Question Raised in Glenn Beck Interview

[YumYum]

Wal Mart also gets tax breaks and other state-sponsored advantages. That means corporatism is failing not free markets.

It wasn't the "tax breaks" that put the little paint store out of business. It was Wal Mart selling paint for half the price the paint store charged.

 

[dannno]

That's a really lousy picture. Is that Ron Paul dressed in the Corporate interests" suit since he is the founder of the Tea Party movement and doesn't believe in regulating industries?

Kade, don't you know how regulations work? They are put in place BY INDUSTRIES. The industries have the most power and control government, so by regulating industry you are allowing BIG INDUSTRY to set the rules. I can't believe you never learned about this last time around.

 

[Krugerrand]

That's a really lousy picture. Is that Ron Paul dressed in the Corporate interests" suit since he is the founder of the Tea Party movement and doesn't believe in regulating industries?

Kade, don't you know how regulations work? They are put in place BY INDUSTRIES. The industries have the most power and control government, so by regulating industry you are allowing BIG INDUSTRY to set the rules. I can't believe you never learned about this last time around.

Considering Herman Cain gets discussed as a Tea Party favorite - I'm not sure the cartoon is completely off base.

 

[YumYum]

That's a really lousy picture. Is that Ron Paul dressed in the Corporate interests" suit since he is the founder of the Tea Party movement and doesn't believe in regulating industries?

Kade, don't you know how regulations work? They are put in place BY INDUSTRIES. The industries have the most power and control government, so by regulating industry you are allowing BIG INDUSTRY to set the rules. I can't believe you never learned about this last time around.

So, how did they become "industries" in the first place, before there was regulations and tax breaks?

 

[dannno]

Forget corporations. Let's look at this way: A multi-billionaire comes to my county and wants to put everybody out of business, and own all the businesses. How does he do it? He provides equal or better products or services at a lower cost, even it if he takes loses on his new operations. Eventually, the smaller businesses can't compete and either sell out or go out of business. No corporation here; no regulations or subsidies. Just a case where the guy with the most money eventually wins the poker game.

You confused what "costs" means. The costs come to his business, the prices are what the customer pays.

If the new guy comes in with his billion dollars and starts all these new companies and ensures that he is the only one with any real say about the direction of the companies or where the profits go, first of all, he's taking a lot of the incentive away that the former owners had to expand and grow their businesses. The billionaire would be better off partnering and investing with these businesses to help them grow, unless the billionaire wants to put a lot of effort into actually making a better business than what was there before.

Secondly, these new businesses are most likely going to be less efficient.. so your theory is that the costs will go up, but they will be able to lower their prices so the billionaire can take a loss and drive the other businesses out. This actually does happen in today's market with places like coffee shops. A corporate brand will come in and actually keep their prices low and drive other smaller high quality coffee places out, then take over the market. The difference is that capital is so easy to come by and is ever expanding, so it will be harder for a smaller competitor to come in later to drive them back out because the prices keep going up on commercial real estate and other big corporations continually come in and expand into that area until the market crash.. Even after the crash, as we've seen, the fed keeps interest rates low which allows the biggest of the big corporations to keep expanding by expanding the credit supply and driving up prices for everyone else. Not to mention there is a lot of state and local regulations on land-use which restrict a business from simply popping up somewhere, driving up the cost of doing business.

The point is this tactic doesn't really work in the free market.. there are better ways for the billionaire to invest their money.

 

[dannno]

So, how did they become "industries" in the first place, before there was regulations and tax breaks?

The first step was to make a modest profit, perhaps in textiles or the slave trade.

The next step was to get in bed with government and create a central bank, with a very small reserve, loaning money they never had to said government at interest and collecting the interest on money they never had.

After making billions of dollars running their banking scam, they begin financing and owning big industry.

Definitely not free market.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

That's a really lousy picture. Is that Ron Paul dressed in the Corporate interests" suit since he is the founder of the Tea Party movement and doesn't believe in regulating industries?

Kade, don't you know how regulations work? They are put in place BY INDUSTRIES. The industries have the most power and control government, so by regulating industry you are allowing BIG INDUSTRY to set the rules. I can't believe you never learned about this last time around.

I guess Tea Partiers should want to use the government to squeeze money out of private citizens and corporations and put it into their pockets. That'd be the kind, fair, liberal way to do things.

Federal regulations are usually written by the corporations themselves and used to ruin small businesses and enrich the corporate/government monopolies. Also, regulations that burden private businesses are always passed down onto the consumer or employees by the increase of prices and the downsizing of employees. The idea that the government uses regulations to help the people and curb the greed of businesses is erroneous.

 

[dannno]

Considering Herman Cain gets discussed as a Tea Party favorite - I'm not sure the cartoon is completely off base.

Still not a great portrayal of the movement as a whole, maybe if they specified that they were the establishment/neocon offshoot of the tea party.

 

[dannno]

//

 

[Krugerrand]

Still not a great portrayal of the movement as a whole, maybe if they specified that they were the establishment/neocon offshoot of the tea party.

Agreed. But, unfortunately, "Tea Party" just doesn't mean what it originally did. I wouldn't mind seeing one of Kade's friend George Soros controlling the anti-war puppet that has since gone silent.

 

[dannno]

Right here where I live, Wal Mart did this very thing; putting every mom and pop business out of business on the town-square. Every time a new paint store or fabric store tries to open up, Wal Mart lowers its prices and puts them out of business. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if someone comes to town with one hundred billion dollars, he will eventually own the town. Another thing, you like the fantasy of a free market utopia where everyone is honest and loving and caring. Sorry, but those same loving, honest, caring individuals can be bought for a price. If you don't believe me, just look at the drug cartels, which is an example of a "free market" with no subsidies and regulations.

edit: the bottom line is that people can be bought. You don't have a central government and you have free trade and everybody's happy? Don't worry, wealthy people can change all that.

Wow, I hope you read my post above cause I address this situation specifically (replace coffee shop with Walmart).. and second of all, where in the world do you get the idea that a "free market" and a "black market" are anywhere near similar??? Just because it isn't regulated by regulations, you also have to realize it isn't regulated by ordinary laws. If somebody steals my bag of cocaine, I can't report it to the police, it is essentially illegal to defend my property.

 

[Kade]

Still not a great portrayal of the movement as a whole, maybe if they specified that they were the establishment/neocon offshoot of the tea party.

I give the Ron Paul movement all the credit in the world for the first Tea Party Movement, mostly because I was there as well... but the truth is, it's gone, and in it's place is a sickened and decrepit monster in a chamber with a feeding tube that looks suspiciously like a bank's mobile teller pipes.

 

[silverhandorder]

Right here where I live, Wal Mart did this very thing; putting every mom and pop business out of business on the town-square. Every time a new paint store or fabric store tries to open up, Wal Mart lowers its prices and puts them out of business. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if someone comes to town with one hundred billion dollars, he will eventually own the town. Another thing, you like the fantasy of a free market utopia where everyone is honest and loving and caring. Sorry, but those same loving, honest, caring individuals can be bought for a price. If you don't believe me, just look at the drug cartels, which is an example of a "free market" with no subsidies and regulations.

edit: the bottom line is that people can be bought. You don't have a central government and you have free trade and everybody's happy? Don't worry, wealthy people can change all that.

We would have to know whether walmart has any subsidies given to it by the town. From my personal experience every mall area around here is heavily subsidized. Even if your town does not subsidize the fact that it is subsidized all over US gives Walmart and big chain stores a lot of economic advantages in one or two areas where it is not.

 

[TomtheTinker]

I have been thinking the same thing. What stops big corporations from causing damage to environment, people, etc without regulation?

2 words: Private Property

 

[dannno]

It wasn't the "tax breaks" that put the little paint store out of business. It was Wal Mart selling paint for half the price the paint store charged.

Yet another problem that can be blamed on regulation. Regulation of our monetary system, once again, the reason why Ron Paul puts the Federal Reserve at the forefront of the problems that our country faces.

Our country's biggest export are dollars. Newly printed dollars, as valuable as mined gold, printed from nothing and sent overseas to be used to trade oil and other commodities. In turn we get cheaply made products from other countries at an artificially low price while we all go into debt. Walmart simply created a giant corridor to take advantage of all the monetary manipulation that causes prices on overseas goods to be artificially lower.

 

[Kade]

2 words: Private Property

One word: MINE!

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

I give the Ron Paul movement all the credit in the world for the first Tea Party Movement, mostly because I was there as well... but the truth is, it's gone, and in it's place is a sickened and decrepit monster in a chamber with a feeding tube that looks suspiciously like a bank's mobile teller pipes.

Ron and Rand still seem to have enough of a foothold in the Tea Party for it to be a useful, positive movement. It's done wonders in terms of changing the debate and the mentality of the Republican Party.

 

[Kade]

Ron and Rand still seem to have enough of a foothold in the Tea Party for it to be a useful, positive movement. It's done wonders in terms of changing the debate and the mentality of the Republican Party.

I shouted down and had a bottle of what I hope was soda thrown on me at the last parade where a Tea Party float passed by, because I was shouting Support Ron Paul!

So doubtful.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

I shouted down and had a bottle of what I hope was soda thrown on me at the last parade where a Tea Party float passed by, because I was shouting Support Ron Paul!

So doubtful.

That is bizarre. I have heard many people with bad interactions with the Tea Party. The tea party people I have come into contact with all hated the Federal Reserve, either supported or were sympathetic to Ron Paul and were very civil.

 

[botounami]

We would have to know whether walmart has any subsidies given to it by the town. From my personal experience every mall area around here is heavily subsidized. Even if your town does not subsidize the fact that it is subsidized all over US gives Walmart and big chain stores a lot of economic advantages in one or two areas where it is not.

Thank you all so much for the answers so far! I'm wondering if this can be clarified. What kind of subsidies are you referring to? Can you direct me to the specific subsidies and how they are benefitting the corporations like Wal-Mart and Starbucks and hurting the local shops?

I haven't quite seen how you prevent a big chain like Wal-Mart from moving into a place, lowering their prices and operating at a loss, running all other businesses out, and then raising prices. If a competitor arises, the big chain lowers its prices again.

Also, thank you for interjecting with the environmental question. It also greatly concerns me. So far the ideas proposed seem incredibly short-sighted and ineffective. The struggle with environmental issues is that they are not simply local. We're not talking about a factory that dumps a few chemicals in the local pond. What about corporate dumping in the oceans, which kills reefs, and leads to islands worldwide to be more susceptible to flooding? What about toxic levels of pollution in our water and food causing nation-wide increases in disease? What of air pollution? What about endangered species which I feel are vital to my sense of happiness - what is to keep them from being destroyed? If they aren't on my property, I seem to be completely unable to do anything about it. What about a large corporation/company that buys up 30,000 acres and clearcuts it for wood/paper products, decreasing the quality of the air for miles?

Even when it comes to small scale issues, like a big company polluting a local farmer's water supply - we all know how law works, especially so in a free market. The larger entity can win the lawsuit by hiring better lawyers, or by stalling the suit long enough that the farmer can no longer afford to maintain it. This happens all the time. How is this prevented?

I can't wait for answers that I've been seeking for a very long time! Thanks!