Ranchers vs BLM Oregon this time

[GunnyFreedom]

So the militias should organize and have the heads of the militias get together for meetings to make decisions.

The militias are already organized, and they already have chains of command.

 

[JK/SEA]

You are the one who argued people were too cowardly to join.[/QUOTE

ok, if not a coward then what is the real excuse here....money, time, distance, weather, need a gold fringed invite?...

meh...looks like the militias are actually loyalists. Nothing wrong with that, but it does explain a few things. Don't need the main stream miltias anyway it appears...

 

[Schifference]

You don't get to walk in uninvited no matter how real the shit's gotten.



If you are wanted, go. If you are unwanted, don't. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?

Maybe they were really wanted but the Hammond's chose to not openly admit it. Had this not happened no one would know of their situation.

 

[Schifference]

The militias are already organized, and they already have chains of command.

So what if your militia in your state chooses to not take a stand in a particular instance but all the other militia's across the nation think a stand is necessary? What then?

 

[JK/SEA]

You don't get to walk in uninvited no matter how real the shit's gotten.



If you are wanted, go. If you are unwanted, don't. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?

well, you either give a shit or you don't, and like i said, you don't need an invite. You might, but if i was able, i would be down there with or without your 'permission'...

 

[Pericles]

I do not think it was intentional. I think Ammon Bundy sincerely means well, he's just sincerely wrong. If anything the fact that actual members of the actual militias are at each other's throats now should be an indication that this op has set the movement back.

When we see the reaction from the Feds, we will know what they think they learned from Bundy Ranch.

On the other side, we see the actions of those who think the win at Bundy ranch was due to the skill and determination of the militia leaders, and think that they can now do this repeatedly.

I'm in the minority that attribute the win at Bundy Ranch due to a freedom flash mob that showed up, and not the skill of the militias involved.

The risk is in finding out who learned the correct lesson from the incident.

 

[JK/SEA]

Maybe they were really wanted but the Hammond's chose to not openly admit it. Had this not happened no one would know of their situation.

Gunny lives too far away. Not his fault.

 

[AmberH]

Bottom line for me: I'm not going to sit back and criticize men who are doing what I lack the balls to do myself.

Maybe it will hurt, maybe it will help, but in the end, they are putting their lives on the line (literally) for what all of us talk about.

Agreed. If everyone waits for the perfect plan or perfect time then nothing is ever going to change.

 

[Pericles]

huh?...you telling me militia groups must stay in their own State, and can't mobilize at will without permission from other groups?...seems a bit authortarian, and doesn't live up to the spirit of liberty...

c'mon...really?

this is way more than just about the Hammonds....

Constitutionally, a militia could only operate out of state if called into the actual service of the United States. You might argue there is also provision if necessary to repel an invasion ....

When you are a militia that claims Constitutional protections, you are also bound by Constitutional restrictions.

 

[Pericles]

So the militias should organize and have the heads of the militias get together for meetings to make decisions.

Basic step in avoiding "friendly fire".

 

[nobody's_hero]

Constitutionally, a militia could only operate out of state if called into the actual service of the United States. You might argue there is also provision if necessary to repel an invasion ....

When you are a militia that claims Constitutional protections, you are also bound by Constitutional restrictions.

Indeed, historically the militia was actually much more organized and bound by, what I guess you could call 'red tape' for lack of a better word. I'm not trying to knock militias these days but there's gotta be more to it than Bubba wanting to get some drinking buddies together and naming a band of militia members after their favorite beer brand, which, I hate to say, seems to be basically what we're seeing in Oregon.

And there really should be at least some degree of organization between local sheriffs and militias (I'm not saying put the militia under the command of the sheriff). Right now, Sheriff Ward could step in and offer an independent investigation from the Feds and determine:

a) If the Hammonds have indeed had their constitutional rights violated by being re-sentenced for a sentence they've already served

b) If the Feds have issued an unlawful and sinister variation of a 'gag order' akin to blackmail for harsher sentencing if the Hammonds encourage protests

That would be enough, I think, for the militia to pack up and go home, and would at least de-escalate the situation, and those aren't unreasonable terms given the background information on this case that has circulated.

Those two issues really need to be examined, in my opinion, as they are the best defense the Hammonds have.

But frankly, if you don't have a sheriff with at least a basic understanding of how local government > federal government then you're all but wasting your time to try to start up a militia. My guess is that sheriff Ward is of the breed of local law enforcement that thinks his job is just to be the fingertips on the arm of the federal government, which we have far too many of in our nation.

 

[JK/SEA]

Constitutionally, a militia could only operate out of state if called into the actual service of the United States. You might argue there is also provision if necessary to repel an invasion ....

When you are a militia that claims Constitutional protections, you are also bound by Constitutional restrictions.

so the Bundy mission wasn't Constitutional...lots of wiggle room and subjective ideals at play...

 

[GunnyFreedom]

You are the one who argued people were too cowardly to join.

ok, if not a coward then what is the real excuse here....money, time, distance, weather, need a gold fringed invite?...

meh...looks like the militias are actually loyalists. Nothing wrong with that, but it does explain a few things. Don't need the main stream miltias anyway it appears...

Opposition to Ammon Bundy does not imply support for the BLM. Logic, you should try it.

 

[Valli6]

Yeah and instead of the headline being, "Hammons fight unjust sentencing" etc... the headline is "Armed Militia Takes Over Federal Building!" Driving the narrative that serves TPTB and away from the Hammons plight.

This is what's pissing me off. It's all going to devolve into a bunch "racism" "white people are blah blah blah " arguments, instead of covering the government's persecution of people they want to steal property from.

Look at the governments response when they decided to set fires on a warm, dry day after the local weather department advised against it, and ranchers begged them not to! The fire spread to several private properties destroying property, fences, and killing animals.

...After a U.S. Forest Service-ignited fire sickened and killed cattle while burning privately-owned grass, fences, hay and trees, and the agency refused to compensate them, Perkins County, South Dakota ranchers have now taken the next step and filed suit…

...The U.S. Department of Agriculture informed the ranchers in June of 2015 that it would accept no responsibility and cover no associated expenses from the April 2013 fire…
http://www.tsln.com/news/19891391-113/perkins-county-ranchers-file-suit-over-2013-blaze

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Maybe they were really wanted but the Hammond's chose to not openly admit it. Had this not happened no one would know of their situation.

You do not get to make that determination. If anybody gets to make that determination it is the militias in OREGON.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

So what if your militia in your state chooses to not take a stand in a particular instance but all the other militia's across the nation think a stand is necessary? What then?

Then the people of my State do not think the issue is important enough and the other states had best butt out of our sovereignty.

 

[JK/SEA]

Opposition to Ammon Bundy does not imply support for the BLM. Logic, you should try it.

Logic...thats a good one.

frankly, if you don't like the BLM, then why are so-called miltias doing everything they can to make sure this Hammond issue is swept under the rug?

 

[GunnyFreedom]

well, you either give a shit or you don't, and like i said, you don't need an invite. You might, but if i was able, i would be down there with or without your 'permission'...

Opposition to Ammon Bundy does not imply not giving a shit about the Hammonds. Logic, you should try it.

You tote a rifle on my property without my permission and you are going to find yourself missing half your grey matter.

 

[Deborah K]

I can't speak to what Gunny believes, but I believe that an out of state militia should at the very least run their plan by the local militias. At least have that simple courtesy.

Which begs the questions: Who are they? How does one "vet" a militia? Is there any historical background on said militia? Do we even know if they are 'legit'? Has it been established that they have a history, etc.?

 

[JK/SEA]

Then the people of my State do not think the issue is important enough and the other states had best butt out of our sovereignty.

even if the cancer is spreading...got it.