Rand's first blow to Trump lands hard

[CPUd]

You gotta be kidding me, we've got "conservative" radio hosts trying to argue that using our own money that would hypothetically go to Mexico to build a wall that will never likely be built is the same as making Mexico pay for it?

Forget asking if Trump is a conservative, we need to ask whether Trump's supporters even know what a conservative actually is.

Yeah, I wish I remembered who it was. I heard it in a Dollar General store in rural TN 8/31 slightly after noon. If it was syndicated, it was likely this guy:
http://radio.foxnews.com/fox-news-talk/tom-sullivan/

 

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

The reason for hitting Trump with this is not that it's a terrible thing to refuse the pledge

Any reason is a stupid reason. A lot of Ron Paul's appeal to voters was that he was not a party hack and he didn't really give two shits about party loyalty. When Rand attacks Trump for not being a party hack and not giving two shits about party loyalty, he is alienating a large portion -- probably more than half -- of his father's base. Rand should be trying to build on his father's base, not destroy it. (That's not to say he should be a slavish clone of his father. Some moderation is fine, but this here is just a horrible miscalculation.)

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Any reason is a stupid reason. A lot of Ron Paul's appeal to voters was that he was not a party hack and he didn't really give two shits about party loyalty. When Rand attacks Trump for not being a party hack and not giving two shits about party loyalty, he is alienating a large portion -- probably more than half -- of his father's base. Rand should be trying to build on his father's base, not destroy it. (That's not to say he should be a slavish clone of his father. Some moderation is fine, but this here is just a horrible miscalculation.)

Anyone who would desert Rand over him pressing Trump on the loyalty oath was never a Ron Paul person, a libertarian, or a sentient being.

But I think this creature you're describing is fictional, a product of wishful thinking on your part (you're obviously disgruntled and hoping Rand loses).

 

[euphemia]

Rand needs to stop wasting time talking about this silliness. I am going to vote for the person whose positions I favor. If he starts talking about them it would be a big help.

Whoever is telling Rand to do this is not giving good advice.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I hate to break anyone's cookie, but Trump appeals to a lot of Republicans because they have been longing for someone to stand up and address problems that THEY see as devastating the country and them, personally. There have been a lot of candidates saying the same 'ol crap about "comprehensive immigration reform", only to watch the borders continue to be overrun at increasing rates, no effort whatsoever to stem it, in fact, the feds encourage it. The candidates have said no amnesty, only to see them push towards just that when they get into office; while doing ZERO to stem the tide. They also can feel in their pocketbooks how horrible all these trade deals are, and know friends who cannot find a job, not only not just in their field, but any at all, or are way underemployed. And all they see from the talking heads and the government they endorse is more of the same crap. THEY ARE SICK TO DEATH OF IT! So, along comes Trump. Someone who speaks to them in terms that they understand. Not some pie in the sky philosophy. And here we are now.

Trump can be beaten. But, the person is going to have to show how he/she can solve these problems and do it in terms that resonate with the Republican voters. Oh, and the rank and file don't like wimps. They want a strong, take charge, kind of guy, that knows what to do.

Everyone may bitch and moan about why voters shouldn't feel like this all you want, or shoot at me, because I said it. But, it doesn't change the reality. It is either addressed, or we do not and lose.

 

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

Anyone who would desert Rand over him pressing Trump on the loyalty oath was never a Ron Paul person,

You can say they're not "a Ron Paul person," but they were people who voted for Ron Paul. Rand needs their votes, even if you want to call them names.

But I think this creature you're describing is fictional

Then you need to think harder. You have no idea what you're talking about.

you're obviously disgruntled and hoping Rand loses.

This is absolute horseshit. You are not a telepath, and you are wrong. Go fuck yourself, moron.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Rand needs to stop wasting time talking about this silliness. I am going to vote for the person whose positions I favor. If he starts talking about them it would be a big help.

He talks about his platform all the time, much more than he talks about Trump; it's just that the media barely covers it.

 

[nikcers]

ITT people who are mad at Rand for endorsing Mcconnel but are okay with Trump endorsing Hillary Clinton.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

You can say they're not "a Ron Paul person," but they were people who voted for Ron Paul.

So you speculate.

Rand needs their votes, even if you want to call them names.

They're dumb animals and deserve to be called names.

I wouldn't recommend that a candidate pursuing their votes do this, mind you, but I'm fortunately not a candidate pursuing their votes, so I can call it like it is.

Then you need to think harder. You have no idea what you're talking about.

This is absolute horseshit. You are not a telepath, and you are wrong. Go fuck yourself, moron.

People such as yourself should not have the vote.

You know nothing, don't know that you know nothing, and consequently injure both yourselves and the rest of us through your foolish choices.

 

[LibertyEagle]

So you speculate.

They're dumb animals and deserve to be called names.

I wouldn't recommend that a candidate pursuing their votes do this, mind you, but I'm fortunately not a candidate pursuing their votes, so I can call it like it is.


People such as yourself should not have the vote.

You know nothing, don't know that you know nothing, and consequently injure both yourselves and the rest of us through your foolish choices.

And some wonder why Rand wanted to distance himself from some folks. lolol

Yeah, I'm talking to you rev.

 

[euphemia]

He talks about his platform all the time, much more than he talks about Trump; it's just that the media barely covers it.

He can control what goes out in the media. He can stop talking about Trump. Just stop it. "Next question? Who has a question about what I believe and what I plan to do as President?"

 

[r3volution 3.0]

He can control what goes out in the media. He can stop talking about Trump. Just stop it. "Next question? Who has a question about what I believe and what I plan to do as President?"

That would work once. The next time, he just wouldn't get the call to do an interview.

...look, I don't like that he talks about Trump either, but IMO it makes good political sense at the moment.

 

[acptulsa]

I heard something very similar on local radio. A caller was saying he was trying to promote Trump to his friends and all they do is laugh at him, ask things like "how is he going to get Mexico to pay for the wall?"
Radio host asks, "do they listen to what Trump says?"
Caller , "no, they just call him a liberal"
Radio host, "tell them he would just subtract the cost of the wall from whatever aid we are already sending to Mexico"

Rand doesn't need to make nice with Trump at all. That would be the ultimately bad plan. Trump will just drag him down with him. The Trump Chumps are getting laughed at. This will be the end of the fad in short order.

If there's a way to pick the poor fools up and get them on our side, it's this: We got an anti-Establishment that you can admit you support without a bag over your head. Turn off the Foxshit and stop letting them tell you how to lose.

If that millionaire Rand Paul met in Haiti really is one of us and wants us to win, he should buy us a string of radio stations. We could do amazing things with a string of radio stations, a network system and some phone lines.

 

[devil21]

I hate to break anyone's cookie, but Trump appeals to a lot of Republicans because they have been longing for someone to stand up and address problems that THEY see as devastating the country and them, personally. There have been a lot of candidates saying the same 'ol crap about "comprehensive immigration reform", only to watch the borders continue to be overrun at increasing rates, no effort whatsoever to stem it, in fact, the feds encourage it. The candidates have said no amnesty, only to see them push towards just that when they get into office; while doing ZERO to stem the tide. They also can feel in their pocketbooks how horrible all these trade deals are, and know friends who cannot find a job, not only not just in their field, but any at all, or are way underemployed. And all they see from the talking heads and the government they endorse is more of the same crap. THEY ARE SICK TO DEATH OF IT! So, along comes Trump. Someone who speaks to them in terms that they understand. Not some pie in the sky philosophy. And here we are now.

There is much truth in your statement from the perspective of the low info rank and file. However, if what you say is true and Trump's rhetoric resonates then it shows just how ignorant those people really are. Trump's going to get Mexico to pay for a wall? Ha, yeah right. Round up millions of illegals? Ha, yeah right. Won't happen. Never mind that a key goal of TPTB (of which Trump is a mouthpiece for) is the formal reunion of the US and Mexico as a single entity. I won't go off further into that tangent but if they're really buying what Trump is selling then it goes to show how Trump is another empty suit playing pied piper just like Obama did.

Trump can be beaten. But, the person is going to have to show how he/she can solve these problems and do it in terms that resonate with the Republican voters. Oh, and the rank and file don't like wimps. They want a strong, take charge, kind of guy, that knows what to do.

But his solutions aren't solutions that would ever be enacted. No one is going to round up millions of illegals or force Mexico to pay for a wall. Sounds like the new version of Hope!

Everyone may bitch and moan about why voters shouldn't feel like this all you want, or shoot at me, because I said it. But, it doesn't change the reality. It is either addressed, or we do not and lose.

Address how? How do you address bullshit, especially when the media gives Trump the megaphone and works hard to exclude the voices of those with realistic solutions? Are you suggesting that to win one must sell out and lie one's ass off, promising false hope and solutions that will never happen? The way to beat Trump (assuming Trump really is a threat to win....I'm far from convinced about that) is to hit him with things that resonate with conservatives just as much, if not more, than illegal immigration. Hit him on his liberal past, his connections to the people that conservatives hate more than Pablo down the street.

 

[LibertyEagle]

There is much truth in your statement from the perspective of the low info rank and file. However, if what you say is true and Trump's rhetoric resonates then it shows just how ignorant those people really are. Trump's going to get Mexico to pay for a wall? Ha, yeah right. Round up millions of illegals? Ha, yeah right. Won't happen. Never mind that a key goal of TPTB (of which Trump is a mouthpiece for) is the formal reunion of the US and Mexico as a single entity. I won't go off further into that tangent but if they're really buying what Trump is selling then it goes to show how Trump is another empty suit playing pied piper just like Obama did.

Well, that's the situation. We're not going to get them to read a 6 volume expose by Murray Rothbard, or reeducate them from the ground floor up. Organizations have been trying to do that like forever. You have to deal with what is and address what voters care most about. I keep saying on here that voters largely vote based on emotion. Reagan got elected because he understood that. If we want to win an office this high, we must too. Complaining that it shouldn't be that way, is not going to get it done. It IS that way. We must face it and plan accordingly.

Ron had the message. Rand does too. The largest problem is way too much philosophizing and teaching, and not enough evoking emotion in people's bellies. (you know what I mean. lol) People have to know what the hell they are talking about. Not us. The majority of the VOTERS. They need to feel like Rand will fix what ails the country and not take no for an answer. He has to make them feel good inside and have hope.

But his solutions aren't solutions that would ever be enacted. No one is going to round up millions of illegals or force Mexico to pay for a wall. Sounds like the new version of Hope!

Address how? How do you address bullshit, especially when the media gives Trump the megaphone and works hard to exclude the voices of those with realistic solutions? Are you suggesting that to win one must sell out and lie one's ass off, promising false hope and solutions that will never happen? The way to beat Trump (assuming Trump really is a threat to win....I'm far from convinced about that) is to hit him with things that resonate with conservatives just as much, if not more, than illegal immigration. Hit him on his liberal past, his connections to the people that conservatives hate more than Pablo down the street.

Devil, by address it, I mean, in my opinion, Rand needs to stop talking like the establishment and step up and address the issues that resonate with the voters and when he does it, please God, don't let him talk about "Comprehensive Immigration Reform". And all the nuance he heaps on, has to go. Because it sounds milquetoast to a lot of VOTERS and sounds way too much like the same old crap they've been hearing from the Republican establishment for decades. They need to see him stand up for what he believes in and they care about and do it was passion. Not the fake attempt when he has said, "we're here to take our country back", because that comes off fake as hell. I mean, I love the words, but the emotion/passion about it, well, he needs to work on that. lol

Anyway, that's my opinion.

 

[jj-]

No one is going to [...] force Mexico to pay for a wall.

What? Putting a tariff is one of the easiest things to do, and it has been done by countries innumerable times.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

What? Putting a tariff is one of the easiest things to do, and it has been done by countries innumerable times.

That Trump thinks using the revenues from his new tariff to pay for the wall means that Mexico's paying for it only demonstrates his economic illiteracy.

 

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

So you speculate.

So I know, because I live in the real world.

They're dumb animals and deserve to be called names.

That's a great campaign message. Go talk to your state's campaign office and tell them you want to canvass your precinct with this message. They might just think it's a winner!

I wouldn't recommend that a candidate pursuing their votes do this, mind you, but I'm fortunately not a candidate pursuing their votes, so I can call it like it is.

You know nothing, don't know that you know nothing,

That's called "projection," dipshit. You have displayed your ignorance far and wide right here on this thread.

 

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

No one is going to round up millions of illegals

Eisenhower did. It just takes the will to do so.

or force Mexico to pay for a wall.

Trump has outlined how he would (at least try to) do so. It doesn't sound very complicated. Again, it is more a matter of political will from both the President and Congress than anything else. To say it is impossible is to give up before trying and only guarantees failure. People -- voters -- are sick of failure. Tarriffs are a constitutional tax and less intrusive of liberty than an income tax. Ron Paul spoke to this many times. There's no reason Rand can't do so as well.

 

[muh_roads]

Twitter numbers are depressing if you are a Rand fan. People who hate Rand are constantly talking shit whenever something is posted from his account. His posts are usually a low 2 figures when retweeted or favorited. While Biff 'Trump' Tannen has a comfortable 4 figures of RT's and favorites on every post from his account.

I know people will say it doesn't mean anything. But the discrepancy in the numbers are not favorable.