Rand-hater Santorum heavily considering 2016 presidential run

[Christian Liberty]

@TC- How could they force the states to do this? Couldn't they just nullify it? How much force would you be willing to use to ensure they don't do that? The bottom line is that if the Feds don't use any force either way, its a state decision, whatever the laws say...

 

[compromise]

I don't know if he's really a threat or not, but don't forget to mention to any Baptist types that he's Catholic--apparently Baptists* generally do not like the Catholic church and think Catholics are pawns of the evil pope. Sorta like what Petar thinks.

*I'm referring to "white" Baptist churches, I've known plenty of black Baptists and never got the impression that they had any opinion on the Catholic church.

Blacks...voting in GOP primaries?

 

[JCDenton0451]

According to 2012 exit poll 71% of voters in New Hampshire believe that abortion should be legal in all or most cases. There is no way a hardline pro-life candidate can win this state in the general election.

If Rand allows Santorum to push himself on social issues, he will lose the primary too.

In Virginia, 63% of voters support abortion. Obama winning this state twice was no fluke.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/06/exit-polls-abortion-as-an-election-issue/

 

[Christian Liberty]

Yeah, I know, but it's just his recent rhetoric that I disagree with, like the "thousands of exceptions for abortion" and other similar statements. Having Santorum in the race will hopefully keep Rand from saying those kind of things.

I think what he meant by "Thousands of exceptions" were thousands of individual cases where the mother's life is in danger. But yeah, I get your point. I still seriously don't want Rand being manipulated by Rick Santorum. If Santorum can influence him, don't you wonder if the neocon establishment will be able to later on?

Honestly, if I were Rand I'd just hammer Santorum's pro-choice record (Voting for Planned Parenthood) and leave it at that.

Wow... I'm starting to sound like I'm pro-abortion. You know I'm not. I want it banned, and I want it punished as murder. But I don't want the Feds anywhere near it. If the Feds take this one, they WILL find a way to use it to make a police state or do some other horrible thing. I don't think the Feds have the moral authority to kill a fly, much less do anything like this.

I'd sooner ask a random German to execute the murderers and rapists of 1941 than ask Adolf Hitler to do it. Seriously, I get why Iran calls us "The Great Satan" and it doesn't have one thing to do with our state governments.

The less our Federal Government is doing, the better. I'm not going to give them jurisdiction over anything, even for a good purpose.

The most recent polls show that Americans are becoming more pro life. The most recent Gallup poll showed that 58% of Americans either think that abortion should always be illegal or should be illegal most of the time.

IIRC when you break the question down by trimester its weird... something like only a quarter of Americans actually think life should be defended from conception, but an additional 50% or so believe it should be defended from the beginning of the second trimester. I don't agree with them, of course, but in theory, banning second trimester abortion really should be a walk in the park, if it weren't for the doggone Roe v Wade.

I don't honestly think life from conception will ever happen, as much as it should. Even Mississippi couldn't get it done.

 

[erowe1]

According to 2012 exit poll 71% of voters in New Hampshire believe that abortion should be legal in all or most cases. There is no way a hardline pro-life candidate can win this state in the general election.

If Rand allows Santorum to push himself on social issues, he will lose the primary too.

In Virginia, 63% of voters support abortion. Obama winning this state twice was no fluke.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/06/exit-polls-abortion-as-an-election-issue/

Notice how they report that data in a way that deliberately favors the pro-abortion side.

They put together "all or most cases" as one category, instead of separately reporting how many think it should be legal in all cases (like it is now), and how many think it should only be legal in most cases. Then when they report the pro-life side, they only mention the number who think it should be illegal in all cases.

They also don't link to the actual unedited poll data.

That poll seems to confirm others that most voters in those states would favor overturning Roe v. Wade, which makes abortion legal in all cases.

 

[JCDenton0451]

The poll wasn't asking about Roe vs Wade, they were asking about abortion. Overwhelming majorities in swing states oppose a total ban on abortion - that's pretty clear. Given these numbers it's actually quite surprising that GOP has managed to remain competitive in VA and NH. Lots of people who vote GOP must be holding their noses.

If you look at those who take fundamentalist view, that abortion must be completely illegal with no exceptions for rape and incest, that's roughly 20% of the population nationwide.

And this is currently Rand Paul's position.

 

[Peace&Freedom]

And the pro-choice hardline view, that the unborn has zero percent rights, effectively the current legal situation, is NOT "fundamentalist?" How come there are a hundred polls that include pro-choice tilted questioning of supposed pro-life absolutism, but almost none bringing up pro-choice absolutism? Hmmm?

If the emphasis is placed on the fact that most people, in most states, oppose legal abortion under most circumstances, instead of letting pro-choicers drive the issue based on the hard cases, Rand can win on this issue easily.

 

[supermario21]

The bottom line is that a majority of people in recent polls believe that abortion should be illegal in most cases, with the lone exceptions being rape, incest, and life of the mother. That position is closer to the average GOP position rather than the nearly restrictionless abortion platform of Democrats.

 

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Yep. A lot of people blamed the "Santorum media surge" (including myself at the time), but if we're really honest, that surge was the result of Santorum practically running for Governor of Iowa despite barely any resources. Ron had millions and an enthusiastic base at his disposal, yet he kept with a modest educational campaign which yielded him a close 3rd place.

Nope, nope. You're wrong. Santorum spent almost all of 2011, from April of that year till about mid-to-late December, sputtering around at 1%-2%, both nationally and in Iowa. Then CNN put out this really fake poll, a poll PPP tweeted was flawed and not accurate, showing Santorum magically at 15% in Iowa. At that point, all the media started talking about Santorum, pumping him up as surging and a great candidate for Iowa's Republican Christians, etc., and it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Santorum won Iowa only because of that last-ten day media onslaught of cheerleading him on. Santorum got over a week of wall-to-wall free advertising from the media. Why they did that, I don't know. Maybe Romney/Paul was boring to them. But make no mistake, Santorum's Iowa win (until Ron Paul actually won it, though Santorum and Romney both got the Iowa propaganda win) was a media creation: he didn't do anything different in December 2011 than he had the previous eight months, so why else did he rise from 2% land?

 

[RonPaulFanInGA]

According to 2012 exit poll 71% of voters in New Hampshire believe that abortion should be legal in all or most cases. There is no way a hardline pro-life candidate can win this state in the general election.

If Rand allows Santorum to push himself on social issues, he will lose the primary too.

In Virginia, 63% of voters support abortion. Obama winning this state twice was no fluke.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/06/exit-polls-abortion-as-an-election-issue/

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/01/22/roe-at-40-polling-shows-americans-are-pro-life-on-abortion/

Nationally, most Americans are pro-life. In a GOP primary, it's overwhelming. Outspoken campaigning on legalized abortion is not going to win anyone the Republican presidential nomination.

 

[Brett85]

@TC- How could they force the states to do this? Couldn't they just nullify it? How much force would you be willing to use to ensure they don't do that? The bottom line is that if the Feds don't use any force either way, its a state decision, whatever the laws say...

I think the Supreme Court would enforce it, just like the Supreme Court forces the states to enforce the 14th amendment.

 

[Brett85]

It would make abortion illegal in New Hampshire and Virginia, that's what I had in mind. No chance of winning these states with this kind of platform.

I've never seen any poll that shows abortion as a top issue among voters.

 

[Brett85]

I don't agree with them, of course, but in theory, banning second trimester abortion really should be a walk in the park, if it weren't for the doggone Roe v Wade.

I don't honestly think life from conception will ever happen, as much as it should. Even Mississippi couldn't get it done.

Some of these personhood laws are flawed in that they don't mention an exception for the life of the mother and could be interpreted as banning emergency contraception like the Morning After Pill. That's why even many pro life voters in Mississippi voted against that Personhood law. I think Rand's bill has that same flaw and needs to be changed to make it clear that there would be an exception for the life of the mother and that it wouldn't ban any form of contraception.

 

[anaconda]

Probably despite the fact that Rand is evangelical of sorts and Santy is Catholic, it's the only reason this retread is still hanging around. We need to meme-slap this guy whenever you hear someone bring up his name on this. He's a phony socon plant to peel socon support away from Rand, splitting the conservative vote enough to allow the establishment choice of Bush, Christie or Rubio to run away with the primary. I was gonna take a shot at Dixie in general but I'll hold.

Rand will eat Frothy for lunch on the debate stage. Rand's got about 30 IQ points on Frothy.

 

[anaconda]

I hope he runs.

Agreed. Wiping out Frothy point by point on the debate stage is a great way to indict the rest of the moderates at the same time.

 

[Brett85]

According to 2012 exit poll 71% of voters in New Hampshire believe that abortion should be legal in all or most cases. There is no way a hardline pro-life candidate can win this state in the general election.

He doesn't need to. New Hampshire only has 4 electoral votes. He'll need to focus on the Midwest states that are more socially conservative.

 

[supermario21]

Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and to a lesser extent, PA. That is the trifecta the GOP could use to win in 2016. Still lots of white voters.

 

[Warlord]

Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and to a lesser extent, PA. That is the trifecta the GOP could use to win in 2016. Still lots of white voters.

Only Rand can win those. If the GOP doesn't nominate him they're going to lose.

 

[Brett85]

Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and to a lesser extent, PA. That is the trifecta the GOP could use to win in 2016. Still lots of white voters.

Yep, and I think even Minnesota is winnable with the right message. Like you said, lots of white voters.

 

[Brett85]

Only Rand can win those. If the GOP doesn't nominate him they're going to lose.

I agree, because these states tend to be support a less interventionist foreign policy. They want to take care of things here at home and not nation build overseas.