Rand Paul's presence-and-jobs amnesty -- WITHOUT E-Verify

[eating_nachos]

Why do you support a massive Federal database that could be used to deny people jobs?

It's also expensive.

Since when is something that's free expensive?

It would only deny illegals jobs.

 

[erowe1]

It would only deny illegals jobs.

Suuuuure.

The magical government program that would only do exactly what the people selling it to us in the first place claimed it was going to do.

 

[eating_nachos]

Obviously, you don't have that right.

If you really think you do, then you're the one with the explaining to do.

The fact that the system exists in several states and has already faced lawsuits and has won those lawsuits, tells me I do have the right.

 

[erowe1]

The fact that the system exists in several states and has already faced lawsuits and has won those lawsuits, tells me I do have the right.

The fact that someone somewhere does something proves that you have the right to do it?

So basically, there's no limit to the statism that you'll support.

Why are you here?

 

[erowe1]

Let's put it another way.

One of our goals is to eliminate all government data keeping of who works where. No more SS numbers. No more income tax. No national id. Etc.

How are we supposed to move in that direction if we put something in place that only further entrenches those things?

E-verify is not an option. The whole point of Rand putting for any immigration plan at all is specifically so it can be one that doesn't involve anything like E-Verify.

 

[Carson]

I have a hard time taking anyone serious about immigration. I think I will until we get some honest people in office that take their oaths of office seriously and enforces the immigration laws we have on the books. Only then could I consider any new laws. Without the rule of law upfront they just appear to be new lies not laws.

The article is written by one of the long time supporters of law and order regarding immigration. His name is Roy Beck. He put out a great video a long time ago called Gumballs. It demonstrates immigration with...you guessed it gum balls.

http://splodetv.com/video/immigration-gumballs

Another one I liked was this one with tubes.

https://www.numbersusa.com/content/resources/video/educational/roys-jay-walking-capitol-mall-reveals-real-immigration-tradition.html

What he has been doing that really seems to get noticed is the way he has his website, NumbersUSA set up to help you send letters to your public officials. And more importantly he keeps an eye out for you and lets you know when it is time to come and send FAX's or phone.

The way it used to work was you checked off the things that interested you.

He'd watch and if something came up he would get a FAX ready for you to send then he'd email you.

You would go to your "Action Board" and click on the FAX's he has ready. You can read them. Edit them. Add anything you want and then click send. It is just that easy.

It has been a while since I've been there. I see I have a few ready.

I don't see where it is you sign up. Maybe on the Action Board itself?

https://www.numbersusa.com/content/my/action/board

 

[The Free Hornet]

Oh, I see you're a liberal. No point in arguing with you then.

Yes, liberal, without a fucking once of pity for statists and illiberal assholes:

lib·er·al
[lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl]
adjective
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. ( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3.of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism, especially the freedom of the individual and governmental guarantees of individual rights and liberties.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.

It is not a perfect word and it is often misunderstood by the poorly educated. That you would sling it as an insult speaks more about yourself.

 

[The Free Hornet]

I have a hard time taking anyone serious about immigration. I think I will until we get some honest people in office that take their oaths of office seriously and enforces the immigration laws we have on the books.

So... never then?

Why not shelve all political discussion? Why start this thread and give that opinion?

Why premise new laws on the enforcement of old laws. The non-enforcement of those laws might be an indicator that they are worthless.

How about we repeal the dumb and unenforced laws and then focus on smart laws or, possibly, freedom.

 

[eating_nachos]

Let's put it another way.

One of our goals is to eliminate all government data keeping of who works where. No more SS numbers. No more income tax. No national id. Etc.

How are we supposed to move in that direction if we put something in place that only further entrenches those things?

E-verify is not an option. The whole point of Rand putting for any immigration plan at all is specifically so it can be one that doesn't involve anything like E-Verify.

That's not OUR goal, that's YOUR goal.

 

[Brett85]

Another thing to consider. Why would he support unchecked immigration when these people do not vote for freedom candidates? They vote for the freebies offered by the Dems. That's like cutting your own throat.

1) He's not allowing them to vote right away, just obtain a work permit and work here.
2) Eventually hispanics are going to be the majority group in America anyway, even if the illegals who are here never become citizens. The Republican Party has to figure out some way to get their vote or else they will become a permanent minority party.

 

[eating_nachos]

So... never then?

Why not shelve all political discussion? Why start this thread and give that opinion?

Why premise new laws on the enforcement of old laws. The non-enforcement of those laws might be an indicator that they are worthless.

How about we repeal the dumb and unenforced laws and then focus on smart laws or, possibly, freedom.

By "smart laws" do you really mean laws that will allow you to exploit illegals and to push down the wages of working class Americans?

 

[William R]

Rand Paul self destructs.

 

[eating_nachos]

1) He's not allowing them to vote right away, just obtain a work permit and work here.
2) Eventually hispanics are going to be the majority group in America anyway, even if the illegals who are here never become citizens. The Republican Party has to figure out some way to get their vote or else they will become a permanent minority party.

Hispanics are not going to be the majority, that will still be whites.

 

[Brett85]

Who said they're not options? You?

E-Verify is already being used in over a dozen states and is a part of Rubio's plan.

You take away the incentive to be here and they'll leave on their own.

Rubio's plan mandates the E-Verify program at the federal level for every single business. It's just an unconstitutional power grab by the federal government.

 

[Brett85]

Hispanics are not going to be the majority, that will still be whites.

Even a lot of the white population now is part white, part Hispanic. Whites and hispanics are marrying and having kids, so you're ultimately just going to have more of a blended society in the future. You're still going to have tons of people with Hispanic heritage.

 

[eating_nachos]

Yes, liberal, without a fucking once of pity for statists and illiberal assholes:



It is not a perfect word and it is often misunderstood by the poorly educated. That you would sling it as an insult speaks more about yourself.

You do realize that meaning of the word has evolved to mean something else don't you?

So, in other words , fuck you.

 

[eating_nachos]

Even a lot of the white population now is part white, part Hispanic. Whites and hispanics are marrying and having kids, so you're ultimately just going to have more of a blended society in the future. You're still going to have tons of people with Hispanic heritage.

You're basing this on what, your imagination?

 

[erowe1]

You're basing this on what, your imagination?

Those categories are all arbitrary anyway. You can define "white" however you want to make it a majority or minority. It's not like the human race is divided up into these separate races in some physical objective way.

If you count political persuasions are part of the makeup of race, then it's already the case that whatever race wants freedom is a small minority now, and you're not a part of it.

 

[eating_nachos]

Those categories are all arbitrary anyway. You can define "white" however you want to make it a majority or minority. It's not like the human race is divided up into these separate races in some physical objective way.

If you count political persuasions are part of the makeup of race, then it's already the case that whatever race wants freedom is a small minority now, and you're not a part of it.

I would love to know the fantasy land you live in, does it exist outside your mind?

 

[eating_nachos]

erowe1, I got your lovely message, does supporting e-verify exclude me from voting for liberty candidates or do I need your approval before hand? Is their room for non libertarians in your movement?