Ranchers vs BLM Oregon this time

People do not stab themselves in the eye on purpose. Can a brainwashed person be held responsible for carrying out their programming? The brainwash may not have worked on you and me, but it's clearly worked on them. The guilty party is not the victim of the brainwash, but the perpetrators of it. And who is doing the brainwashing? The media? Are they the primary actor, are they complicit, or are they just the tool of the oligarchs?

Regardless, the idiots in the streets who oppose us are not the enemies, they are the victims. Just like in The Matrix, they are the very people we are trying to save, and yet we have to deal with them as though they were enemies. But they are not really the enemy. The enemies are the media interests which are brainwashing the people, and the oligarchs which control them. Focusing on the brainwash victims is useless and counterproductive since that will only reinforce the brainwash.

What we have to do is break down the brainwash. How to do that exactly I do not know, but what i do know is what we have been doing up to this point has not been effective.

As for myself, I would be inclined to learn the syntactic mechanism whereby the brainwash is operating, and break it down at the molecular level without trying to attack "FoxNews" and so on because this just creates a defensive reaction amongst the brainwashed.


A reliable way to make people believe in falsehoods is frequent repetition, because familiarity is not easily distinguished from truth. Authoritarian institutions and marketers have always known this fact.
Daniel Kahneman, Thinking, Fast and Slow


A new scientific SOCIAL truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.
- Max Planck

Repetition breeds habit.


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"Then it can be provisioned, sold and purchased and taxed as applicable."

Yeah to the corporations and rich man resort developers who will buy it all up. Who the hell do you think your kidding? Mom and pop ranchers can't afford what the Koch brothers and or Ted Turner will pay to states and counties to control that land. And if they could, whose to stop them from selling out if their cattle is wiped out by disease, drought, blizzards or they need money to pay the bills?

The bottom line is people didn't start getting pissed about federal control until new rules came along that dealt with the environment that ranchers didn't like. But that wasn't the BLM or FWS's fault. They just enforce what Congress or the Executive Branch comes up with. Just remember this, the amount of Federal land in the West is still the same as it was after Ronald Reagan was President, Bush I and Bush II and Republican controlled Congresses and Republican dominance of the Mountain States of Idaho, Utah and Wyoming. You think it a coincidence? The bottom line is the states and counties are not interested in becoming landlords and would sell their land off in heartbeat to the highest bidder to surplus their budgets. And if ranchers think they have it bad now, wait until their cattle trespass on Koch owned land and some cattle baron's land and armed guards force them off (just like in the Old West), not just the FBI who have to read them their Miranda Rights.

" with the BLM controlling monstrous swaths of land in the west?"

As opposed to say, a Chinese corporation with billions to spend as chump change to buy up American land.

This is just a bunch of "Bill Gates will buy up all the bread!" bullshit ...
 
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Yeah to the corporations and rich man resort developers who will buy it all up. Who the hell do you think your kidding? Mom and pop ranchers can't afford what the Koch brothers and or Ted Turner will pay to states and counties to control that land. And if they could, whose to stop them from selling out if their cattle is wiped out by disease, drought, blizzards or they need money to pay the bills?

The bottom line is people didn't start getting pissed about federal control until new rules came along that dealt with the environment that ranchers didn't like. But that wasn't the BLM or FWS's fault. They just enforce what Congress or the Executive Branch comes up with. Just remember this, the amount of Federal land in the West is still the same as it was after Ronald Reagan was President, Bush I and Bush II and Republican controlled Congresses and Republican dominance of the Mountain States of Idaho, Utah and Wyoming. You think it a coincidence? The bottom line is the states and counties are not interested in becoming landlords and would sell their land off in heartbeat to the highest bidder to surplus their budgets. And if ranchers think they have it bad now, wait until their cattle trespass on Koch owned land and some cattle baron's land and armed guards force them off (just like in the Old West), not just the FBI who have to read them their Miranda Rights.

It is called 'mission-creep' and it is very much the fault of these agencies, who create their own policies, rules, and publish their own regulations--which more often than not exceed the statutes granting them specific scope. The issue of the robber-barons is distinct to the issue of governmental despotism.

The federal government is not creating rules to deal with the environment, they are creating rules to overburden the small business that cannot compete under mounds of paperwork, cannot keep up with the ever changing and new rules being created and can get busted and fined for literally any ambiguously misapplied statute--meanwhile, those favored businesses are granted exemptions or are conveniently overlooked.

The longer this process continues, the tighter its grasp is felt and the more its pain is reckoned.
 
"not some unelected bureaucrat in DC"

Who are directed and watched over by the elected bureaucrats in D.C. including two U.S. Senators for each state in the West plus all their House members. All these over the BLM did occur to you to ask what Congress is doing to try and "reign" them in?

And where are they in all of this? They are rooting, they are tooting, they are hooting, for who, who, who? Justice? Ethics? Constituents? FBI? Bingo, Bobo! That is right, isn't it! The FBI. The F-B-I.
 
"They have made it abundantly clear that they can violate the will of the people with impunity and continue to get reelected."

And whose fault is that? The people get what they deserve until they wise up but you can't say at least they didn't have a chance to make the right decision.

Until what, they wise up and make a stand on federal lands, so then you, the media, their representatives, and the FBI can punch them down?
 
Where else should you protest, but public lands?

latest


bundy-free-speech-zones.jpg
 
What we have to do is break down the brainwash. How to do that exactly I do not know, but what i do know is what we have been doing up to this point has not been effective.

God, how I miss Aaron Russo. He was so, so good at rallying the troops, getting us to coordinate mass emails to the media, which forced them to respond. At the time, when he was alive, (circa '06 - '07) we were trying to get Fox to acknowledge Dr. Paul because they were completely ignoring him. We succeeded. After that, he started getting more news coverage and we finally started hearing more debates about "Constitutional law". Before that time, no pundit ever mentioned the Constitution. Ron changed all that.

Then there's stories like the battle of Athens, TN., where the local people overthrew their local government.

I think the solution lies somewhere within these two actions.
 
God, how I miss Aaron Russo. He was so, so good at rallying the troops, getting us to coordinate mass emails to the media, which forced them to respond. At the time, when he was alive, (circa '06 - '07) we were trying to get Fox to acknowledge Dr. Paul because they were completely ignoring him. We succeeded. After that, he started getting more news coverage and we finally started hearing more debates about "Constitutional law". Before that time, no pundit ever mentioned the Constitution. Ron changed all that.

Then there's stories like the battle of Athens, TN., where the local people overthrew their local government.

I think the solution lies somewhere within these two actions.
Needs both.
History shows that events like our revolution,, and the Battle of Athens are effective,, for a time.

unless people hold on to liberty they lose it.

any other resistance is met by nearly immediate violence.

Government violence is a hard reality. and ours is getting worse.
 
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So Santilli was the rat, or stooge, eh?

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-oregon-refuge-fbi-20160127-story.html

....

On Wednesday afternoon, U.S. Magistrate Judge Stacie F. Beckerman unsealed the government’s criminal complaint against two brothers, Ammon and Ryan Bundy, and Jon Ritzheimer, as well as five others arrested in connection with the occupation.

All stand accused of conspiring to use threats, intimidation or force to stop federal officers from doing their duty, a charge also used against tax protesters Edward and Elaine Brown, a New Hampshire couple who holed up in their home in 2007 and engaged in an armed standoff with federal agents for months. It eventually ended peacefully with their arrest.

A significant amount of the FBI’s information used to charge Ammon Bundy came from an activist named Pete Santilli, who was living inside the refuge and broadcasting live his conversations with fellow activists.

To demonstrate a conspiracy, the government has a lower burden than it would with similar charges, such as aiding and abetting, or solicitation. A conspiracy charge in federal court does not require the underlying offense to have taken place, so prosecutors can charge the defendants based on their statements, without proving they actually committed a crime.

That is where Santilli’s broadcasts proved so useful to the FBI.

“We’re continuing the stand at the Malheur National Wildlife Reserve,” Ammon Bundy told Santilli in a conversation on Jan. 2, the day the occupation began. “Let everybody know that.”

Later, Bundy was recorded telling Santilli, “Malheur, Malheur,” at which point, the FBI affidavit says, Santilli nods and then introduces Bundy, who gives a speech.

At one point in a video, Santilli’s cameraman is recording Bundy speaking to another activist when the cameraman seems to realize he shouldn’t be broadcasting it. The cameraman steps away and bumps into someone. “I was trying to get away from that conversation,” he explains.

....
 
That's not what "stooge" means. A stooge is an obedient subordinate lackey. If he were a stooge, then he'd have to be doing it on purpose.

Stooge:

pushover - someone who is easily taken advantage of
dupe, victim - a person who is tricked or swindled
 
I've now posted this in all Burns, Oregon threads.

OFFICIAL CALL TO ACTION

Update: January 29, 2016

In light of the events that have taken place in Harney County, Oregon over the last two days, the official Pacific Patriots Network statement is as follows:

PPN condemns the violent action taken by the Harney County Sheriff's Department along with the FBI in the shooting death of Mr. Lavoy Finicum.

PPN condemns the violent action taken by the Harney County Sheriff's Department along with the FBI in the execution of arrests associated with the people at the Malhuer National Wildlife Refuge occupation.

PPN condemns the DISHONEST tactics used to arrest Jason Patrick on January 28th. Mr. Patrick's safety, well being and emotional state were compromised when the FBI lied not only to Mr. Patrick but to PPN representatives trying to assist with the PEACEFUL removal of people at the MNWR. The FBI stated to Mr. Patrick and the PPN that he was “free to go.” Mr. Patrick walked 7 miles in sub freezing temperatures only to be arrested at the checkpoint north of the Narrows.

PPN condemns the false statements given to the public by the FBI, Harney County Sheriff's Department and the Harney County officials.

IN RESPONSE TO THESE EVENTS, PACIFIC PATRIOTS NETWORK

IS ISSUING A

CALL TO ACTION

Calling on any and all Americans to come to Burns, Oregon to come to the aid of the American people standing against these violent, malicious and deceitful tactics. Come stand together with other Americans, and express our Constitutional right to PEACEFULLY assemble and air our grievances.

This operation will demand the following:

- Immediate detention by Oregon State Police of the FBI special agent in charge along with all agents and LEO involved in the shooting death of Lavoy Finicum. A first hand eyewitness account presents reasonable cause for arrest while the investigation takes place.

- Immediate removal of all militarized FBI personnel and equipment from Harney County. All State and County Law Enforcement officers are not included and requested to stay and assist in the process to keep the peace.

- Immediate resignation of Judge Steve Grasty, Sheriff David Ward, County commissioner Pete Runnels, and County commissioner Dan Nichols.

In order to successfully accomplish our mission, we will need any and all Americans to PEACEFULLY assemble within Burns, Oregon immediately. The success of this mission depends fully on the number of people that will come to PEACEFULLY stand and demand the items above be initiated.

A letter of intent will be legally served on the FBI special agent in charge at the time of Lavoy Finicum's death, Judge Steven Grasty, Sheriff David Ward, Dan Nichols and Pete Runnels by January 29th, 2016. We will request to escort the FBI presence out of Harney County, Oregon and once complete, the attention will return to the resignation of the County elected officials.

PPN is dedicated to a PEACEFUL operation. If you have any ill intent, please do not come. We do not need you. Please come prepared with civilian attire and adhere to the policy of no long guns within the community.

Please come self sufficient and able to care for yourself for the time you plan to stay. Donations arrive daily but they are not sustainable for a large or lengthy contingency.

We ask that you email us at [email protected] if and when you are planning to come and stand in Burns, Oregon
 
As far as I'm concerned, Burns, OR is a city predominantly populated with feckless, spineless, cowards who have no self-respect.

If I happen to travel that way in the future, I'm not stopping.

I might spit out the window, though.
 
Stooge:

pushover - someone who is easily taken advantage of
dupe, victim - a person who is tricked or swindled

No.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stooge

Stooge | Definition of Stooge by Merriam-Webster
Simple Definition of stooge
Popularity: Bottom 40% of words
: a weak or unimportant person who is controlled by a powerful person, organization, etc.
: a performer in a show who says and does foolish things that other performers make jokes about

Full Definition of stooge
1
a : one who plays a subordinate or compliant role to a principal
b : puppet 3
2
: straight man
3
: stool pigeon 1

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/stooge
stooge
See definition in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary
Syllabification: stooge
Pronunciation: /sto͞oj/
Definition of stooge in English:
noun

1 derogatory A person who serves merely to support or assist others, particularly in doing unpleasant work:
you fell for that helpless-female act and let her make you a stooge
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
SYNONYMS
2A performer whose act involves being the butt of a comedian’s jokes.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/stooge
Definition of “stooge” - English Dictionary

English
"stooge" in British English
See all translations
stooge
noun [C] UK US /stuːdʒ/ disapproving
a ​person who is ​forced or ​paid by someone in ​authority to do an ​unpleasant or ​secret ​job for them:
The ​newly ​appointed ​mayor is ​widely ​regarded as a ​government stooge.
› an ​actor in a ​funny show in the ​theatre or on ​television whose ​job is to ​allow the ​main ​actor to make him or her ​look ​silly
(Definition of stooge from the Cambridge Advanced Learners Dictionary & Thesaurus © Cambridge University Press)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stooge
stooge
[stooj]
Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
noun
1.
an entertainer who feeds lines to the main comedian and usually serves as the butt of his or her jokes.
2.
any underling, assistant, or accomplice.
verb (used without object), stooged, stooging.
3.
to act as a stooge.
Origin of stooge

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stooge
stooge (sto͞oj)
n.
1. The partner in a comedy team who feeds lines to the other comedian; a straight man.
2. One who allows oneself to be used for another's profit or advantage; a puppet.
3. Slang A stool pigeon.
intr.v. stooged, stoog·ing, stoog·es
To be a stooge or behave like one.
[Origin unknown.]
 
The mighty Will Grigg:

Tyranny, Defiance, and the Death of LaVoy Finicum
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2016/01/tyranny-defiance-and-death-of-lavoy.html
William Norman Grigg (28 January 2016)

LaVoy Finicum, who was shot at a roadblock by Oregon State Troopers and left to bleed to death in the snow, was not a violent criminal. He and his colleagues from the group calling itself Citizens for Constitutional Freedom were traveling to John Day, Oregon to organize political resistance to federal control over lands in the western United States.

After trying to run the roadblock, Finicum plowed his vehicle into a snowbank. He exited with his hands in the air, staggering in the snow before making a motion with his right hand that the FBI claims was an effort to grab a handgun. Another possibility is that Finicum, as some witnesses claim, was shot while his hands were raised in a posture of surrender, and that his subsequent movements were involuntary.

The carefully planned ambush, which displayed detailed intelligence regarding the plans of Finicum and his friends, was a joint operation between the FBI and the Oregon State Police. It was was not carried out in defense of persons or property, but to enforce the will of those in control of the Regime. Finicum, a 55-year-old rancher from Arizona, had become the subject of a federal warrant after renouncing his grazing contract with the Washington-based usurpers who control range lands in that state.

The night before he was killed on Oregon’s Highway 395 in an FBI-orchestrated ambush, Finicum had denounced the “escalation” he had seen on the part of government officials seeking to end the CCF’s occupation of the Malheur National Refuge. On several previous occasions Finicum – who had raised cattle and scores of foster children -- made it clear that he would rather die than spend the balance of his life immured in a government cage.

Reasonable people can contend that the occupation was an imprudent provocation. That criticism can apply with equal validity to many similarly imprudent acts carried out by idealistic but obnoxious men during the 1760s and early 1770s, and now celebrated (in sanitized form) by inmates of the government-operated school system. Many of the same people who numbly absorb annual recitations of Patrick Henry’s oration at the Old South Church will see Finicum as a fanatic who committed “suicide by cop,” rather than someone for whom “Give me liberty, or give me death” was a credo, rather than a cliché.

After being shot multiple times, Finicum fell on his back – but he didn’t die instantly. The video captured by an FBI surveillance aircraft showed him lifting his hand imploringly, and holding it up for several seconds before he lost consciousness.

None of the officers on the scene approached Finicum to disarm him and render medical assistance while there was still a chance to save his life. In the press conference that served as a debut for the FBI’s snuff film, Greg Bretzing, a spokesman for the American Cheka, explained that potentially life-saving aid was withheld while the officers took Ammon Bundy and four others into custody.

This emphasis on “force protection” reflects the wartime priorities of an occupying army. Fallen enemy combatants are not owed the same consideration as criminal suspects. Thus Finicum’s mortal remains were left sprawled on the frozen ground, in a posture eerily reminiscent of the body of Lakota Chief Bigfoot following the vengeful Seventh Cavalry’s massacre at Wounded Knee.

The federal statute under which Ammon Bundy and six other members of the CCF have been charged, 18 USC section 372, offers no protection whatsoever to the persons and property of U.S. citizens. That measure, enacted in 1861, is designed to protect “officers” of the federal government (including administrative personnel and other bureaucrats) as they prey upon the Regime’s subjects. It originally targeted actual and suspected sympathizers with the Confederacy, which in practice meant anybody who respected and defended the right of states to withdraw from the Union, even if motivated by an ignoble cause.

After the Confederacy was defeated and the once-voluntary Union was repurposed into a Soyuz, the same measure was frequently pressed into service during the thirteen-year military occupation of the South. A Justice Department memo written in 1977 noted that “although this provision is more than 100 years old, it has been infrequently used. Most recorded cases have involved internal revenue agents whose efforts to track down tax-evading operators of illegal stills met with resistance.”

Those anti-Bootlegger operations, significantly, continued for decades after the Regime ended the exercise in authoritarian derangement called alcohol prohibition: The 1977 memo cited three cases that occurred over the previous twelve years, the latest reaching the Supreme Court in 1971. The purpose of the memo, significantly, was to provide the FBI with a legal rationale for investigating and prosecuting, under the rubric of “conspiracy to impede federal officers,” acts that were not explicitly criminalized by other federal statutes.

The “conspiracy to impede” statute “did not even contain a requirement that an overt act be done in furtherance of the conspiracy before the conspiratorial conduct would become actionable,” pointed out Assistant Attorney General John M. Harmon. “The broad purpose of protecting the Federal presence as fully as possible supports a broad, rather than narrow, reading of the word `officer,’” he continued. Thus it was the Justice Department’s opinion that “the term `officer’… includes both permanent and temporary, full- and part-time officers and employees of the United States.”

Sixteen federal tax-consumers are usually stationed in the cluster of buildings at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. They act as a salient representing an unaccountable federal bureaucracy that has usurped local jurisdictions by seizing land that was not theirs by right or constitutional mandate. Indeed, the federal claim to the land in Harney County, Oregon rests entirely on illegal settlement by white ranchers in violation of treaty obligations with the Paiute Indians.

Unlike the peaceful protest by the CCF, the illegal occupation of what would become Harney County in the 1870s did involve violence and extensive property damage – and it was actively encouraged by the Feds as a way of consolidating control over territory to which they were not entitled. That act of land larceny was “legitimized” in the fashion described by St. Augustine. A “government,” he explained in The City of God, is simply a gang that "acquires territory, establishes a base, captures cities and subdues peoples," and then achieves legitimacy "not by the renouncing of aggression but by the attainment of impunity."

Although the CCF did express its intention to use force in self-defense, the “occupation” of the vacant headquarters buildings – which would be considered trespassing, if they were legitimately owned by a definable victim – was not achieved by violence. But because the action undermined the local franchise of a Regime claiming a universal monopoly on violence, it was treated as an act of terrorism.

In her sophomoric screed called a “criminal complaint,” FBI Special Agent (she is, to be certain, a very “special” agent) Katherine Armstrong uses quadruple hearsay to depict the “occupiers” as a nest of terrorists bent on wreaking bloody havoc in Harney County. After the “occupation” of the refuge began, “BLM was notified … by a Harney County Sheriff’s Officer that a source informed him that the group … had explosives, night vision goggles, and weapons and that if they didn’t get the fight they wanted out there they would bring the fight to town.”

None of this was true, of course, and the conveniently anonymous “source” is hidden beneath redundant layers of official deniability. The only “fight” conducted by the CCF was a quixotic campaign “to restore and defend the Constitution,” as Armstrong’s criminal complaint observes. This kind of seditious talk was enough to cause Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward, who displayed canine docility in doing the bidding of his federal masters, to irrigate his skivvies.

The CCF, quavered Ward in a January 27 press conference, “have chosen to threaten and intimidate the America they profess to love.” No being in whom we can find even a faint flicker of rationality could genuinely believe that anybody -- let alone the entire country -- was threatened and intimidated by the “occupiers.” But people whose position in society depends on the threat and exercise of lethal violence are intimidated by those who are prepared to call their bluff.

This, more than anything else, explains why LaVoy Finicum was left to die in the snow while his killers hurled flash-bang grenades at the terrified survivors in his vehicle. State-inflicted death is the last argument of tyrants, particularly those who fear that defiance may become contagious.
 

As you pointed out, there are many definitions of the word, and whether he was unwittingly tricked, or a paid accomplice, in either regard he can correctly be defined as being a stooge. Some may even argue he was part of a comedy routine.

So yes.
 
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