Rand Paul says U.S. needs a reawakening from "spiritual crisis"

showpan said:
I believe that life is not a life until it has developed into a self sustaining organism. This is somewhere around 6 months, maybe slightly sooner but it's chances are quite slim. Most abortions happen within the first month or two. While it can be argued that it is still indeed life....it still cannot survive on it's own. If the parent wants to pull the plug....that is up to them. It is NOT your creation.

What happens when you abolish Abortion...this country has already traveled down that road.

Fortunately, a majority of people in this country agree with me and an overwhelming majority also agree that illegal immigrants need to go.
Unfortunately, we have elected a bunch of corporate fascists who use non issues like abortion to distract from the real issues.
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By your definition though a 6 month old baby isn't a self sustaining organism because it requires constant attention of the parent to live.The only difference is one is inside the womb and one is outside.

Through abortion are you not denying life and liberty of a persons life that could have been? Just because a fetus doesnt have the ability to speak yet ,they are a human life just like you and me.Why do they have no rights?
 
I agree. I'm not Christian, but... I get what he means. We're a society very caught up only in the consequences of our actions, only looking at the end result of things, and not enough on the moral intentions of what we do. So we tend to be very reactionary about everything, and especially about issues like war, terrorism, poverty, racism, etc...without considering the underlying morals and philosophies that drive these problems in the first place. Thinking like: there's terrorism, therefore we need TSA. There's poverty, therefore we need more social programs. There's greed and corruption, therefore we need regulations. Etc, etc. But why is there terrorism, why is there greed, why is there so much poverty?

If you don't understand the kind of moral, philosophical, or cultural heritage that inspired founding documents like the Constitution, it's difficult to understand it or care much about it, when it is ignored. If you don't appreciate what liberty is, then how you can you understand about the role of government being set up to protect liberty?

I don't think being prolife and Christian makes Rand a neocon. It just makes him Christian and prolife.
 
showpan said:
For a Libertarian to be pro life is fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Ron Paul doesn't enact laws forbidding a persons choice.
To try and enact laws against an issue that is of such personal nature and nobody's fucking business....is not a Libertarian.

The problems we face are not spiritual....lol
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So you're basically saying that you're ok with Ron, since he claims that he's pro life but still votes against most pro life legislation in Congress. That's the main problem I've had with Ron, although I still supported him in the primary. If you're going to claim to be pro life, then you should actually vote that way as a member of Congress. If you don't vote pro life, then don't claim to be pro life.
 
July said:
I don't think being prolife and Christian makes Rand a neocon. It just makes him Christian and prolife.
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Yeah, that seems like a pretty simple concept to understand.
 
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robert9712000 said:
By your definition though a 6 month old baby isn't a self sustaining organism because it requires constant attention of the parent to live.The only difference is one is inside the womb and one is outside.

Through abortion are you not denying life and liberty of a persons life that could have been? Just because a fetus doesnt have the ability to speak yet ,they are a human life just like you and me.Why do they have no rights?
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Because showpan and the rest of the infanticide ghouls "believe" they shouldn't. Taking a life is the ultimate taking of liberty.

Liberty for me, but not for thee.
 
Traditional Conservative said:
Yeah, that seems like a pretty simply concept to understand.
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Well I guess it's easy to see the confusion, because evangelicals came in and built a coalition with neocons, so neocons pander for their vote, and have absorbed some of their rhetoric. But they aren't the same thing, and that doesn't mean they can't build a coalition with us instead. But it's interesting to me, because before Ron Paul, I had never heard of or considered the libertarian argument in favor of prolife. My impression of libertarianism (before I had studied much about it) was that it was more or less an atheistic philosophy, and pro-choice. I've personally been prolife for years, but not so much due to my religious beliefs.
 
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July said:
Well I guess it's easy to see the confusion, because evangelicals came in and built a coalition with neocons, so neocons pander for their vote, and have absorbed some of their rhetoric. But they aren't the same thing, and that doesn't mean they can't build a coalition with us instead. But it's interesting to me, because before Ron Paul, I had never heard of or considered the libertarian argument in favor of prolife. My impression of libertarianism (before I had studied much about it) was that it was more or less an atheistic philosophy, and pro-choice. I've personally been prolife for years, but not so much due to my religious beliefs.
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Me either. I don't see what being pro life has to do with "religion." There's actually a group called "Atheists for Life."

http://www.godlessprolifers.org/home.html
 
robert9712000 said:
By your definition though a 6 month old baby isn't a self sustaining organism because it requires constant attention of the parent to live.The only difference is one is inside the womb and one is outside.

Through abortion are you not denying life and liberty of a persons life that could have been? Just because a fetus doesnt have the ability to speak yet ,they are a human life just like you and me.Why do they have no rights?
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Again the problem with this reasoning is that you have a legal recourse to get rid of a child if you want to get rid of it. Adoption, foster care. Maybe we should be sponsering research on how to bring a child to term outside of the human body so that you can have the same means before birth?
 
There is a difference between "spirituality" and "religiosity" - one can be atheist and still be very spiritual.
I don't think you have to believe in God or a god to see their is a spiritual crisis in this country.
 
DerailingDaTrain said:
There is no moral or spiritual crisis in this country.
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LibertyEagle said:
You must be very young. Otherwise, you would be seeing how very far our country has fallen in this regard.
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Yeah, I don't think it is up for debate any longer:
http://www.tmz.com/2012/06/14/octomom-porn-solo-nude-topless-masturbation-pictures-photos/
Here they are -- the pictures you've all been waiting for ... or were hoping would never surface ... Octomom ... completely naked and doing the unspeakable ... SURROUNDED BY BABY STUFF.

The pics are shockingly graphic -- so click at your own risk -- but we have to be honest ... for someone with fourteen kids, Octo looks damn good.

TMZ broke the story ... Nadya Suleman has partnered with porn studio Wicked Pictures to produce a self-pleasure video -- entitled "Octomom: Home Alone" -- set for online release on June 20.
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I don't put most of the blame on people living today. We are just living the consequences of the 17th amendment. Moreover, in this era there is a lot more talk about repealing the 17th amendment than ever before, even if it's not much, but it indicates to me that morally many people are moving in the right direction.
 
V3n said:
There is a difference between "spirituality" and "religiosity" - one can be atheist and still be very spiritual.
I don't think you have to believe in God or a god to see their is a spiritual crisis in this country.
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Definitely, I agree.

And we have very few prominent leaders of any sort teaching spirituality. Too many of our religious leaders are in the pocket of politicians. Our popular music and art has gone down hill. Young people don't know much our history or heritage, and aren't being taught. Our political discourse is empty and shallow, and philosophy is not discussed or taught to any wide degree. There's a crisis indeed.
 
Feeding the Abscess said:
Meh, whores frequently had their children living with them in brothels, and Victorian era families had sex with their children in the room.
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You think that the children living in the brothel were used as props and part of the turn on? Cuz thats what is happening here. Also, think the victorian example is different as it was a natural living situation, not a photoshoot meant simply for gratification of others.
 
Stepping around the pro-life vs abortion issue.....Laws granting a woman sole right to abort a fetus without the fathers consent need to be repealed.

It took two to create the fetus and laws granting only one the right to kill it are the epitome of sexism.

Women fought for equal rights....Only now the rights are unequal.
 
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