Rand opposes using military for deportations

[Swordsmyth]

First off it's illegal to use the military for law enforcement action. And for good reason.

Secondly, if they were to simply patrol the border, that isn't the worst idea. But to actively go round people up inside the US, that is actually IS indeed the worst idea. Yes the border needs to be secured. But you can't turn the US into a police state to go round people up.

1 there is a difference between enforcing domestic laws and repelling an invasion.
2 you don't know the law:

Unlike Caesar, Trump can cross the Rubicon legally. He need violate no sacred law. He has all of the legal power he needs to act and win. Congress has given it to him. All he needs to do is invoke the Insurrection Act.
Invoking the Insurrection Act

During the 2020 summer protests and riots, commentators on both the Left and Right argued about whether Trump would use the so-called Insurrection Act against the crowds. Strangely, no one seems to be considering the fact that Trump could use it now.

The history of the Insurrection Act dates back all the way to 1797, and the legislative record is so long and tortured that it’s woeful to contemplate. Suffice to say that in the 21st century, the Insurrection Act has been pleasantly re-titled “The Enforcement of the Laws to Restore Public Order Act” and codified in four sections of the US Code:

10 USC § 251 Federal Aid for State Governments

10 USC § 252 Use of Militia and Armed Forces to Enforce Federal Authority

10 USC § 253 Interference with State and Federal Law

10 USC § 254 Proclamation to Disperse

Of the four provisions, the most recent and the most powerful is 10 USC § 253, which was written in 2006. This is the one that liberal pundits always forget to mention when they blab about Posse Comitatus and governors. It reads:

The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it-

so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or

opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

That’s powerful language! Consider:

The authority is vested solely in the President. He does not need the invitation of state governors to intervene, nor does he need the approval of the Supreme Court. Older provisions of the Insurrection Act required either a governor or a judicial proceeding to authorize its use, but these limits were purposefully removed by Congress in § 253.

There is no time limit on the President’s activities. Older versions of the Insurrection Act limited the use of force to brief periods of time and then required legislative approval. Those limits, too, are also gone.

The President is allowed to use any means that he (and again, he needs no one else) considers necessary. This includes using the armed forces (which enables him to bypass the Posse Comitatus Act) and using the militia (which we’ll discuss in more detail below).

The President’s ability to use force isn’t restricted to actual rebellion or insurgency. He can act against merely unlawful combinations and conspiracies. To be clear: If the President decides that a conspiracy has deprived people of a right and believes that authorities fail or refuse to protect the right, he can send in the troops.

In blunt terms, Congress has given the power to President Trump to proclaim:

“I, President Trump, have determined that a conspiracy has deprived 70 million Americans of their right to vote and that the other authorities are refusing to protect this right. I therefore order the suppression of this conspiracy by any means necessary.”

More at: https://macris.substack.com/p/trump-at-the-rubicon

3 Removing invaders is not "creating a police state".

 

[Swordsmyth]

Personally, I don't care if they use stormtroopers to load illegal into railcars, just as long as they are removed.

But for some reason, we can't do this but every other country in the world gets a pass for doing essentially the same thing. Especially, Mexico.

No one ever makes mention of greasing up the pole, so to speak, that would make it difficult for illegals to stay.

Stiff penalties for employing them and cutting off all benefits, except for bologna sammiches and water for them in the detention camp and transportation back to where they came from. All entrants from Mexico or Canada should be returned there regardless of country of origin.

But no one in government or industry wants to solve this.

Trump is going to do all of it.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Reminds me of a comparison I recently made. There are those on the radical left right now that are hysterical about the potential for military going house to house to look for illegal immigrants. In fairness, I put the shoe on the other foot and tried to think of instances where "my side" has been afraid about government going house to house.

We often hyperbolically warn that the left would like to send military to go house to house to take our weapons. Is it an irrational fear? Didn't they actually do that after Hurricane Katrina?

Then there were Covid lockdowns. Was it police, military or both that a few times enforced stay at home lockdowns? IIRC, there were videos of them marching down residential streets, shooting pepper balls at people who didn't stay in their houses.

So, I can take a couple of things from that.

One, it's not an entirely irrational fear that troops (of some kind) could march down streets or go door to door.

Two, it's usually the leftist issues where troops (of some kind) are sent into the population.

Three, the left isn't stopped by precedent or law.
They only use them to protect things like their invasion and replacement plan.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Then you clearly hate freedom and the Constitution.

LOL

Quote the relevant part of the Constitution.

Because I can quote the parts that support it.

 

[Swordsmyth]

He just shredded the entire Bill of Rights with one single sentence and by "any means". I can't think of anything worse.

The BoR doesn't apply to foreign invaders, it never did and it never will.

 

[Swordsmyth]

LOL I don't give a damn what you say that you consider me, Marxist. Because I know that you know it's a lie. It's what you do.

My response is for those reading who still take your clown act seriously.



To those reading. This is a great example of full on woke, marxist dialectical BS, straight from Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals.

Let's start with their border "strategy." Anyone with the weakest understanding of history knows that no society survived weak borders. PAF isn't stupid. He knows exactly what he's doing. And people like him are why things are screwed up.

These people tried to silence you by claiming if you wanted a secured border, you are a racist, a hater, and other crap. Then out of the other side of their mouth, they show their hatred for YOU and said Americans are lazy stupid and unamerican and we need a flood of immigrants. You have seen this many times. Yes dialectical thinking allows them to hold two opposing views simultaneously. They hate you, yet call you a hater. It's a crude tactic. That was Zippy's only card and it worked for a while.


Now we're dealing with Zippy 3.0s They all claim to be anarchists (I am not including real anarchists, who I respect. I am talking about these frauds.) These fake ones "considered" minarchists who wanted border security as neocons. When neocons have classically wanted open borders, like PAF. His pretending to be an anarchists is another part of marxist dialectics. They pretend to be one extreme and say that anyone outside of the extreme is a statist, neocon, etc. It is exactly the strategy of woke activists. If you ask if men in a dress should go in women's spaces, you are "considered" transphobic. If you question white fragility, you are racist. Depending upon their strategy, they claim to love gays, blacks, anarchists, etc, but deep inside you can tell they hate you. This is how they shut down conversations. $#@! 'em. I don't play that game. Nor should YOU!


They have no principles. They use principles as weapons and then discard them. This guy in particular shilled heavily for RFK Jr (now he denies it lol). When I said I admired RFK's honesty but could not vote for him because of his stance against the 2nd Amendment, this guy called me a statist saying that my stance on the second Amendment meant that I believed that my liberties came from government decree. He's spoken against the Constitution and the Bill of Rights many times in the past, when it was convenient. Now in this thread he claims to be its champion? LOL

Being called or considered a neocon, a statist, etc doesn't bother me. People throw around names in their passion. However, when someone is deceptive, using strategies straight out of "Rules for Radicals," screw 'em. They deserve no respect nor do they deserve to be taken seriously.

Am I being a hypocrite calling them Marxists? No. They hold no principles. They "debate" and behave in the manner that I described. They just want to bring it all down. And they have done a very good job at bringing this country down so far. Yes, America was a great country at one time, until we gave a damn what these marxists "CONSIDERED!"

Well said.

He's also like Ray Epps, he tries to get liberty lovers to spit in the face of the tyrant all alone in the public square so they can get their face stomped in by the jackboot and serve as an example to the herd, just like most other "anarchists".

 

[Swordsmyth]

Government created the problem, there ain't no way in he|| I'm looking for a "solution" from them.

Government created the problem by refusing to do its duty to protect the citizens from a foreign invasion.
So, unless you are trying to organize illegal citizen led pogroms to drive out the invaders (and you would be engaged in entrapment if you did) then government doing its duty to remove the invaders is the only solution.

 

[PAF]

Government created the problem by refusing to do its duty to protect the citizens from a foreign invasion.
So, unless you are trying to organize illegal citizen led pogroms to drive out the invaders (and you would be engaged in entrapment if you did) then government doing its duty to remove the invaders is the only solution.

I don't even know why I'm responding again, but here goes: how can it be an "invasion" when the government itself is demanding government issued cards be forced upon them with all kind of perks? If it was me, I'd let them come and go less the tax payer anything.

Don't blame me, I didn't vote for your politicians - you did. And remember, legal/illegal, you guys came up with that too which enables it. I prefer to keep them undocumented so that they don't hold up the line.

 

[Swordsmyth]

I don't even know why I'm responding again, but here goes: how can it be an "invasion" when the government itself is demanding government issued cards be forced upon them with all kind of perks? If it was me, I'd let them come and go less the tax payer anything.

Don't blame me, I didn't vote for your politicians - you did. And remember, legal/illegal, you guys came up with that too which enables it. I prefer to keep them undocumented so that they don't hold up the line.

It's an invasion because hostile foreigners are entering to loot, murder, and destroy.
The fact that traitors facilitate it doesn't change that.

And nobody here believes you didn't vote D in every election ever.

 

[PAF]

It's an invasion because hostile foreigners are entering to loot, murder, and destroy.
The fact that traitors facilitate it doesn't change that.

And nobody here believes you didn't vote D in every election ever.

Yeah yeah ok

Here's the difference between me and you: I survive quite easily and happily without any government reliance or "help". You on the other hand couldn't survive a day without it.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Yeah yeah ok

Here's the difference between me and you: I survive quite easily and happily without any government reliance or "help". You on the other hand couldn't survive a day without it.

LOL

Say hi to Ray Epps at the reunion.

 

[PAF]

LOL

Say hi to Ray Epps at the reunion.

Who in the he|| is Ray Epps? Not I that I care if it's coming from you. But, send my regards of kiss my @ss to Peter Thiel/Elon Musk the next time you check in.

Edit: And Miriam Adelson too. And the rest of his "Drain the Swamp" Cabinet.

 

[jmdrake]

You are again conflating hispanics who have been here for many generations, legal immigrants, and illegal migrants.

No I'm not. [MENTION=40029]PAF[/MENTION] made the point about immigrants, not illegals. And a town with 97% Hispanics most likely has a lot of first generation migrants. Every immigrant community had a first generation. Culturally Latinos and Muslims are more conservative than white people who have been here many generations. Those are the people destroying American culture. YOUR people.

 

[jmdrake]

LOL

Say hi to Ray Epps at the reunion.

Ray Epps is a WHITE PERSON who's family has been here many generations.

 

[jmdrake]

There's a whole thread full of evidence, only some of which was refuted, the rest stands ignored or lied about by you.

All of the "evidence" in that thread has been debunked. The Bible talks about a dog who returns to its own vomit. You eat up debunked stories, like the white guy that ate kidnapped the cat that your side said was Haitian, and regurtigate them hoping nobody notices.

 

[Swordsmyth]

All of the "evidence" in that thread has been debunked. The Bible talks about a dog who returns to its own vomit. You eat up debunked stories, like the white guy that ate kidnapped the cat that your side said was Haitian, and regurtigate them hoping nobody notices.

No, it hasn't all been debunked.

Repeating that lie won't make it true.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Ray Epps is a WHITE PERSON who's family has been here many generations.

And?

I guess you just want to show that you are the racist who drags race into everything.
Your only game now is "Native whites bad, POC and migrants good."
You belong at DU.

 

[Swordsmyth]

No I'm not. @PAF made the point about immigrants, not illegals. And a town with 97% Hispanics most likely has a lot of first generation migrants. Every immigrant community had a first generation. Culturally Latinos and Muslims are more conservative than white people who have been here many generations. Those are the people destroying American culture. YOUR people.

You do know the latinos lived in Texas before whites and that they joined the Texican rebellion and never left, right?
Culturally Latinos and Muslims have been far more communist and criminal than whites, some of them are starting to wake up and that's a good thing.

And it's primarily European immigrants or few generational residents supported by minorities that have been destroying American culture, this isn't about race, no matter how much you want to make it about race, it's about good vs. evil, the fact that minorities have disproportionately voted for the side of evil so far is a sad cultural mistake on their part, immigrants from much worse cultures aren't a racial issue either, they're a cultural issue.
If we want to pick out a racial (to please you) or cultural group primarily responsible it is Jews, mostly the secular ones but not exclusively so, and they vote overwhelmingly Democrat along with the minorities, immigrants, and migrant invaders.

Your Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender game won't work.

 

[jmdrake]

No, it hasn't all been debunked.

Repeating that lie won't make it true.

Funny but repeating a lie hoping to make it true is what YOU DO!! The latest example is when you lied and claimed I was using a different link than The Epoch Times regarding the supposed extra 23,000 votes. You persisted in that lie until I took the "https" out of your own post to prove once and for all that the links were the same. Then, rather than saying "Oh my bad! You were right!" you just pivoted to a new claim. That's what you do. You lie, you repeat your lies over and over again hoping to get away with your lies, and then when you get caught in your lies so bad that you can't keep claiming they are true you pivot to a new lie, and then sometimes later you come back to the old lie hoping nobody notices.

And?

I guess you just want to show that you are the racist who drags race into everything.
Your only game now is "Native whites bad, POC and migrants good."
You belong at DU.

You're the one making immigration about race claiming certain groups culture are incompatible with the U.S.

You do know the latinos lived in Texas before whites and that they joined the Texican rebellion and never left, right?
Culturally Latinos and Muslims have been far more communist and criminal than whites, some of them are starting to wake up and that's a good thing.

LOL. You realize you're proving your own racism right? Yes. Latinos, and there are white Latinos despite your ignorance to that fact, lived in Texas before Anglo Saxons. And the Latinos living in the Texas border town that voted 75% for Trump are culturally closer to their cousins living in Mexico than they are to you. You're culturally closer to the people doing drag queen story hour. Come to think of it, Rudy Giuliani did that drag queen skit with Donald Trump. JD Vance did drag once too.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Funny but repeating a lie hoping to make it true is what YOU DO!! The latest example is when you lied and claimed I was using a different link than The Epoch Times regarding the supposed extra 23,000 votes. You persisted in that lie until I took the "https" out of your own post to prove once and for all that the links were the same. Then, rather than saying "Oh my bad! You were right!" you just pivoted to a new claim. That's what you do. You lie, you repeat your lies over and over again hoping to get away with your lies, and then when you get caught in your lies so bad that you can't keep claiming they are true you pivot to a new lie, and then sometimes later you come back to the old lie hoping nobody notices.

I didn't say you were using a different link, I said that there were two different sources used in different articles I posted, you are just making things up.
Just like you made up the claim (or took it from the MSM) that all the evidence on that thread had been debunked.

You're the one making immigration about race claiming certain groups culture are incompatible with the U.S.

See, you can't differentiate race and culture.
Certain cultures ARE incompatible with America.
I never made it about race, but you do every time.

LOL. You realize you're proving your own racism right? Yes. Latinos, and there are white Latinos despite your ignorance to that fact, lived in Texas before Anglo Saxons. And the Latinos living in the Texas border town that voted 75% for Trump are culturally closer to their cousins living in Mexico than they are to you. You're culturally closer to the people doing drag queen story hour. Come to think of it, Rudy Giuliani did that drag queen skit with Donald Trump. JD Vance did drag once too.

Deranged nonsense on your part.
A bunch of bald assertions flying in the face of the historical voting patterns and the cultures of the foreigners you are so eager to replace us with.

You pick at a tiny minority of American "elites" and try to tar all whites with them while ignoring the minorities, immigrants, and invading migrants supporting that tiny minority and the party that is most blatantly supportive of it.
Trump is merely the best option we have, he's hardly a true representative of white conservatives at the grass roots.

You aren't this stupid so it must be malicious.