Raimondo calls Jon Stewart a Wimp, Wuss and Moral Coward. lol!

[KoldKut]

...

 

[diggronpaul]

You need to get off your high horse. Your attitude that anyone that will not discuss things on your terms and abase themselves in amazement at your ability to see thru the BS is unenlightened is wearing pretty thin.

I don't really give a shit if the bombs were dropped to inflict a psychic wound on planet Earth by a bunch of Satanists, if it was a power grab by a bunch of narcissitic war-mongers, or just to scare the crap out of the land-tenants/serfs of the world. I tend to think that there are aspects of all three and lots of other motives. But I at least honestly engage people that I am having discussions with rather than making asides to a non-existent audience that the people that you are discussing things with are obviously to stupid to comprehend your overwhelming superiority. (I have bolded the quote above in case you predictably call foul). You are obviously a bright guy. Your views and input are most welcome. But I am not going to sit back and be insulted (even if it was a throwaway insult directed at the forum in general) just because you have learned how to make a cogent point by point argument. And no, linking people to a few books and saying "When you have read these, then you will be enlightened enough to be worth talking to." does not equal making an argument.

Please tell me how I should go about getting forum posters to reframe if I see a discussion going in direction that misses major points.

When I tried this previously I am utterly dismissed. When I'm told to back-up my points, which require lots of backup (too much for a forum structure), I refer people to reading material and videos. But to date, it appears to me that no one has actually followed through and en engaged the material that I refer to.

Look, these are complicated issues. Of course. We know this. What I am repeatedly attempting to do it get push people toward a different frame, a different perspective... one that is usually radically different than they have been exposed to before. The typical reaction is to recoil.... which is a natural reaction at first. But I don't seem to see anything beyond the recoil, no questions, no ponding the perspective further, just moving right back into acceptable frames of thought.

How do we break ourselves of this... thinking within predefined boxes? That is what is important to me... and it should be important to all of us it is what will save us.

As far as intelligence, that is irrelevant. I've found it has no bearing whatsoever on ones ability to see things from another perspective. Education can have a negative impact, as the more education one has the more indoctrination, so it makes it harder to break from that programming.

Many times I just don't spit-out an answer because I've found that spitting out an answer just results in more recoil. I actually found that give people hints and letting them find the answers themselves typically is more successful. Basically, people must come to their own conclusions based upon the information in order to eventually accept them. But with new perspective, I find that people develop new conclusions.

What I am hoping to see is more analysis or propaganda, in all its forms. All these things we witness are deliberate and planned by experts. Nothing is left to chance, and its based on decades of human response study. I find too many are quick to dismiss this, but once one walks down this road I promise an entire world of understanding will open up and you will not be able to turn-off your new found insight and understanding. You will see how the manipulation is inserted everywhere. Once you have those skills you will become invincible.

How do we get there together?

 

[KoldKut]

...

 

[Original_Intent]

Please tell me how I should go about getting forum posters to reframe if I see a discussion going in direction that misses major points.

When I tried this previously I am utterly dismissed. When I'm told to back-up my points, which require lots of backup (too much for a forum structure), I refer people to reading material and videos. But to date, it appears to me that no one has actually followed through and en engaged the material that I refer to.

Look, these are complicated issues. Of course. We know this. What I am repeatedly attempting to do it get push people toward a different frame, a different perspective... one that is usually radically different than they have been exposed to before. The typical reaction is to recoil.... which is a natural reaction at first. But I don't seem to see anything beyond the recoil, no questions, no ponding the perspective further, just moving right back into acceptable frames of thought.

How do we break ourselves of this... thinking within predefined boxes? That is what is important to me... and it should be important to all of us it is what will save us.

As far as intelligence, that is irrelevant. I've found it has no bearing whatsoever on ones ability to see things from another perspective. Education can have a negative impact, as the more education one has the more indoctrination, so it makes it harder to break from that programming.

Many times I just don't spit-out an answer because I've found that spitting out an answer just results in more recoil. I actually found that give people hints and letting them find the answers themselves typically is more successful. Basically, people must come to their own conclusions based upon the information in order to eventually accept them. But with new perspective, I find that people develop new conclusions.

What I am hoping to see is more analysis or propaganda, in all its forms. All these things we witness are deliberate and planned by experts. Nothing is left to chance, and its based on decades of human response study. I find too many are quick to dismiss this, but once one walks down this road I promise an entire world of understanding will open up and you will not be able to turn-off your new found insight and understanding. You will see how the manipulation is inserted everywhere. Once you have those skills you will become invincible.

How do we get there together?

My guess is that you are preaching to the choir - I don't recoil, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I understand the concept of Hegelian dialectic, I understand how propaganda shapes our perceptions, I realize that TPTB are frighteningly intelligent, have decades if not centuries of research and technique refining on their side, and basically have an almost insurmountable power base because of their control of the media and most of the other levers of power.

If you try to point this out to the general population, TPTB will simply use the media to paint you as a whacko. You are right - when most people wake up, and realize what we are up against and how insurmountable the odds are, they recoil. You would have to be certifiable NOT to react that way. However, most of the people here have been thru that fire - I would guess that most people here don;t disagree with what you are saying, it is just that focussing on the ISSUE of cognitive dissonance - it really is counter productive because what you are saying is only going to ring true to the already awake!

If you go on and on about it to the not awake it sounds like "crazy talk" because they haven't been deprogrammed enough to listen to what you are saying.

So you are dealing with the following groups (sorry for the collective thinking) and their likely reaction.

Those who understand cognitive dissonance - most already agree with you - not productive.

Those who are in "recoil" mode - likely hearing more about cognitive will scare
them even more - not productive.

Those who are not aware at all of what is going on - You may intrigue a few to investigate, but more likely than not they will just write you off as a kook.

That's my opinion. I am sorry I was a bit of a jerk in my response. Some of your replies have been pretty off-putting though.

 

[KoldKut]

...

 

[iddo]

And you continue to not understand.

There's no misunderstainding. I disagree with your collectivist mindset ("self-loathing" nonsense), and with your claims that those warcrimes were necessary ("I basically agree with LeMay. He knew he was committing war crimes, but he felt those crimes were necessary.") You simply ignore facts when they don't conform with your presuppositions, such as the finale bombings that occured after the surrender and therefore were not necessary. I'll quote this summary:

To put it briefly: the evidence is quite overwhelming on this matter. The Japanese had sent an envoy (Ambassador Sato) to Moscow (still officially a neutral) to work out a negotiated surrender. An instruction from Foreign Minister Togo came in a telegram (intercepted by American intelligence, which had broken the Japanese code early in the war), saying: "Unconditional surrender is the only obstacle to peace... It is His Majesty's heart's desire to see the swift termination of the war." The Japanese had one condition for surrender which the U.S. refused to meet — recognizing the sanctity of the Emperor. It seemed the U.S. was determined to drop the bomb before the Japanese could surrender — for a variety of reasons, none of them humanitarian. After the war, the official report of the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey, based on hundreds of interviews with Japanese decision-makers right after the war, concluded that the war would have ended in a few months by a Japanese surrender "even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated".

I stand by my argument. On factual grounds, your claims that dropping the nukes (and the fire bombings of Tokyo...) was necessary makes as much sense as me saying that it's necessary that you and your city would be nuked to stop your tribe's aggression against Iraq.

 

[diggronpaul]

What I am suggesting is that John Stewart's comment and apology were both deliberately planned in advance. They stage the entire charade.

That the goal of this charade was to frighten the public into believing that the men, who smoke big cigars in the shadows, are so powerful that they can even silence and humiliate the great John Stewart while a left wing progressive administration is in "power". Oh, and while I don't know what Raimondo is yet, he certainly adds to Stewart's humiliation with this article.... which also helps them get their msg of fear (and humiliation) across to the public.

I mean, it's one thing if Cheney is in charge, but now they make Stewart shutup with Obama in charge. Whoa! That's supposed to really freak out the progressives and make them wonder WTF is going on. (They just did the same thing to the patriot movement with the shutdown of the AJ Youtube channel - same drill, different actor).

They WANT to show their power now, and they want to do it overtly. The public is now supposed to see it, and be frightened of it.

What I am also saying is that big freaking deal. We knew these clowns owned and controlled all media a long time ago. So what if they can wave their magic wants on TV or movies, it's just a freaking screen. It's not reality. Screw them and their little games.

On edit
In times like this its good to watch this again​

YouTube - Network

 

[dr. hfn]

posted it on jon stewart's daily show forum

 

[eOs]

Diggronpaul, You have no proof. How can you make such claims? Yes, it's POSSIBLE, but does that mean it happened?

There are, of course, good conspiracy analysts and bad conspiracy analysts, just as there are good and bad historians or practitioners of any discipline. The bad conspiracy analyst tends to make two kinds of mistakes, which indeed leave him open to the Establishment charge of "paranoia." First, he stops with the cui bono; if measure A benefits X and Y, he simply concludes that therefore X and Y were responsible. He fails to realize that this is just a hypothesis, and must be verified by finding out whether or not X and Y really did so. (Perhaps the wackiest example of this was the British journalist Douglas Reed who, seeing that the result of Hitler's policies was the destruction of Germany, concluded, without further evidence, that therefore Hitler was a conscious agent of external forces who deliberately set out to ruin Germany.) Secondly, the bad conspiracy analyst seems to have a compulsion to wrap up all the conspiracies, all the bad guy power blocs, into one giant conspiracy. Instead of seeing that there are several power blocs trying to gain control of government, sometimes in conflict and sometimes in alliance, he has to assume — again without evidence — that a small group of men controls them all, and only seems to send them into conflict.

Taken from Mises.org The Conspiracy Theory of History Revisited

Mises Daily by Murray N. Rothbard |

http://mises.org/story/2809

 

[Original_Intent]

What I am suggesting is that John Stewart's comment and apology were both deliberately planned in advance. They stage the entire charade.

That the goal of this charade was to frighten the public into believing that the men, who smoke big cigars in the shadows, are so powerful that they can even silence and humiliate the great John Stewart while a left wing progressive administration is in "power". Oh, and while I don't know what Raimondo is yet, he certainly adds to Stewart's humiliation with this article.... which also helps them get their msg of fear (and humiliation) across to the public.

I mean, it's one thing if Cheney is in charge, but now they make Stewart shutup with Obama in charge. Whoa! That's supposed to really freak out the progressives and make them wonder WTF is going on. (They just did the same thing to the patriot movement with the shutdown of the AJ Youtube channel - same drill, different actor).

They WANT to show their power now, and they want to do it overtly. The public is now supposed to see it, and be frightened of it.

What I am also saying is that big freaking deal. We knew these clowns owned and controlled all media a long time ago. So what if they can wave their magic wants on TV or movies, it's just a freaking screen. It's not reality. Screw them and their little games.

On edit
In times like this its good to watch this again​

YouTube - Network

Or was Network just controlled propaganda to try and get anyone with any backbone to stand up so that TPTB would know who to round up first? If you keep pursuing this rabbit down the rabbit hole you eventually become paralyzed because you "refuse to play into their hands"....

Or is THAT what they WANT you to think???

 

[eOs]

Diggronpaul, You have no proof. How can you make such claims? Yes, it's POSSIBLE, but does that mean it happened?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murray Rothbard
There are, of course, good conspiracy analysts and bad conspiracy analysts, just as there are good and bad historians or practitioners of any discipline. The bad conspiracy analyst tends to make two kinds of mistakes, which indeed leave him open to the Establishment charge of "paranoia." First, he stops with the cui bono; if measure A benefits X and Y, he simply concludes that therefore X and Y were responsible. He fails to realize that this is just a hypothesis, and must be verified by finding out whether or not X and Y really did so. (Perhaps the wackiest example of this was the British journalist Douglas Reed who, seeing that the result of Hitler's policies was the destruction of Germany, concluded, without further evidence, that therefore Hitler was a conscious agent of external forces who deliberately set out to ruin Germany.) Secondly, the bad conspiracy analyst seems to have a compulsion to wrap up all the conspiracies, all the bad guy power blocs, into one giant conspiracy. Instead of seeing that there are several power blocs trying to gain control of government, sometimes in conflict and sometimes in alliance, he has to assume — again without evidence — that a small group of men controls them all, and only seems to send them into conflict.
Taken from Mises.org The Conspiracy Theory of History Revisited

Mises Daily by Murray N. Rothbard |

http://mises.org/story/2809

Or was Network just controlled propaganda to try and get anyone with any backbone to stand up so that TPTB would know who to round up first? If you keep pursuing this rabbit down the rabbit hole you eventually become paralyzed because you "refuse to play into their hands"....

Or is THAT what they WANT you to think???

This and this.

 

[diggronpaul]

Diggronpaul, You have no proof. How can you make such claims? Yes, it's POSSIBLE, but does that mean it happened?

This is an analysis based upon my knowledge of propaganda techniques. What I am arguing is that an understanding of the techniques will make this apparent. I can only do this from a distance using analysis. Tangible proof is, in almost all cases, not possible. But the good news is that you can learn this techniques too and conduct your own analysis.

Or was Network just controlled propaganda to try and get anyone with any backbone to stand up so that TPTB would know who to round up first? If you keep pursuing this rabbit down the rabbit hole you eventually become paralyzed because you "refuse to play into their hands"....

Or is THAT what they WANT you to think???

I think it might be best to start a separate network thread so we can talk about it, otherwise, we might derail this thread totally.

But to address your point in summary, Network showed that the public is just the dumb studio audience, who only react upon queue and only do what the teleprompter and studio hands tell them to do. The public pose no threat to anyone, they are merely pawns. No one really stands up to TPTB in this movie, not even Beale, as he's just another prop who is used by them. The purpose for me posting this video clip is to remind us that it's just a totally fake and contrived medium that we must not take seriously.

 

[KoldKut]

...

 

[Liberty Star]

He is a wimp, but a funny one.

 

[Andrew-Austin]

Vaporizing whole cities, tons of people, many of which had nothing to do with the war, is an incredibly immoral crime against humanity. The war was only between the rulers of Japan and the United States, not the inhabitants of the two countries.

The soldiers were used as pawns, whose wages were paid for with stolen money. The people who died from the nuclear blast were innocents, whom the state simply called collateral damage.

 

[South Park Fan]

Morality is ALWAYS suspended during war. Or are you going to try and argue that a soldier shooting a total stranger because they were ordered to do so is moral?

I oppose non-defensive war. I am not trying to argue that war is moral, just that the laws of morality are constant, and are not changed because of the state of affairs. Also, while both are immoral, isn't it worse to kill someone who did not join the military than to kill someone who did?

That's all just your opinion that they knew they were defeated and that they posed no threat. Obviously other people in the decision loop had different opinions.

Of course, several other people in this thread have shown that it was unnecessary, since Japan had accepted a conditional surrender months earlier.

You are looking for some mythical approval of your actions by some outside impartial arbiter of justice. There is no such thing. I enjoy a eating a cheeseburger now and again. Is that morally justified for me to devour the flesh of another sentient being? I don't think it is justified, and yet cows better fear me because I eat them regardless. I'm not going to make up some bullshit excuse for why it's justified for me to eat the cow so that I can feel all righteous and superior to the "bad" "evil" people.

I'd go so far as to say the only truly moral people are people like the Jains, who refrain from eating or killing any living thing. Are you a Jain? Where is your own immorality? Or do you delude yourself into believing that all your acts and choices are moral and good? How do you "justify" your immoral acts?

How does eating a cheeseburger have anything to do with mass murder of civilians? Would you use that argument as a defense during the Nuremburg Trials?

 

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

Stewart is a douchebag, plain and simple. If it was staged or not is irrelevant. He's just another shithead hack.

 

[KoldKut]

...

 

[Gideon]

History tends to repeat itself, yes?

What exactly did Jon Stewart say about Warren G. Harding?

Is it possible that the Truman retraction and the Harding comment are linked?

In other words, it is not OK to accuse anyone from the current ruling party of being a war-monger and at the same time, anyone who questions the Federal Reserve is scum.

The MSMedia is one mind-f*cking blur of PSYOPS after another...


History tends to repeat itself, yes?

 

[sailor]

Morality is ALWAYS suspended during war. Or are you going to try and argue that a soldier shooting a total stranger because they were ordered to do so is moral?

Shooting a total stranger is perfectly moral, provided the stranger is a part of the military or of the government that is invading the shooter`s country. It is irrelevant if the shooter has been ordered to do so or not, or even if he is in the miliatary himself or not.