Pulling out of Iraq detrimental??

[luaPnoR]

Ok, I've been talking to my good friend about Ron Paul. She's a conservative republican like me. Here's the letter I got from her today and I often wonder myself what would "really" happen if we pulled out of Iraq right away. Can you all read this and tell me what you think and maybe give me an idea of how to respond to her? Thanks!

"I think my biggest difference with Ron Paul is on foreign policy. I'm not disagreeing with you that the war began under false pretenses or that we are spending trillions of dollars over there (it makes me sick just thinking about it.) But I DO think that it would be detrimental to our security and to the citizens of Iraq to pull out our troops suddenly. I haven't read in detail RP's plan for this... but I know he's generally in favor of immediate troop withdrawal. I also think that the war has served some good... even though it wasn't a popular decision. I can only imagine the millions of Iraqis who feared for their lives every day (Saddam Hussein was responsible for the genocide of millions of Iraqi citizens) and even though it's not better yet, I think that it will be. I am constantly reminded of the book "Night" by Elie Wiesel... a Holocaust survivor who talked about how the whole world knew that mass genocide of Jews was going on yet did nothing to stop the Nazis. For YEARS the U.S. didn't step in to defend the defenseless and I think that's wrong.

Anyway, I kind of feel that way about Iraq... all those innocent people killed at the hands of Saddam and his regime and nobody had the balls to step in and do something about it. Also, there have been DIRECT links to Al Qaida (terrorists) in Iraq. You don't hear about it much on the news because, as we've discussed, the media is extremely biased towards the left... so they don't report on things that negatively affect the left's stance on issues and make Bush look like he maybe knew a little about what he was doing. Anyway, I'm SICK to death of politicians (i.e. Bill Clinton and his wife) who turn the other cheek to TERRORISTS, people who are not going to listen to the voice of reason and will do WHATEVER IT TAKES (including sacrificing themselves) to further their own cause.

With that being said, I fully acknowledge that I haven't read up on each candidate's plan for foreign policy and can't say that I completely agree or disagree with RP on this issue until I do so."

 

[RonPaulalways]

Tell your friend that the people pushing for the Iraq war and at the forefront of pushing the propaganda against Iraq were almost all Jewish nationalists with close ties to Israel:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/...&subContrassID=14&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

--------------------
In the course of the past year, a new belief has emerged in the town: the belief in war against Iraq. That ardent faith was disseminated by a small group of 25 or 30 neoconservatives, almost all of them Jewish, almost all of them intellectuals (a partial list: Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, William Kristol, Eliot Abrams, Charles Krauthammer), people who are mutual friends and cultivate one another
------------------------------------------------------

The war on Iraq was sold by Israel's supporters in America:

http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html

--------------------------
In 1996, with Douglas Feith and David Wurmser, Perle wrote “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,” for Prime Minister Netanyahu. In it, Perle, Feith, and Wurmser urged Bibi to ditch the Oslo Accords of the assassinated Yitzak Rabin and adopt a new aggressive strategy:

---------------------------
Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq—an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right—as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions. Jordan has challenged Syria’s regional ambitions recently by suggesting the restoration of the Hashemites in Iraq.
--------------

In the Perle-Feith-Wurmser strategy, Israel’s enemy remains Syria, but the road to Damascus runs through Baghdad. Their plan, which urged Israel to re-establish “the principle of preemption,” has now been imposed by Perle, Feith, Wurmser & Co. on the United States.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tell your friend to seriously question all of her foreign policy views as she has likely been influenced by supporters of Israel posing as people with America's interests at heart.

 

[hairball]

Tell your friend that the people pushing for the Iraq war and at the forefront of pushing the propaganda against Iraq were almost all Jewish nationalists with close ties to Israel:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/...&subContrassID=14&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

--------------------
In the course of the past year, a new belief has emerged in the town: the belief in war against Iraq. That ardent faith was disseminated by a small group of 25 or 30 neoconservatives, almost all of them Jewish, almost all of them intellectuals (a partial list: Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, William Kristol, Eliot Abrams, Charles Krauthammer), people who are mutual friends and cultivate one another
------------------------------------------------------

The war on Iraq was sold by Israel's supporters in America:

http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html

--------------------------
In 1996, with Douglas Feith and David Wurmser, Perle wrote “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,” for Prime Minister Netanyahu. In it, Perle, Feith, and Wurmser urged Bibi to ditch the Oslo Accords of the assassinated Yitzak Rabin and adopt a new aggressive strategy:

---------------------------
Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq—an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right—as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions. Jordan has challenged Syria’s regional ambitions recently by suggesting the restoration of the Hashemites in Iraq.
--------------

In the Perle-Feith-Wurmser strategy, Israel’s enemy remains Syria, but the road to Damascus runs through Baghdad. Their plan, which urged Israel to re-establish “the principle of preemption,” has now been imposed by Perle, Feith, Wurmser & Co. on the United States.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tell your friend to seriously question all of her foreign policy views as she has likely been influenced by supporters of Israel posing as people with America's interests at heart.

And this kind of emotional, baiting, conspiracy crap is what will keep Ron from being taken seriously by National voters. Facts, not this paranoid, delusional fixation with the Jews.

 

[Just_here_to_watch]

My brother has been trying to convert me to the church of paul for a few months now. I have been hanging out on these forums reading and watching. After reading all of the conspiracy nonesense and the rabid anti-semetism as demonstrated above, my flirtation with the good Dr. is now over. You people are lunatics.

 

[fmontez]

Your friend has many good points, and I share her worries. Here is what I would say.. the mission in Iraq is accomplished, the Iraqi military is ready to take over the job. Now we need to worry about the USA first.

 

[losinglife]

i smell a possible troll here

 

[DAFTEK]

My brother has been trying to convert me to the church of paul for a few months now. I have been hanging out on these forums reading and watching. After reading all of the conspiracy nonesense and the rabid anti-semetism as demonstrated above, my flirtation with the good Dr. is now over. You people are lunatics.

Go back to your other camp please, if you claim you have been reading here a couple of days you would have notice RP supporters dismiss propaganda like that, with that said, there are many wolfs in sheep's skin among us with nothing but sabotage in mind, so in the end this is a forum, free to speak your mind and free to be judged by the rest. Please do more reading on RP on the net and not on Forums. Do some searching on You Tube and listen to Ron speak and judge him by his words!

 

[Fudwamper]

Ok here you go.

Sure somebody needed to do something about Saddam, we did. You have to remember that Iran is mostly Shitte and they did go to war against Saddam. We supported his regime. Those chemicals he used where ours. We screwed up in Iran, we wanted a Secular Nation State and that was what Iraq was to us.

"Also, there have been DIRECT links to Al Qaida (terrorists) in Iraq." What links? There are now links in Iraq because of our presence. There where little to no links to Saddam or his regime. There will be more links to Al Qaida the longer we are there.

The fact is we westerners are baffled by Middle East politics. They are not like ours, it truly is different. We don't understand that most of the politics are surrounded in religion and especially in the different secs of Islam. We tried to instill Nationalism and it just doesn't work. The region is passionate about its religion and they choose to use their religion to run their governments. Then there are the floating groups of people that can't belong to a country because the region will not give up its power or land to the Kurds.

Ask her if she believes we should invade Turkey so they can stop killing Kurds there and help them set up their own country. The Arabs will fight violently not to let that happen.

The fact is for a people to be free they must take there freedom. They can not let others give it to them.

 

[kisstheclowns]

philosophically, if you do something that is wrong, you stop doing it in order to make it right. If I steal some chips, I don't just start stealing cars just because I am in this "theft game" now. Come on. They don't want us there. we have helped no one but al quaeda. and now we sell weapons to saudi arabia, which is where all of the insurgents are from. We have destroyed iraq forever. They are adults who can take care of themselves.

 

[jstmike]

Saddam did bad things but we are doing worse. We are committing "omnicide" which means the total destruction of all life and future life. Not only in that region but beyond. I think our true intentions have been to wipe out all living things in that area so that the only thing left is their oil.

Our military is using Depleted Uranium which is basically nuclear waste as ammunition. See my posts about it here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=75661

If fact President Bush was convicted of war crimes: See:

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Afghanistan-Criminal-Tribunal10mar04.htm

Also here is what Pinky has to say about the legality of the Iraq war: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Khut8xbXK8

 

[jclay2]

Hey Luapnor: I might suggest that you send your friend this link. http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocidetable2005.htm

It has basically all the genocides of the 20th century and tell her that if she cares so much about genocide that we should take over the world. Oh and also mention that supposedly nearly 100,000+ Iraqui's have died since our occupation.

 

[Cleaner44]

I think it would be fair to defer to the Iraq people's request for us to leave their nation.

 

[kisstheclowns]

People spread lies in campaigns, allot of trolls are out there. If you are not going to support someone just because of who likes them (supposedly), then i don't think you are being very strong minded. John wayne Gacey was a huge jimmy carter fan. Does that make jimmy a murderer? I have many Jewish friends that want Israel to become independent they support Ron Paul. I don't know if this is your first election or not, but smear campaigns are common politics and trolling is very effective (to the uninformed). Just wait until they start slinging the dirt on mccain, obama and hilary. Paul will then seem like Jesus.

 

[kisstheclowns]

actually the number is more in the 500,000's

 

[fmontez]

philosophically, if you do something that is wrong, you stop doing it in order to make it right. If I steal some chips, I don't just start stealing cars just because I am in this "theft game" now. Come on. They don't want us there. we have helped no one but al quaeda. and now we sell weapons to saudi arabia, which is where all of the insurgents are from. We have destroyed iraq forever. They are adults who can take care of themselves.

But was what we did in Iraq wrong? hmmmm, not everyone agrees with that.

 

[snaFU]

Ok, I've been talking to my good friend about Ron Paul. She's a conservative republican like me. Here's the letter I got from her today and I often wonder myself what would "really" happen if we pulled out of Iraq right away. Can you all read this and tell me what you think and maybe give me an idea of how to respond to her? Thanks!

"I think my biggest difference with Ron Paul is on foreign policy. I'm not disagreeing with you that the war began under false pretenses or that we are spending trillions of dollars over there (it makes me sick just thinking about it.) But I DO think that it would be detrimental to our security and to the citizens of Iraq to pull out our troops suddenly. I haven't read in detail RP's plan for this... but I know he's generally in favor of immediate troop withdrawal. I also think that the war has served some good... even though it wasn't a popular decision. I can only imagine the millions of Iraqis who feared for their lives every day (Saddam Hussein was responsible for the genocide of millions of Iraqi citizens) and even though it's not better yet, I think that it will be. I am constantly reminded of the book "Night" by Elie Wiesel... a Holocaust survivor who talked about how the whole world knew that mass genocide of Jews was going on yet did nothing to stop the Nazis. For YEARS the U.S. didn't step in to defend the defenseless and I think that's wrong.

Anyway, I kind of feel that way about Iraq... all those innocent people killed at the hands of Saddam and his regime and nobody had the balls to step in and do something about it. Also, there have been DIRECT links to Al Qaida (terrorists) in Iraq. You don't hear about it much on the news because, as we've discussed, the media is extremely biased towards the left... so they don't report on things that negatively affect the left's stance on issues and make Bush look like he maybe knew a little about what he was doing. Anyway, I'm SICK to death of politicians (i.e. Bill Clinton and his wife) who turn the other cheek to TERRORISTS, people who are not going to listen to the voice of reason and will do WHATEVER IT TAKES (including sacrificing themselves) to further their own cause.

With that being said, I fully acknowledge that I haven't read up on each candidate's plan for foreign policy and can't say that I completely agree or disagree with RP on this issue until I do so."

Lmao, the response screams to me "I'M A RETARD"

Anyone who thinks that the Iraq situation could be compared to Nazi concentration camps is already a lost cause. I don't see how you could reason with someone that fucking stupid.

 

[warmth of the sun]

Tell her to listen to this.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ELjgVq6GtPA

 

[TSOL]

Ask your friend why were not in the Congo ? Or Kenya ? Burundi ?

Because there is no EFFIN money in it.

 

[snaFU]

Ask your friend why were not in the Congo ? Or Kenya ? Burundi ?

Because there is no EFFIN money in it.

Lol, so true. I always mention congo when darfur people scream their bleeding hearts out.

 

[SeanEdwards]

Fuck Iraq. I wouldn't trade one drop of American blood for all the Iraqis on planet earth.