Pulling out of Iraq detrimental??

[BenjFranklin]

The fact is for a people to be free they must take there freedom. They can not let others give it to them.

Well said. Well said indeed.

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

You motherfuckers always have to call people trolls who have questions don't you?

Candidates spend millions and millions on TV advertising. You think they won't pay people to post on message boards? Hell, maybe even in teams. Your average webmaster can pay people to make forum posts. Don't think it's outside their budget or isn't happening here.

Paul has one thing the other candidates don't... supporters and grassroots activists. There are plenty of people who would love to undermine his support. It's the only leg he's been standing on for quite awhile now.

 

[luaPnoR]

I'm confused. Am I the one being called a troll? This would be so far from the truth.

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Whether you're sincere or not, I think posts #3 and #4 overreacted in quite a weird way. Just sayin'

Anyone else ever seen good forum spammers at work?

It's interesting.

 

[luaPnoR]

Yes, especially comment #4. I just don't think that anyone who's really heard Ron Paul's message completely comes aways saying he and his supporters are lunatics. Unless they are too stupid to understand his message.

 

[fmontez]

Ignore the peeps that come screaming Troll this and Troll that. What it comes down to is 2 different groups supporting Ron Paul. One is the fringe group, which Dr. Paul needed to get his campaign noticed; the other is the GOP group, which Dr. Paul needs to get elected.

In the end Dr. Paul will have to choose if he will keep the fringe vote, run his race, and make a statement… or he will have to join with the GOP and maybe even win the Presidency but have to learn the art of compromise.

Of course there is a down side to pulling out of Iraq, and “just do it” isn’t a real Presidential answer. But our 99% friend is not our 1% enemy. Also, I seriously doubt the Army or the Congress would allow Dr. Paul to pull the troops out in the manner he describes.

 

[Charles Wilson]

i smell a possible troll here

Bait and switch. I smell it too!

 

[Red Dingo]

Fuck Iraq. I wouldn't trade one drop of American blood for all the Iraqis on planet earth.

You're a real stinking turd and your breath and body odour smell like turds. How dare you have such a one sided view of humanity. You are racist my friend. Americans and Iraqis are people - as a guy you apparently like seems to think Americans and Iraqis are individuals. They are people. They are like you and me, flesh and blood.

And what's worse, we've directly or indirectly killed 500000 of them or to be a bit more conservative, 450000 compared to what - 20000 Westerners. So our blood is better and richer and more holy than the 450000 Iraqi bodies of blood (that were once full of blood) that lay in the grounds of Iraq - dead and dying due to U.S. acts of crimes against humanity - determined by the Bush/Cheney regime and others who came before.

You take your turd nationalism and change it for humanitariasm and true patritism that loves other cultures and countries - especially the ones that you have been murdering and stealing from for so long.

 

[Knightskye]

Your friend doesn't seem like she knows much of blowback. Plus, it looked like she compared terrorists to nazis... They have something in common, but it isn't the reason she thinks. They were both caused by our interventionist foreign policy. We didn't have to get into World War I. We didn't have to have a seat at the negotiation table for the Versailles Treaty.

TERRORISTS, people who are not going to listen to the voice of reason and will do WHATEVER IT TAKES (including sacrificing themselves) to further their own cause.

Bush doesn't listen to the voice of reason. He'll further his own cause whatever it takes. I don't think he's a terrorist, though.

all those innocent people killed at the hands of Saddam and his regime and nobody had the balls to step in and do something about it.

What'd the Lancet say? 650,000? How many did Saddam kill?

 

[liberteebell]

Ok, I've been talking to my good friend about Ron Paul. She's a conservative republican like me. Here's the letter I got from her today and I often wonder myself what would "really" happen if we pulled out of Iraq right away. Can you all read this and tell me what you think and maybe give me an idea of how to respond to her? Thanks!

"I think my biggest difference with Ron Paul is on foreign policy. I'm not disagreeing with you that the war began under false pretenses or that we are spending trillions of dollars over there (it makes me sick just thinking about it.) But I DO think that it would be detrimental to our security and to the citizens of Iraq to pull out our troops suddenly. I haven't read in detail RP's plan for this... but I know he's generally in favor of immediate troop withdrawal. I also think that the war has served some good... even though it wasn't a popular decision. I can only imagine the millions of Iraqis who feared for their lives every day (Saddam Hussein was responsible for the genocide of millions of Iraqi citizens) and even though it's not better yet, I think that it will be. I am constantly reminded of the book "Night" by Elie Wiesel... a Holocaust survivor who talked about how the whole world knew that mass genocide of Jews was going on yet did nothing to stop the Nazis. For YEARS the U.S. didn't step in to defend the defenseless and I think that's wrong.

Anyway, I kind of feel that way about Iraq... all those innocent people killed at the hands of Saddam and his regime and nobody had the balls to step in and do something about it. Also, there have been DIRECT links to Al Qaida (terrorists) in Iraq. You don't hear about it much on the news because, as we've discussed, the media is extremely biased towards the left... so they don't report on things that negatively affect the left's stance on issues and make Bush look like he maybe knew a little about what he was doing. Anyway, I'm SICK to death of politicians (i.e. Bill Clinton and his wife) who turn the other cheek to TERRORISTS, people who are not going to listen to the voice of reason and will do WHATEVER IT TAKES (including sacrificing themselves) to further their own cause.

With that being said, I fully acknowledge that I haven't read up on each candidate's plan for foreign policy and can't say that I completely agree or disagree with RP on this issue until I do so."

Your friend will have to do some research. Summing up the Iraq situation in teevee soundbites, rife with revisionist history will not work. History doesn't happen in a vacuum. This whole situation goes way back in history and our horrible education system fails to teach that.

But for starters, I'd ask her about why, when we're entrenched in 2 foreign quagmires already, the powers that be continue to threaten Iran and to some extent, other countries while arming even others. Who is going to fight these wars (that's right kiddies, YOU are; they won't need a draft after an economic collapse and people are BEGGING for jobs) Who is going to pay for this? Just look at the debt! We're broke! If that's not an assault to anyone's basic sense of logic, I don't know what is.

You might also add in the insanity of the US giving other countries hell for not protecting their borders when we don't bother to protect our own.

I just started reading RP's "A Foreign Policy of Freedom" and it explains a lot. He's been saying to stay out of foreign entanglements for years and years. And he explains the insanity of getting involved in the business of others.

Ron Paul acknowledges that the troops aren't going to come home in the first 24 hours after he takes office; it takes time to bring them home. But that it IS in our best interest to get out. The longer we're there as a military force, the more hatred and thus terrorists we create. Nothing works well by force.

Personal opinion here but I can see bringing in outfits such as the Red Cross to help the Iraqis get back on their feet or letting the free market take effect. Can you imagine if tourism was opened up in the ME?? I think most people in the world are just like us; they'd like to live in peace; feed, clothe and house their families and just go about daily living. Who in their right mind would like to live in constant strife???

Just my 2 cents.

 

[hairball]

You know, liberteebell, I wish I was that naive and trusting in humanity to have a wish for living up to its potential, but people are little different now, than they were 5000 years ago. Yuo had the same potential then, too. But I remmeber listening to Rush Limbaugh, and he said people all over the world have this need, this desire to be free. I thought about that fr a bit, because it was such a pretty thought, a good thought. But with a readig of human history, an experiance out of this country, several in fact, I came to the sad conclusion that the las thing most people, anywhere in the world want, is freedom.

Freedom is unnatural. It is something that has to be learned. Lots of things have to be learned, which is why be honest about the facts has to be so important. When folks say that we killed the Iraqis with the imbargo, they forget the simple fact that we were trading fod for their oil, but Saddam was selling his food and oil for weapons. So those that scream about how Clinto starved the iraqis peopole with the UN embargo are only passing on a sad little lie. Saddam did not care about his people, and was willing to starve them to poke the Un in the eye.

Some say if we stop helping Isreal, and moved out of the Middle east, the terrorists won't want t hit us. That is another lie that is passed about without closer inspection, becasue we WANT to believe that when bin Laden says it is because of U.S presense he attacks, he is telling the truth. Of course he would say that, silly goose. But even if we traded with those he considered HIS enemies, if we traded in the best tradition of non-interventionist, free trade, he would hate us for so much as selling the isrealites a loaf of bread, or the Jordanians, as the jordanians do not follow HIS strict interpretation of Islamic Law.

Most people thrive on conflict. You think people want peace? That is such a sweet thought, completely devoid of the realities of human nature and human history. Look at the Irish. look in the Balkens, look at the Italians, loo at the Russian territories for the last couple of centuries. What most of these people want is to be free at the expense of someone else.

That is a pretty sobering realization.

 

[RonRules]

"Our military is using Depleted Uranium which is basically nuclear waste as ammunition. See my posts about it here:"

Depleted Uranium is LESS radioactive than uranium in the ground. Depleted uranium is uranium with the radioactive 238 REMOVED so the radioactive uranium can be used for nuclear plants and weapons. It is far less radioactive because the is NO radioactive uranium in it! It is used in bullets because it has a higher density than lead and can pierce heavy armor.

The stories about depleted uranium are just totally incorrect and they keep coming up like an unsinkable rubber duck. I'm not a war monger, just a a scientist that occasionally likes to hear the straight scoop.

 

[RonRules]

This "hairball" buy is an Israeli shill. New member just bought and paid for to infiltrate and distort this excellent newsgroup. Don't let him have his way.

 

[hairball]

This "hairball" buy is an Israeli shill. New member just bought and paid for to infiltrate and distort this excellent newsgroup. Don't let him have his way.

Wow! So this is how an open mind works? I was curious. I apologize for not toeing the party line like a good boy, but facts will out.

I guess showing a perspective that has some basis in fact makes one a shill. Still the perspective stands scrutiny, if one is objective, and honest. Yes, I did have a jewish friend who did move to Isreal in the 80's with the hope of being in the IDF, but my own experiance took me south of the border, where my perspective on things were considerably sharpened.

So, ronrules, sorry to educate on this small point, but I am not paid for, nor owned by wnyone, but my own responcibilites.

You can choose to belive it or not, that is your lookout, not mine. Just that your assumptions are wrong.

 

[tommyzDad]

...... You people are lunatics.

Bye bye.

 

[christagious]

Bye bye.

HHEEEYYYYY YOUUU GUYYYYYYSSSSS!!!!!!!