do with this, but every state has its fair share of this bottom-feeders, and they all have political connections.

And again, you're making Trump out to be some sort of saint who is fighting the mighty state behemoth, when in truth the guy has used the laws to his advantage in manners not in keeping with free market principles, and these have not been solely acts of self-preservation.

It's a great analogy.

No, it isn't.

It's not incumbent on you to trust anyone. It should be incumbent on you to have some discernment. It seems to me the more speeding tickets someone has, the more likely they would honestly be opposed to speed limits and checkpoints and cameras, regardless of his win-loss record in court.

My discernment tells me that you and several others are getting played by a two-bit conman with a sob story that I'm not buying. The thousands of speeding tickets represent the thousands of deals that involved using government favors in order to get deals, your analogy makes it sound like he made his fortune off of a scant number of developments that involved a slight help from government favoritism.

(And who are the quadraplegics in your analogy?)

The people on the losing side of the Kelo decision, the people who's loss of property was wholly supported by your hero.

And your counter-analogy doesn't even really hold here anyway. Trump isn't campaigning against bankruptcy laws. He isn't campaigning against eminent domain. He's not campaigning to outlaw casino gambling. Those are the kinds of laws relevant to his business.

Yes, he only campaigns about the things that benefit him. The contradiction is in your assertion that he cares about what happens to the country.

None of that has anything with the elite establishment program to deindustrialize and unemploy America. And neither does hiring a few Mexicans. Trump isn't campaigning on a platform that says no one should ever be allowed to hire a legal Mexican. He's campaigning against mass illegal immigration and the international "trade" deals that have been harming the country.

Yeah, the trade deals that his buddies The Clintons supported, I've heard this song and dance already, and it's starting to get incredibly boring.

This is still incredibly idiotic.

Boring.

Has he said anything about prison? Has he said anything about her many crimes? Or has Jeb just said she made a mistake?

He put the deaths of the 4 people in Benghazi on her, that's pretty cut and dry. If you want him to use the word "prison" or some other hyperbolic term like The Don, maybe you should send an email to his campaign, it would be a bit more productive than trying to convince me that Trump can turn dog-shit into diamonds, which for the record, isn't going to happen.

Only a total moron would deny this.

Boring.
 
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