Rand Paul: feds may have unfairly 'targeted' dad's supporters

[JMann]

If I buy an arcade token and use it to buy a game in a machine am I not using that token as currency? The machine itself has a slot for a quarter and a token meaning they have equal purchasing power. I haven't been in an arcade in 20 years or so but I remember using the tokens as money daily.

 

[margomaps]

I dont see the debate, this is pretty clear.....

Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title [1] or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

"current money" -- what does that mean?

 

[TrueFreedom]

Hmm i got this from Liberty Dollars website. I thought they weren't calling it real money.....

The Liberty Dollar is the second-most popular and the fastest-growing currency in America! It's backed by gold and silver instead of being backed by national debt like our familiar US dollars. When you hold the Liberty Dollar, you own silver. When you give this REAL money to someone as payment, they now own silver.

 

[TrueFreedom]

they were not coins btw, they were medallions made of silver and gold and copper that people used to trade with as barter.

Hmm that quote from their website said it was real money and called it "currency"...

 

[Trigonx]

Hmm i got this from Liberty Dollars website. I thought they weren't calling it real money.....

The Liberty Dollar is the second-most popular and the fastest-growing currency in America! It's backed by gold and silver instead of being backed by national debt like our familiar US dollars. When you hold the Liberty Dollar, you own silver. When you give this REAL money to someone as payment, they now own silver.

I honestly don't understand your point.

What are you trying to tell people the people here who have already formed an opinion on this matter almost 2 weeks ago after hearing about it and then researching the information themselves to fully understand the situation?


You are mixing up REAL MONEY and "Legal tender"(what the US gov't calls the federal reserve note). I would hope gold and silver is real money since its a precious metal.

 

[runderwo]

Hmm that quote from their website said it was real money and called it "currency"...

It doesn't matter what they call it... as long as they don't use the buzzword legal tender.

 

[Trigonx]

TrueFreedom, do you really understand what really happened? The government STOLE gold and silver from its citizens for no reason other than competition. From what I've learned while living in this world as a human being that STEALING is wrong. Why do you keep trying to find fault with the liberty dollar??? They got shafted in this deal but you keep trying to defend the governments action by trying to say that Liberty Dollar was "legal tender." The only thing that would make the Liberty Dollar illegal was if they called it "legal tender" and they have NEVER once said that. So in conclusion you have no argument.

 

[margomaps]

I honestly don't understand your point.

His/her point might be simply to troll. Who knows? With a name like 'TrueFreedom', I'm surprised this individual is seemingly so eager to discredit Liberty Dollar. Very difficult to discern someone's true motivations online.

 

[TrueFreedom]

I honestly don't understand your point.

What are you trying to tell people the people here who have already formed an opinion on this matter almost 2 weeks ago after hearing about it and then researching the information themselves to fully understand the situation?


You are mixing up REAL MONEY and "Legal tender"(what the US gov't calls the federal reserve note). I would hope gold and silver is real money since its a precious metal.

I am showing you how it is against the law. You guys say, well they weren't trying to pass it off as real money, it was just a coin like a Chuck E. Cheese coin. Then I show you how it's real money and you say, oh well gold and silver is real money. No it isn't. Gold has no set worth. It is no different than copper or any other metal. Other than being shiny and making jewelry, Gold has no real value other than what we say it is worth......

 

[TrueFreedom]

His/her point might be simply to troll. Who knows? With a name like 'TrueFreedom', I'm surprised this individual is seemingly so eager to discredit Liberty Dollar. Very difficult to discern someone's true motivations online.

I figured I'd get the troll argument and I understand and expect it. But I am a Paul supporter who has seen first hand the type of garbage he has to deal with. I was with the supporters at the Texas Straw poll when we got locked out and cheated on the vote. I support him and no other candidate. But I disagree with his economic policy, not the cutting of spending, but the competition in currency, and I think this Gold is great idea is flawed. Plus I believe that a lot of the arguments that surround the Paul campaign unfortunately are unnecessary because they are wrong. Most of these come from the movie From Freedom to Fascism. And we need to know what the law says so we don't continue to throw these myths around.

 

[Trigonx]

I am showing you how it is against the law. You guys say, well they weren't trying to pass it off as real money, it was just a coin like a Chuck E. Cheese coin. Then I show you how it's real money and you say, oh well gold and silver is real money. No it isn't. Gold has no set worth. It is no different than copper or any other metal. Other than being shiny and making jewelry, Gold has no real value other than what we say it is worth......

Sigh.... i give up on you. You are missing the whole point. When people used liberty dollars both parties knew what it was and knew the value, and knew it wasn't legal tender, but they also knew it was not illegal to trade silver and gold. So tell me how trading gold and silver is ILLEGAL.(the whole point you are trying to make)

 

[TrueFreedom]

It is illegal because they are passing it off in the form of a coin, their website refers to it as real money and currency and the LAW says this......

Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title [1] or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.


Therefore it is illegal

 

[Trigonx]

Also, wtf are you smoking when you say gold has no real value other than what we say it is worth? Gold has always been a precious metal and ALWAYS valuable, the price fluctuates with the supply and demand, not by what we say its worth.

 

[TrueFreedom]

Also, wtf are you smoking when you say gold has no real value other than what we say it is worth? Gold has always been a precious metal and ALWAYS valuable, the price fluctuates with the supply and demand, not by what we say its worth.

I am smoking nothing. Other than being shiny and making jewelry what is the intrinsic value of gold?

 

[TrueFreedom]

These arguments are crazy. Lets get rid of Federal Reserve Notes and go back to using gold because there will be no inflation and the worth of the gold won't fluctuate. Oh really? So what happens when I find a goldmine across New Mexico and I want to dump a huge load of gold into the market? Well lets see, the more you have of something, the less the price. Just like with everything else. The only argument you can fall back on is trying to make people believe that gold is limited when you have no knowledge of how much gold is under the Earth. It's a fallacy. Just like if you increase paper dollars you have inflation and the value of the dollar decreases, the same if you have gold and someone dumps in a lot of gold, the value of gold will decrease. And also what are you going to do, limit the amount of currency to what we can back up with gold and silver? Good idea, so what will you do when the billionaires like Bill Gates decide to start hoarding their money?? This gold is great argument makes no economic sense.....

 

[Trigonx]

These arguments are crazy. Lets get rid of Federal Reserve Notes and go back to using gold because there will be no inflation and the worth of the gold won't fluctuate. Oh really? So what happens when I find a goldmine across New Mexico and I want to dump a huge load of gold into the market? Well lets see, the more you have of something, the less the price. Just like with everything else. The only argument you can fall back on is trying to make people believe that gold is limited when you have no knowledge of how much gold is under the Earth. It's a fallacy

its called competing currency. Understand that term and then i'll read all the crap you wrote above.

 

[McDermit]

Right but don't people try to pass Ron Paul coins off as actual money through the use of "bartering" just like the liberty dollar? That is what makes it different than a Chuck E. Cheese or commerative coin, they don't try to pass those off as actual money. I believe the law specifically mentions this......

Uh, when I was a kid, we used to trade arcade tokens as money. "I'll give you twelve Funny Bone Dollars for your Lunchable." So since we used them to barter as with money (including in the arcade) does that make the Funny Bone Dollars counterfeit and illegal?

I don't pass my Funny Bone Dollars off as real money, but I can use them in place of USD in the arcade and amongst my friends. Same with Liberty Dollars. No one is saying that they are US currency. But they can be accepted in place of USD amongst friends (or say.. "friendly merchants.") As far as I can see, they're the same situation.



Similarly, there is a community in the Berkshire, MA area that uses their on currency, BerkShares, in place of US Dollars. Banks there even exchange BerkShares for US Notes and vice versa. If Liberty Dollars are illegal, how are Berkshares not?
http://www.berkshares.org/localcurrency.htm#whatare

 

[TrueFreedom]

its called competing currency. Understand that term and then i'll read all the crap you wrote above.

I know a great deal about competing currency. And lets see, lets take this economic policy 1 step at a time....

1. Our economy is bad bc the Federal Reserve is printing too much money

2. Too much money equals inflation

3. Your plan.........leave the money we have now and then ADD MORE MONEY on the top in the form of competing currency. Do you not realize how bad of an economic policy this is? You think inflation sucks now.......

 

[Trigonx]

http://www.phoenixdollar.com/

Another competing currency that is legal. And look it has round things made of silver that look like coins.

 

[margomaps]

I am smoking nothing. Other than being shiny and making jewelry what is the intrinsic value of gold?

I can't tell whether you're asking a question you want answered, or you're dead-set on arguing.

If it's the former, you should know that gold has a number of properties that make it quite valuable in a variety of manufacturing and scientific applications: it's highly malleable, it's ductile (low tendency to break under stress), it's highly conductive of electricity (pretty much only silver is superior in this regard), and it's highly reflective of visible and infared light. It's also highly resistant to corrosion, and it's non-toxic.