Proof Of God Thread.

[PaulaGem]

They are make-believe if you cannot replicate it in any fashion that can be recording or observed with any sense.

Sorry, I "sense" it on a regular basis and I discuss those sensations with others who share them. Who are you to declare this make-believe?

Besides, there are incidents of precognition and other insights that reflect God's interaction with my physical world. I have experienced them, others have experienced them. There is no point in discussing this with you because you don't want to accept my sensations of Spirit as real.

 

[TortoiseDream]

Beyond reason? How is it people fill places of worship?

I'm just asking for someone to prove that god exists and this thread could be done and over if the first religious person came here and presented some facts.

People believe in god through faith, not reason. Places of worship, in my opinion, are largely filled due to tradition: children grow up believing what their parents believe, raise kids, repeat.

Second, again I say that the absence of proof is not sufficient to assert it's opposite. That is a logical fact. For example, if no one can prove that statement "A" is true, it does not require "~A" to be true. Take Einstein's E = mc^2 for example. Just because, before Einstein, no one would have been able to prove E = mc^2 does not mean it is false. Humans are quite limited, and the faculty of reason is indeed not nearly enough to comprehend this being we are discussing, god.

I believe Descartes did attempt such a thing you seek, however. It does not convince me, and I do not believe it will convince you, but here is something to mash around I suppose (taken from Wikipedia article on Descartes' meditations):

Argument 1

1. Something cannot come from nothing.
2. The cause of an idea must have at least as much formal reality as the idea has objective reality.
3. I have in me an idea of God. This idea has infinite objective reality.
4. I cannot be the cause of this idea, since I am not an infinite and perfect being. I don't have enough formal reality. Only an infinite and perfect being could cause such an idea.
5. So God — a being with infinite formal reality — must exist (and be the source of my idea of God).
6. An absolutely perfect being is a good, benevolent being.
7. So God is benevolent.
8. So God would not deceive me and would not permit me to error without giving me a way to correct my errors.

Argument 2

1. I exist [cogito ergo sum].
2. My existence must have a cause.
3. The cause must be either:

a) myself
b) my always having existed
c) my parents
d) something less perfect than God
e) God

4. Not a. If I had created myself, I would have made myself perfect.
5. Not b. This does not solve the problem. If I am a dependent being, I need to be continually sustained by another.
6. Not c. This leads to an infinite regress.
7. Not d. The idea of perfection that exists in me cannot have originated from a non-perfect being.
8. Therefore, e. God exists.

 

[torchbearer]

Sorry, I "sense" it on a regular basis and I discuss those sensations with others who share them. Who are you to declare this make-believe?

Besides, there are incidents of precognition and other insights that reflect God's interaction with my physical world. I have experienced them, others have experienced them. There is no point in discussing this with you because you don't want to accept my sensations of Spirit as real.

What separates your "Sense" of god and the sense of a schizo or dementia patient?
I have a friend who believe he is from "God"s time office. He is really 5 billion years old, and often fights with his older self.
His name on earth is Trent, his name in the future is Chronos. He is a titan. He has many wives, who visit him in this time. He has large beast pets that play with his feet while he tries to watch TV. Now you can't see them in the physical. But to him, they are indeed real.
Perhaps you two should meet.

 

[ClayTrainor]

Sorry, I "sense" it on a regular basis and I discuss those sensations with others who share them. Who are you to declare this make-believe?

People claim to "sense" ghosts all the time, as well. That doesn't make it true.

You have never talked to, heard from or had a conversation with this god you speak of. Why? because, i haven't, and you don't hold any special powers that i don't, we are both human.

Besides, there are incidents of precognition and other insights that reflect God's interaction with my physical world. I have experienced them, others have experienced them.

I don't believe you, or the people you refer to have any clue as to what they're talking about, as i'm sure none of them have provided any hard evidence.

I've experienced my fair share of psychedelic experiences. Neurotransmitters are powerful things, and can lead you to a path of enlightenment but they certainly aren't proof of god

If you want to actually have communication with GOD, the real GOD not the religious cult leader, go smoke some DMT, and all will become clear to you, and you'll stop this illogical bullshit.

God is everything, but he is not a separate entity from you or me. Me and you are god, this universe is god.

There is no point in discussing this with you because you don't want to accept my sensations of Spirit as real.

Claiming you have sensations, is not evidence or proof. I personally, am not a faithful person, and i require facts and evidence before i 'believe' in anything.

 

[Arnack]

I called it experience, not feeing - the existance of these same experiences in other religions supports the argument that they are real.

These "feelings" or "experiences" as you call it, can be reproduced in a science laboratory. I believe it's the release of chemicals in your brain. And as I said, this 'experience' does indeed exist, no denying. Like I said, it can be found in all religions (and outside).

 

[torchbearer]

These "feelings" or "experiences" as you call it, can be reproduced in a science laboratory. I believe it's the release of chemicals in your brain. And as I said, this 'experience' does indeed exist, no denying. Like I said, it can be found in all religions (and outside).

can be found in mental patients too.

 

[Meatwasp]

What separates your "Sense" of god and the sense of a schizo or dementia patient?
I have a friend who believe he is from "God"s time office. He is really 5 billion years old, and often fights with his older self.
His name on earth is Trent, his name in the future is Chronos. He is a titan. He has many wives, who visit him in this time. He has large beast pets that play with his feet while he tries to watch TV. Now you can't see them in the physical. But to him, they are indeed real.
Perhaps you two should meet.

Okay how do you explain this. You probably know I live in the wilderness and when we were going out to do some shopping one day. We spotted some small rocks on the road My husband stopped the jeep and he and our small sons jumped off to help move the rocks.. Out of the blue I screamed for us to get out of there. My husband listened to me as I seemed to have an inner sense that something bad would happen. When we came back from town the road crew were pushing a huge boulder the size of our jeep right where we had stopped. Am I God that knew this?. I have saved my family many times from disasters , with widow makers, falling trees the works. Am I God or did a higher force warn me. ? .

 

[Conza88]

*yawwwwwwwn*

 

[Meatwasp]

*yawwwwwwwn*

you're so pathetic I am beginning to feel sorry for you, Honestly

 

[heavenlyboy34]

you're so pathetic I am beginning to feel sorry for you, Honestly

Actually, he's one of the most logical folks on RPFs. (just a lil' bit rude sometimes)

 

[ClayTrainor]

Okay how do you explain this. You probably know I live in the wilderness and when we were going out to do some shopping one day. We spotted some small rocks on the road My husband stopped the jeep and he and our small sons jumped off to help move the rocks.. Out of the blue I screamed for us to get out of there. My husband listened to me as I seemed to have an inner sense that something bad would happen. When we came back from town the road crew were pushing a huge boulder the size of our jeep right where we had stopped. Am I God that knew this?. I have saved my family many times from disasters , with widow makers, falling trees the works. Am I God or did a higher force warn me. ? .

Why doesn't he warn the thousands upon thousands of children in Iraq, who've died from random incidents, since the invasion?

Why didn't god warn my good friend travis about that car that ran a red, and killed him?

Why didn't god warn the doctor, who accidently overdosed my cousin's 10 year old friend with anesthetic, and killed her?

Fuck your god, if he cares more about your family than the above... no offence, i will just never worship or believe in the existence of a god that plays favorites, unless he confronts me himself

 

[Meatwasp]

Why doesn't he warn the thousands upon thousands of children in Iraq, who've died from random incidents, since the invasion?

Why didn't god warn my good friend travis about that car that ran a red, and killed him?

Why didn't god warn the doctor, who accidently overdosed my cousin's 10 year old friend with anesthetic, and killed her?

Fuck your god, if he cares more about your family than the above... no offence, i will just never worship or believe in the existence of a god that plays favorites, unless he confronts me himself

Why didn't he warn my husband and three boys . Why did he just warn me? They didn't have to be warned in Iraq they knew it was coming. They should have fled is the only thing I have to say. Your friend was not alert. He was not in present time. If he had been he would have felt it. Who knows why things happen.

 

[ClayTrainor]

Why didn't he warn my husband and three boys . Why did he just warn me? They didn't have to be warned in Iraq they knew it was coming. They should have fled is the only thing I have to say. Your friend was not alert. He was not in present time. If he had been he would have felt it. Who knows why things happen.

A million possibilities, and "God" is only one of them

the key word you use here was "alert". You were obviously very alert, during your situations, my friend was not. This in no way proves a god exists, to anyone but yourself, and personally... i think you probably just have good instincts and perhaps a lucky charm up your ass.

I've avoided many close calls before. I've almost died multiple times, but narrowly avoided it. Never once did god give me a sign, or a warning... and believe me, i was alert during some of these situations. Very alert.

 

[Arnack]

A million possibilities, and "God" is only one of them

I'd say so. It's just not logical to blame all actions on this world on a omniscient, omnipresent, proactive thinking "God"

 

[Meatwasp]

I'd say so. It's just not logical to blame all actions on this world on a omniscient, omnipresent, proactive thinking "God"

Okay it could have been my dad warning me. He may have been my guardian Angel
How would I have known about the boulder or the rest of the warnings I got.
Actually I am tired of trying to explain what happened to me, I thought a new fresh view point would be nice ,but no use putting forward this when people are so ridged.. Go ahead think what you may on your beliefs, no one actually cares as long as you feel comfortable that is what counts. Right?

 

[pacelli]

I'd say so. It's just not logical to blame all actions on this world on a omniscient, omnipresent, proactive thinking "God"

That's correct. Furthermore, when people break the law, it is logical to expect a penalty.

 

[Arnack]

Okay it could have been my dad warning me. He may have been my guardian Angel
How would I have known about the boulder or the rest of the warnings I got.
Actually I am tired of trying to explain what happened to me, I thought a new fresh view point would be nice ,but no use putting forward this when people are so ridged.. Go ahead think what you may on your beliefs, no one actually cares as long as you feel comfortable that is what counts. Right?

What you said doesn't actually prove that there is a god. It just simply proved that something HIGHLY unlikely happened to you- which is going to happen in a world with 6 billion people + and so many things going on at once.

 

[ClayTrainor]

Okay it could have been my dad warning me. He may have been my guardian Angel

It also could've been, Charles smith 1924-1959, who f'in knows...

How would I have known about the boulder or the rest of the warnings I got.

it must have been god!

Actually I am tired of trying to explain what happened to me, I thought a new fresh view point would be nice ,but no use putting forward this when people are so ridged..

well, your little experiences in no way represent any sort of evidence to the existence of god, which is the title of this thread. "Proof of God".

I'm simply telling you that you've provided no evidence of god, but go ahead and believe at your own will.

Go ahead think what you may on your beliefs, no one actually cares as long as you feel comfortable that is what counts. Right?

For sure, believe what you want, but this is a discussion for "proof" of god.

I'm simply saying your experiences sound similar to my own near-death experiences, and i never got a warning, but i had lots of "Feelings" as well, and was wise enough to avoid certain death.

 

[Conza88]

you're so pathetic I am beginning to feel sorry for you, Honestly

Your feelings mean nothing to me. Carry on.

But an important question, why does me considering this thread as pathetic, make me pathetic?

Edit: OHHH you thought I was talking about you or referring to your post! How egotistical!

No, I didn't read what you wrote if that makes you feel any better? In fact, I haven't read anything in this thread, besides seeing if anyone responded to my post... which I regret having made, because this thread then shows up as an eye sore constantly...

 

[sevin]

Your feelings mean nothing to me. Carry on.

But an important question, why does me considering this thread as pathetic, make me pathetic?

Edit: OHHH you thought I was talking about you or referring to your post! How egotistical!

No, I didn't read what you wrote if that makes you feel any better? In fact, I haven't read anything in this thread, besides seeing if anyone responded to my post... which I regret having made, because this thread then shows up as an eye sore constantly...

lol