Rand Paul: feds may have unfairly 'targeted' dad's supporters

allyinoh said:
This doesn't sound like something that would come out of the mouth of a RP supporter.

The Constitution grants Congress the power to coin money. It doesn't say, "Congress has the power to pass off their job to a group of private bankers..."
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The necessary and proper clause gives Congress the right to enact their powers however they deem necessary. This includes the Federal Reserve.
 
acstichter said:
In reading the search warrant against Liberty Dollar, I learned that they were minting 1 oz silver coins and selling them for a profit of at least $1.50 each to a distributor who turned around and sold them to the public for another nifty profit. However when silver prices approached the coin's retail cost, they bumped the value displayed on the coin to the next main denomination (say from $5 to $10 to $50) and decided to take a much higher profit on each coin.

So if someone bought 100 coins, each time they bartered one, they were throwing $5 or so out the window. Not sure what the appeal is to this. The math was quite startling.

Also, the investigation was a fair number of years ago. Like 2003 or something, so has nothing to do with Ron Paul.
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Hmm now the truth comes out.

At the beginning of the thread TRIGONX said this.....

Liberty Dollar never ever called them legal tender or called them coins, so why do you keep categorizing them as coins such as the Feds are trying to do?

Now in this post we get this.....

I learned that they were minting 1 oz silver coins and selling them for a profit...

And the law specifically says you can't do this. That should effectively end this debate.....
 
No you are the one that is 100% wrong they are not a government agency at all. Private bank is what they are. Please look that one up you will get tons of "blowback" by writing something that is 100% false.
 
Melissa said:
No you are the one that is 100% wrong they are not a government agency at all. Private bank is what they are. Please look that one up you will get tons of "blowback" by writing something that is 100% false.
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So many ways to show you that you are wrong. Where to start?

Oh yeah, if you want to get information on the federal reserve, where do you go?

www.federalreserve.gov

why the .gov?

Because they are a government agency.

But lets see how they were created shall we.....

The Federal Reserve was created on December 23, 1913, with the signing of the Federal Reserve Act by President Woodrow Wilson. The act had been drafted as House Resolution 7837 by Representative Carter Glass (D-VA), incoming chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee.

100% wrong you say? Prove it.
 
We all know that it costs absolutely nothing to mint metal into rounds and it costs nothing to melt metal and it also costs nothing to transport these rounds and it also costs nothing to operate a business. the costs must go somewhere....
 
Trigonx said:
We all know that it costs absolutely nothing to mint metal into rounds and it costs nothing to melt metal and it also costs nothing to transport these rounds and it also costs nothing to operate a business.
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Nice job avoiding the issue...... and this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I don't care how much it costs. I care if it's legal. And it isn't.
 
TrueFreedom said:
Nice job avoiding the issue...... and this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I don't care how much it costs. I care if it's legal. And it isn't.
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It has to do with your response to the person submitting the info on the search warrant. STOP BEING SO GOD DAMN IGNORANT, fucking look at both sides to the story instead of sticking to the only knowledge that you know and only care to know.
 
Melissa said:
I will use your same site to "prove it" They are not a government agency

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrbanks.htm#6
http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrbanks.htm#9
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Nothing in those two links proves they are a private bank as you call it. The first link you posted does say this though....

The Federal Reserve Banks, created by an act of Congress in 1913, are operated in the public interest rather than for profit or to benefit any private group.

But wait, i thought they weren't created by Congress and thus were not a government agency.....hmmmmm
 
wow did you not read it it even says even the employess are not government employees and ok I quit it says right on thier site they are not government agency and you have your mind set not sure why you are here.
 
UtahApocalypse said:
TrueFreedom is obviously a troll here.
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Again you haven't read this thread. I am not a troll, I am a Paul supporter and have been for a long time. I was talking earlier about the studies I have done into John Keynes economics and Mises and the Austrian free market thinkers. I however disagree with Ron's economic stances and this idea of people on this board of saying things that aren't true. A matter of fact, if I am not mistaken, I can find a video of RON himself saying the Fed was created by congress....doesn't he say that in that Freedom to Fascism movie?
 
Melissa said:
wow did you not read it it even says even the employess are not government employees and ok I quit it says right on thier site they are not government agency and you have your mind set not sure why you are here.
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Are you actually being serious here. It gets NO clearer than this....

Federal Reserve Banks were established by Congress as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrbanks.htm#9

Now what ground do you stand on again?
 
TrueFreedom said:
Again you haven't read this thread. I am not a troll, I am a Paul supporter and have been for a long time. I was talking earlier about the studies I have done into John Keynes economics and Mises and the Austrian free market thinkers. I however disagree with Ron's economic stances and this idea of people on this board of saying things that aren't true. A matter of fact, if I am not mistaken, I can find a video of RON himself saying the Fed was created by congress....doesn't he say that in that Freedom to Fascism movie?
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Show a video of anyone saying that the federal reserve is a US GOVERNMENT AGENCY. Give us proof it is an agency of the US. Its a huge misconception that it is an agency, when it really is not. If it were an agency the government could Audit them and see what the fuck is up. but they can't.
 
Trigonx said:
Show a video of anyone saying that the federal reserve is a US GOVERNMENT AGENCY. Give us proof it is an agency of the US. Its a huge misconception that it is an agency, when it really is not. If it were an agency the government could Audit them and see what the fuck is up. but they can't.
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Ok well I just watched the video and Ron says that the Congress has the right to oversight and audit of the Federal Reserve but ignores that responsibility. Therefore it is a government agency if Congress has the responsibility for oversight. If you want to say it's corrupt, fine, elect Congressmen to fix it. But don't lie and say it's not a government entity when I have given you fact after fact that says it is. Unless you can show me how the Federal Reserve Act is wrong, then you don't know what you are saying.....
 
Congressman Louis T. McFadden, was the Chairman of the House Committee on Banking and Currency from 1920–31

here is a speech by Louis T. McFadden

Louis T. McFadden's Speech In the House of Representatives 10 June 1932 http://www.afn.org/~govern/mcfadden_speech_1932.html

Let me put a few paragraphs here.


"Some people think the Federal Reserve banks are United States Government institutions. They are not Government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lenders. In that dark crew of financial pirates there are those who would cut a man's throat to get a dollar out of his pocket; there are those who send money into States to buy votes to control our legislation; and there are those who maintain international propaganda for the purpose of deceiving us and of wheedling us into the granting of new concessions which will permit them to cover up their past misdeeds and set again in motion their gigantic train of crime.
These twelve private credit monopolies were deceitfully and disloyally foisted upon this country by the bankers who came here from Europe and repaid us for our hospitality by undermining our American institutions. Those bankers took money out of this country to finance Japan in a war against Russia. They created a reign of terror in Russia with our money in order to help that war along. They instigated the separate peace between Germany and Russia and thus drove a wedge between the Allies in the World War. They financed Trotsky's passage from New York to Russia so that he might assist in the destruction of the Russian Empire. They fomented and instigated the Russian revolution and they placed a large fund of American dollars at Trotsky's disposal in one of their branch banks in Sweden so that through him Russian homes might be thoroughly broken up and Russian children flung far and wide from their natural protectors. They have since begun the breaking up of American homes and the dispersal of American children."



Let me remind you this is from 1932, so this is not something new to the people.
 
This is strange. It's not a for profit body but the FED member banks make 6 percent dividends? Huh? Lot's of double talk on that FAQ page.

FED FAQs said:
Commercial banks that are members of the Federal Reserve System hold stock in the Reserve Bank in their region, but they do not exercise control over the Reserve Bank or the Federal Reserve System. Holding stock in a regional Reserve Bank does not carry with it the kind of control and financial interest that holding publicly traded stock affords, and the stock may not be sold or traded. Member banks do, however, receive a fixed 6 percent dividend annually on their stock and elect six of the nine members of the Reserve Bank's board of directors.
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Better question is... WHERE does the 6 percent dividend come from? Any sort of dividend means there was a profit to be had. How does a government agency make a profit? Why does a private agency related to the government make a profit off the public?
 
Trigonx said:
Congressman Louis T. McFadden, was the Chairman of the House Committee on Banking and Currency from 1920–31

here is a speech by Louis T. McFadden

Louis T. McFadden's Speech In the House of Representatives 10 June 1932 http://www.afn.org/~govern/mcfadden_speech_1932.html

Let me put a few paragraphs here.


"Some people think the Federal Reserve banks are United States Government institutions. They are not Government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lenders. In that dark crew of financial pirates there are those who would cut a man's throat to get a dollar out of his pocket; there are those who send money into States to buy votes to control our legislation; and there are those who maintain international propaganda for the purpose of deceiving us and of wheedling us into the granting of new concessions which will permit them to cover up their past misdeeds and set again in motion their gigantic train of crime.
These twelve private credit monopolies were deceitfully and disloyally foisted upon this country by the bankers who came here from Europe and repaid us for our hospitality by undermining our American institutions. Those bankers took money out of this country to finance Japan in a war against Russia. They created a reign of terror in Russia with our money in order to help that war along. They instigated the separate peace between Germany and Russia and thus drove a wedge between the Allies in the World War. They financed Trotsky's passage from New York to Russia so that he might assist in the destruction of the Russian Empire. They fomented and instigated the Russian revolution and they placed a large fund of American dollars at Trotsky's disposal in one of their branch banks in Sweden so that through him Russian homes might be thoroughly broken up and Russian children flung far and wide from their natural protectors. They have since begun the breaking up of American homes and the dispersal of American children."



Let me remind you this is from 1932, so this is not something new to the people.
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Hmm, well lets take a look at Mr. McFadden and the accuracy of what he is saying here.....

Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal reserve banks. The Federal Reserve Board, a Government board, has cheated the Government of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt. The depredations and the iniquities of the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal reserve banks acting together have cost this country enough money to pay the national debt several times over. This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the people of the United States; has bankrupted itself, and has practically bankrupted our Government. It has done this through defects of the law under which it operates, through the maladministration of that law by the Federal Reserve Board and through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it (C.R. p. 12595).
Once the hyperbole and histrionics are deducted, there is little remaining of substance in the above quotation. McFadden makes the claim that the Federal Reserve had cost the federal government enough money to "pay the national debt several times over." Is he correct?

Disbursements of Federal Reserve Profits, 1914-1931 (millions)

Total Revenues $970.7
Net Expenses 363.3
-------
Profit 607.4


Paid as dividends 102.0
Payments to Treasury 147.1
Retained by Fed 358.3
Source: Annual Report, 1995, Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, pp. 298-99.


In this table we see that from 1914 to 1931 the Federal Reserve system collectively earned profits totalling $607 million. About $102 million was distributed to member banks as dividends, and about $147 million was paid to the Treasury as a "franchise tax." The Federal Reserve banks kept the remaining $359 million. The national debt in 1932 was $19.5 billion, so even if the Federal Reserve had been paying all its profits to the government during this time, it would have been enough to pay only 3 percent of the national debt -- a far cry from McFadden's "several times over." Moreover, the Federal Reserve's total revenues for the period were $971 million, so if the entirety of the System's revenues had gone straight to the Treasury, it still would not have been sufficient to make McFadden's claim even remotely accurate.

ouch, kinda hurts the credibility eh?
 
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