Rand Paul's presence-and-jobs amnesty -- WITHOUT E-Verify

[Brett85]

Didn't read any of this and just blocked you.

That's the best thing to do when dealing with "The Free Hornet."

 

[BAllen]

Great to have you here, eating_nachos!
Some people just don't have a clue of the dangers of immigration. More crime, more urban sprawl, more schools, more taxes, more diseases, decreasing wages, etc. The list of detriments is massive! We don't have free markets in other areas, so there is no way in hell free market labor and immigration is going to help a damn thing in this country. You have to free up business and housing regulations before any talk of free labor can be discussed. Otherwise, it will simply destroy the middle class.

 

[UMULAS]

.....

 

[BAllen]

Don't make me guys want to comment on this, you know I will.

 

[Mach]

I have to say, it's like being over-run by another country, but without the guns.... and a long-term run over.

A different country.

 

[Carlybee]

What Americans are competing with the illegals for their jobs? Do you know any unemployed Americans that would shovel cow shit for 12 hours a day?

The construction industry is full of illegals and they work as painters, carpenters, etc. Some are very good at their jobs too. A lot of illegals are operating their own businesses...carpet cleaning, maid services, etc. They are not just our there shoveling cow shit.

 

[The Gold Standard]

I want to produce results, you want to sit on your hands and pretend we all live in your fantasy world.

I have a plan you can get behind and it would definitely get results. Let's have the U.S. army march the streets and gun down every filthy Mexican they lay their eyes on.

 

[The Gold Standard]

The construction industry is full of illegals and they work as painters, carpenters, etc. Some are very good at their jobs too. A lot of illegals are operating their own businesses...carpet cleaning, maid services, etc. They are not just our there shoveling cow shit.

I know, I was stirring the pot. The problem isn't what the illegals do, it is that the government won't allow Americans to do what the illegals do.

 

[Philhelm]

What Americans are competing with the illegals for their jobs? Do you know any unemployed Americans that would shovel cow shit for 12 hours a day?

I have worked in an immigration law firm, and most of the immigrants working illegally seem to have more or less normal jobs. Obviously, the higher-end jobs tend to be obtained by legal nonimmigrants with H-1B visas, but I've seen immigrants working illegally as construction workers, restaurant managers, etc. I don't ever recall any claiming to have shoveled shit.

 

[UpperDecker]

Great to have you here, eating_nachos!
Some people just don't have a clue of the dangers of immigration. More crime, more urban sprawl, more schools, more taxes, more diseases, decreasing wages, etc. The list of detriments is massive! We don't have free markets in other areas, so there is no way in hell free market labor and immigration is going to help a damn thing in this country. You have to free up business and housing regulations before any talk of free labor can be discussed. Otherwise, it will simply destroy the middle class.

I don't know if that is true overall, but I did see it first hand in my home town. I grew up in a decent sized farming town, mostly strawberries so obviously at one point the illegal immigrant population exploded. Santa Maria, CA was once an amazing town, but now there are many parts that people just refuse to go to now because they have been ruined by graffiti, litter, and gangs. The crime rate was once well below the national average, but now remains consistently above. I remember at one point in the early 2000's we had the highest teen pregnancy rate in the nation, probably still do.

 

[BAllen]

The construction industry is full of illegals and they work as painters, carpenters, etc. Some are very good at their jobs too. A lot of illegals are operating their own businesses...carpet cleaning, maid services, etc. They are not just our there shoveling cow shit.

And therein lies another problem. They have undercut the wages in the construction industry. I've seen ads for experienced carpenters @ $10/hr. Used to be $20/hr. Has the price of housing gone down to compensate? Hell no! So what does that do? It takes more home buyers out of the market. The real estate companies are pushed to sell the homes anyway, so they make bad loans. This of course, leads to foreclosures. Bank of America was selling homes to illegals in California. Cause and effect. It's just that simple.

 

[erowe1]

And therein lies another problem. They have undercut the wages in the construction industry.

It's difficult for me to understand the idea that the role of government should include the protection of workers in the construction industry from having their wages undercut.

 

[BAllen]

It's difficult for me to understand the idea that the role of government should include the protection of workers in the construction industry from having their wages undercut.

You failed to read the second part, didn't you? How convenient. You choose what you want to look at. Whether you like it or not, free market labor has a dire consequence, UNLESS YOU FIX THE OTHER RESTRICTIONS IN THE ECONOMY!!! IT'S AMAZING HOW FUKKING STUPID SOME PEOPLE ARE THAT THEY CANNOT UNDERSTAND THIS SIMPLE CONCEPT. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE IF I USE CAPS, ONE OR TWO WORDS MIGHT SINK IN. We'll see.

 

[erowe1]

You failed to read the second part, didn't you? How convenient. You choose what you want to look at. Whether you like it or not, free market labor has a dire consequence, UNLESS YOU FIX THE OTHER RESTRICTIONS IN THE ECONOMY!!! IT'S AMAZING HOW FUKKING STUPID SOME PEOPLE ARE THAT THEY CANNOT UNDERSTAND THIS SIMPLE CONCEPT. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE IF I USE CAPS, ONE OR TWO WORDS MIGHT SINK IN. We'll see.

I didn't fail to read it. It didn't merit a response. It was a made up non sequitur.

Furthermore, if protecting construction workers from having their wages undercut is not the role of government, then the second part would have been moot even if it were true.

 

[eating_nachos]

You failed to read the second part, didn't you? How convenient. You choose what you want to look at. Whether you like it or not, free market labor has a dire consequence, UNLESS YOU FIX THE OTHER RESTRICTIONS IN THE ECONOMY!!! IT'S AMAZING HOW FUKKING STUPID SOME PEOPLE ARE THAT THEY CANNOT UNDERSTAND THIS SIMPLE CONCEPT. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE IF I USE CAPS, ONE OR TWO WORDS MIGHT SINK IN. We'll see.

You're wasting your time. People like him only care about one thing and that's profit. He would trample over baby if it meant making an extra dollar.

 

[Lucille]

E-Verify is a burden on businesses and, frankly, I don't think conservatives who push it even understand how it works. You can't not hire someone, nor can you fire them (that would be illegal), it is often wrong, and using it does not protect a business from fines. All you can do is report a nonconfirmation to the feds, and then they decide what to do. But whatever. We don't mind doing so many jobs for the USG for free...tax collector, social worker, old age and medical insurance provider. Why not pile immigration agent onto it? It's not like time is money or anything.

Employers participating in E-Verify MUST NOT:

Use E -Verify to prescreen an applicant for employment.

Check the employment eligibility of an employee hired before the company signed the E-Verify MOU.

Take any adverse action against an employee based on a case result unless E-Verify issues a
final nonconfirmation.

Specify or request which Form I-9 documentation a newly hired employee must use.

Use E-Verify to discriminate against ANY job applicant or new hire on the basis of his or her national origin, citizenship or immigration status.

Selectively verify the employment eligibility of a newly hired employee.

I'm with Barry:

Don’t offer amnesty to those already here illegally. Sanctions against employers who hire illegal immigrants are unfair; it is the government’s responsibility to determine who is here legally.

Start a guest worker program to “channel the flow” of illegal immigrants through a legal mechanism.

And establish a clear immigration policy that is actually enforced.

 

[erowe1]

You're wasting your time. People like him only care about one thing and that's profit. He would trample over baby if it meant making an extra dollar.

So now you're saying that allowing illegal immigrants to work here is good for the economy?

 

[cheapseats]

You're wasting your time. Some only care about one thing and that's profit.

LIBERTINES.

 

[kahless]

This whole immigration debate is making me really nervous. Any time anything gets passed having to do with immigration it means I lose more of my freedoms and more government interference in business effecting the bottom line.

The immigration outrage next step is going to end up with all of us forced into having a National ID card. I do not like leeches on the system or having to compete with illegals as much as the next guy but I value my freedoms.

 

[The Free Hornet]

You failed to read the second part, didn't you? How convenient. You choose what you want to look at. Whether you like it or not, free market labor has a dire consequence, UNLESS YOU FIX THE OTHER RESTRICTIONS IN THE ECONOMY!!! IT'S AMAZING HOW FUKKING STUPID SOME PEOPLE ARE THAT THEY CANNOT UNDERSTAND THIS SIMPLE CONCEPT. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE IF I USE CAPS, ONE OR TWO WORDS MIGHT SINK IN. We'll see.

A list of things we have to do before having freedom is "FUKKING STUPID".

If you oppose freedom because it is not restored in the exact order, manner and time of your choosing, then it becomes clear that you simply oppose freedom.

Even with 100% pure amnesty forever we would not have anything close to "free market labor". We are ludicrously far from "free market labor":

- price controls
- mandates
- state licensing
- business licensing
- government patents/copyrights
- contract restrictions
- the Department of Labor (#8 on the list) - "free market labor" my ass!

You and not everyone here may not be libertarians (or anarcho/voluntarist) - and that is what it is - but please don't distort the language of freedom. Besides, how can you rationally have a fear of freedom (you unambiguously put yourself in the group of 'fraidy cats)?

a) you're unlikely to get it
b) it is unlikely to harm you if you do