Rand Paul Campaign Manager Signs Up With Marco Rubio

[specsaregood]

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[fcreature]

Guys, if you can go campaign for a supposedly libertarian candidate then jump to campaign for a total statist, you are a person of little or no principle and not a friend of liberty.

What makes you think that Rand's staffers were hired for their ideology in the first place? I don't know about you but I have hired people in the past and while it's nice for them to share similar world views as I, as long as they'll be good at their job and will be an asset to the team I don't give a shit what they think politically.

Also what you consider statist is not a reflection of what everyone else believes. It's quite possible that Chip believes Rubio is the best candidate left standing. Hell, I might even like Rubio more than Cruz at this point (not that I'll be voting for or supporting either). And Vincent Harris might believe in Cruz the most now. That's just reality.

I (probably?) work for a non-libertarian and that's irrelevant- my boss is not running a statist campaign... he is in the business of voluntarily selling products and services to thousands of individuals. If I go take a job at the Brookings Institution then you can call me a hypocrite.

I thought voting was voluntary... These candidates are not forcing anyone to vote for them. If the public votes for them, that's ultimately on them - not the staffers.

This whole "just trying to make a living" argument has the same foul odor of "just following orders" and other excuses used to explain working for evil causes.

Apples and oranges IMO. The issue of morality in this comparison isn't even close.

Listen, we'll never achieve anything politically if we burn every bridge we've ever had simply because most people don't pass the purity test that those of us here would like. We will never turn the masses to our beliefs. It's not gunna happen. The only way we succeed is by having the right messages at the right time with the right people and the right talent. Unfortunately that wasn't this time. Even when that happens, only a very small slice of our population will share our beliefs. But when that time comes we will need successful and talented campaign staff to get us there and surprisingly, some may not be libertarians.

 

[K466]

People need jobs folks. There aren't that many libertarian candidates to work for. Give them a break.

This is the original post I replied to. I doubt there was much consideration of staff ideology. And that's probably not a good thing at all. I'm certainly not going to give these operatives a break, call them good guys, etc. They are only friends of liberty when they get a paycheck for it. I say that makes you a sorry person. If you can't make money as a libertarian political operative you need to find an additional/alternate line of work rather than saying your only option is going to the dark side.

I thought voting was voluntary... These candidates are not forcing anyone to vote for them. If the public votes for them, that's ultimately on them - not the staffers.

You're trying to equate [trading with a non-libertarian running a non-political business] to [trading with a non-libertarian running an anti-libertarian business]. That makes no sense.

 

[groverblue]

Or McConnell?

Referring to Benton? Is Collins a Benton supporter?

 

[wmmonk]

Do you have any evidence (like campaign financial disclosures) that any of Rand's staff were being paid more than the going rate in the business?

...or are you just assuming that they were doing something unethical, because the campaign didn't go as well as you'd hoped?

Maybe referring to the campaign store that was run by a third party for profit? Rand saying, and Stafford, they were in it for the long run and he wasn't dropping out?
Maybe a reference to 2012?

 

[wmmonk]

Referring to Benton? Is Collins a Benton supporter?

Maybe this guy is just "holding his nose", like Benton? Maybe this is his 2020 plan for Rand?
Didn't Benton hold his nose to really benefit Rand in 2016? I'm not sure of the benefit but there is absolutely no way Collins can be a Benton supporter. Benton can't be a good guy according to Collins, because Benton worked for McConnell.

 

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

What a scumbag.

 

[Champ]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the campaign manager would have made the difference between what we saw happen and becoming President in 2016.

Ron Paul was the only anti-establishment candidate in 2008 in the GOP field. The Dems had Gravel and Kucinich, but they were eliminated early on. So RP ended up with nearly 100% of the anti-establishment vote that year. Ron Paul was also the only anti-establishment, running in 2012, in both political parties. He also received 90% of the anti-establishment vote that year, with maybe Gingrich taking a small share. Other people caught on to how effective this worked, took note, and implemented this in their plans for 2016.

In 2016, the anti-establishment vote was greatly diluted, with 3-4 candidates aggressively going for that audience. We know this now by seeing how much of the RP support in the counties he won have now gone to both Trump and Cruz. It's debatable whether these people truly are anti-establishment or not, but that's a debate left for another thread.

I think if Rand runs the same campaign in 2012, he does far far better than 5% in Iowa and being forced to drop out.