Rand at 2% in latest poll, Trump back on top

[r3volution 3.0]

There is no Rand suppression conspiracy.

I don't know what this could mean.

You think there's no connection between Rand's political views and his marginalization?

E.G. You think it's coincidence that FOX (which constantly promotes a hawkish narrative) mistreats the least hawkish candidate?

You don't think this is being planned by someone in the management of FOX, for political purposes (as opposed to simply ratings)?

 

[Jonderdonk]

I don't know what this could mean.

You think there's no connection between Rand's political views and his marginalization?

E.G. You think it's coincidence that FOX (which constantly promotes a hawkish narrative) mistreats the least hawkish candidate?

You don't think this is being planned by someone in the management of FOX, for political purposes (as opposed to simply ratings)?

On the contrary, Rand's marginalization IS due to his political views. Because his views are fringe ideas in the world of politics. You have to remember that the liberty movement is in its infantile stages. Rand is marginalized only because people who watch Fox News do not agree with half of his platform. Do you honestly think that MSM execs get together in the board room to plot how to keep the Pauls out of the White House? No, of course not, that's absurd. Our job is to keep educating people about the liberty movement so that our ideas become mainstream.

Given the massive amount of +Rep that my comments on this thread have been getting, it is evident that many people on this forum want you people to stop complaining and go control your own destinies in this election rather than being victims of some self-propagated narrative. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got some campaigning to do

 

[limequat]

On the contrary, Rand's marginalization IS due to his political views. Because his views are fringe ideas in the world of politics. You have to remember that the liberty movement is in its infantile stages. Rand is marginalized only because people who watch Fox News do not agree with half of his platform. Do you honestly think that MSM execs get together in the board room to plot how to keep the Pauls out of the White House? No, of course not, that's absurd. Our job is to keep educating people about the liberty movement so that our ideas become mainstream.

Given the massive amount of +Rep that my comments on this thread have been getting, it is evident that many people on this forum want you people to stop complaining and go control your own destinies in this election rather than being victims of some self-propagated narrative. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got some campaigning to do

I do think this. I don't know if you followed the 2008 and 2012 campaigns, but there were several instances where it was readily apparent that the MSM was actively trying to do just that. I remember one reporter being told on air that he/she could "hold" the Ron Paul footage, they didn't want it. Left out of polls, constantly smeared in the media, biased reporting (reporting 1st, 2nd, and 4th place when Ron got third for instance).

At one level the media is ratings driven. At another level there are parent companies and goverments agencies that have vested interests in maintaining the status quo. Consider GE. More than just lightbulbs, GE owns a controlling interest in NBC which is perhaps the largest media outlet. GE also collects billions in defense contracts from the fedgov. Or consider Rupert Murdoch of Newscorp - the second largest media conglomeration. He bills himself as a conservative, but held fundraisers for Hillary. He's also a strong supporter of Israel.

These are just a couple of examples of VERY powerful entities that would be seriously damaged by a Paul presidency. He will NOT get a fair shake and they ARE out to destroy him.

That doesn't mean that we give up though. It means we recognize the size and the capability of the beast that is squaring off against us.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

On the contrary, Rand's marginalization IS due to his political views. Because his views are fringe ideas in the world of politics. You have to remember that the liberty movement is in its infantile stages.

That's right.

Rand is marginalized only because people who watch Fox News do not agree with half of his platform.

You've got your causation backwards.

It's not that FOX is hawkish because the viewers are hawkish; rather, the viewers have been made hawkish by FOX, which is hawkish because its owner is.

The masses are ideology consumers, not ideology producers.

Intellectuals create ideology, the media promote it, and the masses absorb it: a top-down process.

For a textbook example, take a look at how public support for the initial invasion of Iraq in 2003 was manufactured.

(This doesn't mean that ordinary people, without control of the major organs of information dissemination, can never make a political difference, but it's an uphill battle)

Do you honestly think that MSM execs get together in the board room to plot how to keep the Pauls out of the White House? No, of course not, that's absurd.

Yes, of course they do. Why is that absurd?

Politics is nothing other than people of like mind getting together and plotting how to advance their agenda.

This is true of both grassroots activists and big monied interests, like owners of major media venues.

Our job is to keep educating people about the liberty movement so that our ideas become mainstream.

Given the massive amount of +Rep that my comments on this thread have been getting, it is evident that many people on this forum want you people to stop complaining and go control your own destinies in this election rather than being victims of some self-propagated narrative. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got some campaigning to do

I don't know why you'd think that denying the existence of organized resistance to libertarianism in high places is a prerequisite for effective educating/campaigning.

On the contrary, understanding how politics actually works is an asset if the goal is to affect political change: know thy enemy., right?

 

[jmdrake]

What a joke! Kasich, Christy and Huckabee all have more mentioned despite consistently trailing Rand in the polls.

 

[01000110]

Rand has been left out of at least a handful of polls on Fox that I've seen (while including those who are polling lower). That is not an accident, that is purposefully screwing him. So Fox at least has proactively plotted to fuck him over, I see no other explanation.

 

[bunklocoempire]

On the contrary, Rand's marginalization IS due to his political views. Because his views are fringe ideas in the world of politics. You have to remember that the liberty movement is in its infantile stages. Rand is marginalized only because people who watch Fox News do not agree with half of his platform. Do you honestly think that MSM execs get together in the board room to plot how to keep the Pauls out of the White House? No, of course not, that's absurd. Our job is to keep educating people about the liberty movement so that our ideas become mainstream.

Given the massive amount of +Rep that my comments on this thread have been getting, it is evident that many people on this forum want you people to stop complaining and go control your own destinies in this election rather than being victims of some self-propagated narrative. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got some campaigning to do

Nobody asked me but... lol re bolded-

Please consider, those folks that do not agree with half of Rand's platform actually live Rand's platform in their daily lives. I should know, I was one of them before Ron's message opened my eyes.

They get the idea that Rand's platform is "fringe" from somewhere. No?

As far as political conspiracy theories go, I don't have to secretly meet with fellow poker players to team up and drive one player from the poker table -the actions may appear like that, but the nature of the game is such that stuff like that happens regularly. Unwritten laws of conduct are everywhere one cares to look.

Can orchestrated 'games' occur? Hell yeah they can.

 

[nasaal]

Are Fox against the Paul's? Yea. That doesn't explain the rest of the polls where Paul has little-no traction. It is time to stop blaming everyone else. I'm sure as hell not supporting any of the other candidates, but Rand is a legitimate part of the problem with his campaign status. If you don't want to believe that, then fine.

 

[jonhowe]

Rand has a chance if, and only if, he wakes up in the debates. He needs his base (liberty minded folks, people here) excited if he wants them to be pounding the pavement for him.

He CAN do this. I don't know if I expect him to or not, but to act like there isn't TIME is wrong.

 

[Maltheus]

You can play to win or you can run an educational campaign like Ron. I wanted Ron to stay in as long as possible in order to spread the message. If Rand is going to shy away from that, then he should consider cutting his losses soon and focusing on the Senate. Attacking Trump has already cost him a lot of political capital with the grassroots. As has his association with McConnell. It'll take him a long time to repair that (if its even possible).

 

[Feelgood]

I swear we should rename these forums to Ground Hog's Day! Nothing but the exact same rehashed pie in the sky fodder we saw the last two election cycles. All of which turned out to be wrong. It's like living it all over again from '08 and '12. Granted I bought into the whole brokered convention in '08, getting enough delegates to make a difference, large showings of people at rallies, polls are all wrong, winning all the online polls by a land slide...I was looking forward to POTUS Ron Paul.

Didn't happen. Then it all started again for the '12 election cycle. Exact same crap. I was a little more reluctant but hopeful. Thinking well all the last 4 years have proven is Ron Paul was right and we really need him. Maybe the sheeple woke up? Nope! Same thing, GOP rigged and stole election.

Not going to fall for it again. With Rand's numbers the way they are, I don't see him going much beyond IA, even he makes it there. His funding is going to dry up. People will promote the hell out of his moneybombs, that will fail miserably by past standards, but will be heralded by the diehards here as having been a great achievement. In the end we end up with POTUS Billary Clinton.

Go ahead with the -rep, you know you want to. Truth is treason in the empire of lies.

I am hopeful that 2020 will be the year for the ophthalmologist President.

 

[CPUd]

I swear we should rename these forums to Ground Hog's Day! Nothing but the exact same rehashed pie in the sky fodder we saw the last two election cycles. All of which turned out to be wrong. It's like living it all over again from '08 and '12. Granted I bought into the whole brokered convention in '08, getting enough delegates to make a difference, large showings of people at rallies, polls are all wrong, winning all the online polls by a land slide...I was looking forward to POTUS Ron Paul.

Didn't happen. Then it all started again for the '12 election cycle. Exact same crap. I was a little more reluctant but hopeful. Thinking well all the last 4 years have proven is Ron Paul was right and we really need him. Maybe the sheeple woke up? Nope! Same thing, GOP rigged and stole election.

Not going to fall for it again. With Rand's numbers the way they are, I don't see him going much beyond IA, even he makes it there. His funding is going to dry up. People will promote the hell out of his moneybombs, that will fail miserably by past standards, but will be heralded by the diehards here as having been a great achievement. In the end we end up with POTUS Billary Clinton.

Go ahead with the -rep, you know you want to. Truth is treason in the empire of lies.

I am hopeful that 2020 will be the year for the ophthalmologist President.

Does this mean this is your last post in the Rand forum?

 

[RonPaulMall]

On the contrary, Rand's marginalization IS due to his political views. Because his views are fringe ideas in the world of politics. You have to remember that the liberty movement is in its infantile stages. Rand is marginalized only because people who watch Fox News do not agree with half of his platform.

That was true of Ron. But Rand's abysmal standing in the polls is almost entirely due to the one issue where the broke ranks with his father and adopted the elitist/mainstream view. Rand's problem isn't that he is viewed as "fringe". His problem is that conservatives see him as a Cuck and an RINO because of his support for amnesty and mass migration.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

...his support for amnesty and mass migration.

What specifically is your objection to Rand's immigration plan?

And what specifically is better, in your opinion, about Trump's plan?

 

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Rand's political strategy has been ineffective and uninspiring. Of course the media will ignore and marginalize him; that's why his strategy and execution has to be perfect. The media will always be against him, so he has to be that much better if he wants to have a chance at actually winning this thing. The campaign has totally failed to galvanize the liberty movement, nor has has his move toward the center attracted many mainstream conservatives.

Instead of doing what needs doing, he's trying to build a fantasy rainbow coalition for liberty that will never exist, and running around calling himself a "Detroit Republican". I don't put all the blame on Rand; I think his managers have utterly failed in capitalizing on what people like about him, but ultimately Rand is listening to them, so he has to take his share of the blame. Unless things change fast, this is already out of his reach.

 

[hells_unicorn]

What specifically is your objection to Rand's immigration plan?

And what specifically is better, in your opinion, about Trump's plan?

The thing that is better about Trump's plan is that it will be "Wonderful", after all, he says so. Why would Trump lie?

 

[Feelgood]

Does this mean this is your last post in the Rand forum?

Not till we get to the end of this movie. Someone level headed has to be around to help break the cycle.