Ranchers vs BLM Oregon this time

[youngbuck]

This OK sitrep explains why there were so many Fed vehicles. Seems like it was a simple duty change out with a new crew coming in and the other heading out after turn over.

https://www.oathkeepers.org/malheur-sitrep-2200l-24-jan-2016/

That's some good news! The whole "200 vehicles" thing had me a bit worried.

 

[Weston White]

We're headed where the Montana Freemen have already been. (the longest FBI standoff ever... 81 days)


Trying to 'validate' the 'credentials' of a separate legal system aka 'Sovereign Citizen' movement.
The 'fringe' stigma is hopelessly embedded into the public perception...

Add to it unrecognized, unelected and self-appointed Judges like Bruce Doucette
declaring himself 'Superior' and presiding over it. (54 yo retired Computer repairman)

If you've ever tried to read through Sovereign Citizen posts..
even by 'believers'... you know what I'm talking about.
My eyes start to glaze over and I get brain freeze.
Proponents argue and disagree even amongst themselves.
It makes my head hurt just thinking that this is where all this effort is headed.

The 'Constitution' is just a 'launchpoint' for what will become a complete clusterf*ck. (Santilli's mania not withstanding)
I believe in the 'cause' but this is headed for the theatre of the absurd. (imo) Can't take it anymore.
Peace. out.

Just stick to the facts, and avoid all the sovereign and anarchist mumbo-jumbo. Otherwise, I have found it more productive to repeatedly slam your head into the wall.

 

[Weston White]

This OK sitrep explains why there were so many Fed vehicles. Seems like it was a simple duty change out with a new crew coming in and the other heading out after turn over.

* Note for future reference in FBI tactics, the FBI was staging in preparation to go tactical.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?489061-BREAKING-Shots-fired-Bundy-arrested

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I heard a rumor someone was killed. Anyone know anything about that?

 

[CPUd]

I heard a rumor someone was killed. Anyone know anything about that?

Lavoy Finicum.

 

[tod evans]

Teh Newz says;

Propaganda worded very carefully;

Oregon militia leader Ammon Bundy, 7 others arrested after gunfight kills 1, injures 1

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/2...rrested-after-gunfight-kills-1-injures-1.html

The leader of a group of armed protesters who had occupied a federal wildlife refuge in eastern Oregon for 24 days was arrested along with four others Tuesday after a traffic stop prompted gunfire that left one person dead and another injured.

The FBI and Oregon State Police arrested Ammon Bundy, 40, his brother Ryan, 43, Brian Cavalier, 44, Shawna Cox, 59, and Ryan Payne, 32, at around 4:25 p.m. local time on U.S. Highway 395.

Three other people were arrested separately. The FBI said Joseph O'Shaughnessy, 45, and Peter Santilli, 50, were arrested in the nearby town of Burns, Ore. Hours later, authorities said Jon Ritzheimer, 32, turned himself into the Peoria, Ariz. police department.

The FBI said all eight face a federal felony charge of conspiracy to impede officers of the United States from discharging their official duties through the use of force, intimidation or threats.

Neither the FBI nor Oregon State Police released details about what set off the gunfire at the traffic stop. One of those arrested, described only as a man, suffered non-life-threatening wounds and was treated at a hospital, the agencies said.

Another man "who was a subject of a federal probable cause arrest" was killed in the shootout. The Oregonian reported that the deceased man was 55-year-old Robert Finicum. The paper cited Finicum's daughter in making the identification. Authorities said no other information about the deceased would be released pending formal identification by the local medical examiner's office.

The protesters were heading to a public meeting in the town of John Day, about 70 miles north of Burns, to address local residents about the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge when the traffic stop took place, law enforcement officials told Fox News.

The Oregonian newspaper reported several hundred people had gathered at the John Day Senior Center on Tuesday evening and were told the "guest speakers" would not be appearing.

The Harney County Hospital in Burns was placed on lockdown out of concern that the protesters may cause a disturbance there.

Ammon Bundy's group, calling itself the Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, seized the refuge's headquarters on Jan. 2 in protest of what they viewed as onerous federal land restrictions, as well as the prison sentences of two local ranchers convicted of setting fires. Law enforcement officers converged on the wildlife refuge after the arrests and were expected to remain at the site throughout the night; it was unclear how many people, if any, remained in the buildings.

Ammon and Ryan Bundy are the sons of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, who was involved in a high-profile 2014 standoff with the government over grazing rights.

Many residents of Harney County, where the refuge is located, have been among those demanding that Bundy leave. Many sympathize with his criticism of federal land management policies of public lands but opposed the refuge takeover. They feared violence could erupt.

Ammon Bundy recently had begun traveling into Grant County to try to drum up more sympathy for his cause.

"I am pleased that the FBI has listened to the concerns of the local community and responded to the illegal activity occurring in Harney County by outside extremists," Sen. Jeff Merkley, D-Ore., said in a written statement. "The leaders of this group are now in custody and I hope that the remaining individuals occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge will peacefully surrender so this community can begin to heal the deep wounds that this illegal activity has created over the last month."

The state police said it would investigate the officer-involved shooting, with help from the Deschutes County Major Incident Team and the Harney County District Attorney's Office.

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

It sounds like unarmed peaceful protesters were stopped for a bogus "warrant" and then shot up by the goons...

 

[Badger Paul]

"Then it can be provisioned, sold and purchased and taxed as applicable. "

Yeah to the corporations and rich man resort developers who will buy it all up. Who the hell do you think your kidding? Mom and pop ranchers can't afford what the Koch brothers and or Ted Turner will pay to states and counties to control that land. And if they could, whose to stop them from selling out if their cattle is wiped out by disease, drought, blizzards or they need money to pay the bills?

The bottom line is people didn't start getting pissed about federal control until new rules came along that dealt with the environment that ranchers didn't like. But that wasn't the BLM or FWS's fault. They just enforce what Congress or the Executive Branch comes up with. Just remember this, the amount of Federal land in the West is still the same as it was after Ronald Reagan was President, Bush I and Bush II and Republican controlled Congresses and Republican dominance of the Mountain States of Idaho, Utah and Wyoming. You think it a coincidence? The bottom line is the states and counties are not interested in becoming landlords and would sell their land off in heartbeat to the highest bidder to surplus their budgets. And if ranchers think they have it bad now, wait until their cattle trespass on Koch owned land and some cattle baron's land and armed guards force them off (just like in the Old West), not just the FBI who have to read them their Miranda Rights.

 

[youngbuck]

"Then it can be provisioned, sold and purchased and taxed as applicable. "

Yeah to the corporations and rich man resort developers who will buy it all up. Who the hell do you think your kidding? Mom and pop ranchers can't afford what the Koch brothers and or Ted Turner will pay to states and counties to control that land. And if they could, whose to stop them from selling out if their cattle is wiped out by disease, drought, blizzards or they need money to pay the bills?

The bottom line is people didn't start getting pissed about federal control until new rules came along that dealt with the environment that ranchers didn't like. But that wasn't the BLM or FWS's fault. They just enforce what Congress or the Executive Branch comes up with. Just remember this, the amount of Federal land in the West is still the same as it was after Ronald Reagan was President, Bush I and Bush II and Republican controlled Congresses and Republican dominance of the Mountain States of Idaho, Utah and Wyoming. You think it a coincidence? The bottom line is the states and counties are not interested in becoming landlords and would sell their land off in heartbeat to the highest bidder to surplus their budgets. And if ranchers think they have it bad now, wait until their cattle trespass on Koch owned land and some cattle baron's land and armed guards force them off (just like in the Old West), not just the FBI who have to read them their Miranda Rights.

So are you saying you think should remain as it is now, with the BLM controlling monstrous swaths of land in the west? Because, umm, rancher's cattle might trespass on someone's land or be affected by disease, drought or blizzards? Help me understand you.

 

[Badger Paul]

" with the BLM controlling monstrous swaths of land in the west?"

As opposed to say, a Chinese corporation with billions to spend as chump change to buy up American land.

You act as though the BLM is its own entity. You're the one who owns it pal, you pay for it. You, me, everyone who pays taxes. It's a federal agency. Help me understand you if you please.

 

[Origanalist]

" with the BLM controlling monstrous swaths of land in the west?"

As opposed to say, a Chinese corporation with billions to spend as chump change to buy up American land.

You act as though the BLM is its own entity. You're the one who owns it pal, you pay for it. You, me, everyone who pays taxes. It's a federal agency. Help me understand you if you please.

Ha ha ha, you may pay for it but you sure as hell don't own it.

 

[pcosmar]

" with the BLM controlling monstrous swaths of land in the west?"

As opposed to say, a Chinese corporation with billions to spend as chump change to buy up American land.

No,
As opposed to it being controlled and used by the people that live there.. the state and county..

not some unelected bureaucrat in DC

 

[Badger Paul]

"not some unelected bureaucrat in DC"

Who are directed and watched over by the elected bureaucrats in D.C. including two U.S. Senators for each state in the West plus all their House members. All these over the BLM did occur to you to ask what Congress is doing to try and "reign" them in?

 

[GunnyFreedom]

"not some unelected bureaucrat in DC"

Who are directed and watched over by the elected bureaucrats in D.C. including two U.S. Senators for each state in the West plus all their House members. All these over the BLM did occur to you to ask what Congress is doing to try and "reign" them in?

If you think elections or the elected have anything whatsoever to do with the will of the people, then you have lost your mind. They have made it abundantly clear that they can violate the will of the people with impunity and continue to get reelected. Our government is broken. Utterly and completely broken.

 

[Badger Paul]

"They have made it abundantly clear that they can violate the will of the people with impunity and continue to get reelected."

And whose fault is that? The people get what they deserve until they wise up but you can't say at least they didn't have a chance to make the right decision.

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

" with the BLM controlling monstrous swaths of land in the west?"

As opposed to say, a Chinese corporation with billions to spend as chump change to buy up American land.

You act as though the BLM is its own entity. You're the one who owns it pal, you pay for it. You, me, everyone who pays taxes. It's a federal agency. Help me understand you if you please.

Goons! You are talking about goons! You don't "own" anything... The goons steal it from you and then make you think you have a "say" in how it's used (unless you disagree with them, of course)...

 

[youngbuck]

" with the BLM controlling monstrous swaths of land in the west?"

As opposed to say, a Chinese corporation with billions to spend as chump change to buy up American land.

You act as though the BLM is its own entity. You're the one who owns it pal, you pay for it. You, me, everyone who pays taxes. It's a federal agency. Help me understand you if you please.

I'm not your pal, you clueless dumbshit. You did nothing to actually explain your position, prick.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

"not some unelected bureaucrat in DC"

Who are directed and watched over by the elected bureaucrats in D.C. including two U.S. Senators for each state in the West plus all their House members. All these over the BLM did occur to you to ask what Congress is doing to try and "reign" them in?

Have you ever thought about being a productive member of society? You know, instead of some shit spewing tapeworm...

 

[kcchiefs6465]

"not some unelected bureaucrat in DC"

Who are directed and watched over by the elected bureaucrats in D.C. including two U.S. Senators for each state in the West plus all their House members. All these over the BLM did occur to you to ask what Congress is doing to try and "reign" them in?

Have you ever thought about being a productive member of society? You know, instead of some shit spewing tapeworm...

 

[GunnyFreedom]

"They have made it abundantly clear that they can violate the will of the people with impunity and continue to get reelected."

And whose fault is that? The people get what they deserve until they wise up but you can't say at least they didn't have a chance to make the right decision.

People do not stab themselves in the eye on purpose. Can a brainwashed person be held responsible for carrying out their programming? The brainwash may not have worked on you and me, but it's clearly worked on them. The guilty party is not the victim of the brainwash, but the perpetrators of it. And who is doing the brainwashing? The media? Are they the primary actor, are they complicit, or are they just the tool of the oligarchs?

Regardless, the idiots in the streets who oppose us are not the enemies, they are the victims. Just like in The Matrix, they are the very people we are trying to save, and yet we have to deal with them as though they were enemies. But they are not really the enemy. The enemies are the media interests which are brainwashing the people, and the oligarchs which control them. Focusing on the brainwash victims is useless and counterproductive since that will only reinforce the brainwash.

What we have to do is break down the brainwash. How to do that exactly I do not know, but what i do know is what we have been doing up to this point has not been effective.

As for myself, I would be inclined to learn the syntactic mechanism whereby the brainwash is operating, and break it down at the molecular level without trying to attack "FoxNews" and so on because this just creates a defensive reaction amongst the brainwashed.