Raimondo calls Jon Stewart a Wimp, Wuss and Moral Coward. lol!

Framing this in the D vs. R false paradigm is just damned silly. So is commenting about Harding; though I suppose that could be used to make this look like a D/R debate. It certainly shows that trashing libertarian thought is safe enough. But of course the nuking of Japan is a sacred cow. One, there are people still alive who lived through that damned war--and the ones who fought in the Pacific theater will tell you that the Imperial Japanese weren't boy and girl scouts and would have done the same to us in a heartbeat. Two, there has been a load of propaganda on this subject over the last sixty-four years and it has been pretty believable.

FDR called for unconditional surrender by Japan. After he died, a lot of Americans, not just Truman, wanted to hold out for the same. Was that justified? Probably not, but who knows? Does anyone here have the details of the conditional surrender terms Japan was willing to stipulate to? What if they said, you can have all the Pacific just so long as we're able to continue to rape China and Korea? The fact that we were about to screw around and let China go 'red' was irrelevant at the time--irrelevant because it wasn't yet a given.

A second bomb three days later. Yeah, we wanted to test the plutonium bomb on a population, not just the uranium bomb. You betcha. Moral and high-minded? Hell, no. But even so, have you ever stopped to consider that, if we hadn't seen the after-effects of that crap, we probably would have gotten into a shooting war with the Soviets and wiped out everyone and everything but the cockroaches? Is that justification? No, but it certainly is reason to be thankful...

So, Stewart is pwned, libertarianism and Harding aren't sacred cows but Hiroshima and Truman are, and WWII isn't a subject to be trifled with even today. Which could be a useful political lesson for us--we don't help our cause by insisting on making the (rather weak) case that Pearl Harbor was a false flag event. No way to prove it at this late date, and plenty of reasonable doubt (we were so very good at underestimating the hell out of Orientals back then, probably because of the totally irrelevant fact that they tend to be short).

If you want to make a point about World War II, make the point that it didn't justify Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Iraq and/or Bosnia
the way its veterans all seemed to think it did. That's useful food for public thought, right there. And we didn't have to commit war crimes for that fact to be true, either.
Some points about the above...

  • WWII was fought, in part, to finish what WWI did not achieve - League of Nations/United Nations (UN).

  • I would argue that nothing is a sacred cow, and all topics are openly available for manipulation as long as they serve the establishment's agenda.

  • "We" didn't "let" China "go Red", we actively encouraged it and actively worked to ensure that it happened.

  • "We" didn't go to "war" with the Soviets (although Gen. Patton wanted to) because Communism was always planned to be the victor, and because they needed a 40 year cold war to drain both country's of financial resources so that both could be collapsed and merged into a global system.

  • "We" didn't underestimate anyone during WWII. All went according to plan.

  • I would say that framing this as a "Hiroshima and Truman" versus a "libertarianism and Harding" debate is also falling into a false frame meant to turn us against ourselves. Overall, I continue to say that the main point of this "event" was as described in my previous posts in this thread.
 
[*]I would argue that nothing is a sacred cow, and all topics are openly available for manipulation as long as they serve the establishment's agenda.

They have enough sense not to step on the toes of WWII veterans in the process--not even 'veterans' of the home front. I would hope we'd have as much sense.

[*]I would say that framing this as a "Hiroshima and Truman" versus a "libertarianism and Harding" debate is also falling into a false frame meant to turn us against ourselves.

That was kind of my whole point.

The rest is opinion. And I know you can't back it up, because I share much of it, and I can't back it up.
 
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Diggronpaul, if you've got everything so figured out, why are you on these forums so much? Wouldn't this just be a waste of your time. Shouldn't you be withdrawn from society or starting a secret revolution somewhere?
 
Diggronpaul, if you've got everything so figured out, why are you on these forums so much? Wouldn't this just be a waste of your time. Shouldn't you be withdrawn from society or starting a secret revolution somewhere?
Why is it that I am questioned (and subtly attacked) in this "Libertarian" forum for expressing my opinion?

Shouldn't an individual's opinion be embraced, especially when it provides new perspective? Why is it mocked? Are we, as Libertarians, not supposed to honor and cherish individuality?

I toned down my posts, as requested. I have no ill will here. My goal is to help. Why then do we witness these types of replies?
 
I toned down my posts, as requested. I have no ill will here. My goal is to help. Why then do we witness these types of replies?

The more the sparks fly here, the more honed and keen our wits become. The more honed and keen our wits, the more surgically we can apply them when we're out and about educating the masses and removing their misconceptions. :cool:
 
Way to dodge my question digg. I asked that because, as is obvious by the fact that you're on these forums so much, you are just a guy who's watched so many conspiracy documentaries and read so many conspiracy books that you don't know up from down.

If you were really as smart as you are trying to come across, you wouldn't bother with us measly grassroots organizers, you would be heading up some NGO or some other activist organization that is focused on ousting these shadowy characters you keep referring to.

We do embrace individuality on these forums, but we also are trying to keep conversation civilized. You have nothing to add to our conversations, because we know they are paranoid thoughts coming from your head. Your opinions are not based in reality. That's why people criticize you directly so much on these forums.

What I'm suggesting is that you either leave the forums, or only bring up conspiracy theories when you have at least a smidgen of tangible proof to point us towards. Just telling us to read a book does not work, you must cite the book, as in quote it or give us a fact from the book. You've just used the books to foster your own ultra paranoid way of thinking, much akin to UFO conspiracy theorists.
 
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Way to dodge my question digg. I asked that because, as is obvious by the fact that you're on these forums so much, you are just a guy who's watched so many conspiracy documentaries and read so many conspiracy books that you don't know up from down.

If you were really as smart as you are trying to come across, you wouldn't bother with us measly grassroots organizers, you would be heading up some NGO or some other activist organization that is focused on ousting these shadowy characters you keep referring to.

We do embrace individuality on these forums, but we also are trying to keep conversation civilized. You have nothing to add to our conversations, because we know they are paranoid thoughts coming from your head. Your opinions are not based in reality. That's why people criticize you directly so much on these forums.

What I'm suggesting is that you either leave the forums, or only bring up conspiracy theories when you have at least a smidgen of tangible proof to point us towards. Just telling us to read a book does not work, you must cite the book, as in quote it or give us a fact from the book. You've just used the books to foster your own ultra paranoid way of thinking, much akin to UFO conspiracy theorists.
You may not realize this, but you "measly grassroots organizers" (your words, not mine) are everything. You are the most important piece of the puzzle. Its all about you. That's why I'm here. Anything else worth a damn gets co-opted.

With regard to any statements that I make that you are not satisfied with, well, this is the one area where I agree with Alex Jones, it's your responsibility to do your own research!

If you want to talk about it some more, then I suggest starting another thread so we don't disrupt this thread any more.
 
Some of the infantry did kill themselves rather than face capture, I know that for a fact. That is a far cry from saying the entirety of the civilian populace would attempt to overwhelm a landing force with frying pans and gardening tools..

Yeah, exactly.
 
This thread is long and arduous, but it did make me wonder something.

Does anyone have a decent ranking of presidents based on their loyalty to the Constitution and personal liberty. That is a list I would love to see because I think that some presidents I know very little about could shoot to the top of the list while many that are worshipped in current historical circles would be dead last.
 
An open mind is generally a good thing. But it's like an open window, you need a screen or else a lot of bugs will get in.
 
This thread is long and arduous, but it did make me wonder something.

Does anyone have a decent ranking of presidents based on their loyalty to the Constitution and personal liberty. That is a list I would love to see because I think that some presidents I know very little about could shoot to the top of the list while many that are worshipped in current historical circles would be dead last.

http://www.independent.org/store/book_detail.asp?bookID=77

YouTube - Book TV: After Words Ivan Eland "Recarving Rushmore"
 
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