Politico: Occupy Wall Street crashes Ron Paul event

[Canderson]

They refused to comply with the police. Pepper spray is preferable to physical removal, less violence.

http://youtu.be/HaeCqChRQms

The kids were sitting in a line. I guess this was some military grade pepper spray or something and police regulation permitted use only when threatened with force and when 40 ft away. One kid had to spend the night in the hospital after suffering nerve damage from being zip tied so tight they couldn't cut him free without taking skin. This is excessive force by the police, and the fact that it was ordered by the chancelor of the university is pretty bad.

 

[Brett85]

Of course they are. Telling someone that you're selling them pearls when you're selling them swine is defrauding the person.

Then the person who actually did the defrauding should go to jail. We have laws against that that should be enforced. When did anybody ever argue that corporations should be allowed to get away with illegal activity?

 

[kylejack]

Then the person who actually did the defrauding should go to jail. We have laws against that that should be enforced. When did anybody ever argue that corporations should be allowed to get away with illegal activity?

I'm glad you finally agree with me that G-S execs should be prosecuted. However, fraud not covered by the law is also unethical.

 

[Brett85]

Should corporations commit genocide in pursuit of profit in a country where genocide by corporations is legal, and the genocide would result in a big profit? Have the executives committed an unethical act by ordering or participating in that genocide?

If you answer yes, you're a heavy Lawful Evil and there's not much that can be said until you come around ethically.

That's a ridiculous analogy. Name a country where genocide is actually legal.

 

[gls]

Of course they are. Telling someone that you're selling them pearls when you're selling them swine is defrauding the person.

Oh so it's the corporations who pass the laws that benefit them? No it is the U.S. Congress -- aka the government. That is where the problem lies. End big government, end legalized corporate fraud. It's that simple.

This argument is a probably a waste of time. I am the farthest thing from a shill for big, connected corporations. I just would rather people wake up and get at the root of the problem instead of keep doubling down on the same mistake.

 

[69360]

http://youtu.be/HaeCqChRQms

The kids were sitting in a line. I guess this was some military grade pepper spray or something and police regulation permitted use only when threatened with force and when 40 ft away. One kid had to spend the night in the hospital after suffering nerve damage from being zip tied so tight they couldn't cut him free without taking skin. This is excessive force by the police, and the fact that it was ordered by the chancelor of the university is pretty bad.

They should have moved.

 

[kylejack]

That's a ridiculous analogy. Name a country where genocide is actually legal.

There are historical examples. Here's some companies, some of which were aware of the Holocaust, who participated in supplying it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_the_Holocaust

But the question is really a hyperbolic mental exercise which is meant to make you consider a very important question: Is violating the rights of others acceptable ethically if there is no law against it, or no authority willing to enforce the law? The correct answer is No.

 

[kylejack]

Oh so it's the corporations who pass the laws that benefit them? No it is the U.S. Congress -- aka the government. That is where the problem lies. End big government, end legalized corporate fraud. It's that simple.

People who violate the rights of others are wicked completely absent of any law. If there's no government and no laws and you kill me for no reason or for pure self-gain you're a bad guy. Laws attempt to enforce these ethical values, but absent a law, violating someone's rights is still bad.

 

[Brett85]

There are historical examples. Here's some companies, some of which were aware of the Holocaust, who participated in supplying it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_the_Holocaust

But the question is really a hyperbolic mental exercise which is meant to make you consider a very important question: Is violating the rights of others acceptable ethically if there is no law against it, or no authority willing to enforce the law? The correct answer is No.

Is it acceptable ethically? Of course not. But is there anything the government could do to "punish" those corporations? Of course not, since the government actually created the immoral policies.

 

[seraphson]

Ron handled that situation perfectly. He did not back down but did not pander either.

This I agree with. Essentially it was a win-win. Now if we could get every single "occupier" to vote for Ron Paul as that's the man they truly seek whether they do or don't know it yet.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Bad guys do bad things and use the similar actions of other bad guys to justify their actions.

Goldman CEO Lloyd Blankfein lied to Congress under oath. Perjury carries a federal penalty of up to 5 years. Think he'll ever be prosecuted or serve a day? Of course not.

The poor man was doing God's work, and all crazed liberals like you can do is hate on the American way.

When you are the top criminal, you can only compare yourself to God.

 

[JK/SEA]

it was for their own protection....''you might get hurt sitting there, so we have to assault you now''

 

[agorist ninja]

This thread is still going strong, I see.

Really...

 

[Canderson]

They should have moved.

I agree, but if they don't they shouldn't be assaulted in the process of being removed. The funny thing is the police stepped of the human circle, removed the tents they were ordered to remove, came back and sprayed the students then left. The students were stupid for violating the school administration by being there, but the police acted with overwhelming force and violated their own regulations. It would be like a cop pulling you over for speeding giving you a ticket, then pulling you out of the car and tazing you.

Yes the Chancelor is responsible for the school and had the right to ask the police to intervene to inforce the schools property rights, but that doesn't justify assault. Thats like saying the shootings at Kent State were justified due to property rights.

 

[kylejack]

Is it acceptable ethically? Of course not. But is there anything the government could do to "punish" those corporations? Of course not, since the government actually created the immoral policies.

You're jumping ahead to something totally different. You were arguing that acting legally is acting ethically. In particular, you quoted and agreed with "The corporations are not violating the rights of people." In fact, some corporations have violated the rights of people while still staying within the letter of the law. The law does not yet cover all unethical actions (probably never will).

 

[JK/SEA]

This thread is still going strong, I see.

Really...

slow day. wait till tuesday.

 

[gls]

People who violate the rights of others are wicked completely absent of any law. If there's no government and no laws and you kill me for no reason or for pure self-gain you're a bad guy. Laws attempt to enforce these ethical rules, but absent a law, violating someone's rights is still bad.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. But the situation we are dealing with is much more ambiguous. The government has grown to such a point where a corporation that refuses to look out for their interests as much as possible is writing its own obituary.

 

[Brett85]

You're jumping ahead to something totally different. You were arguing that acting legally is acting ethically. In particular, you quoted and agreed with "The corporations are not violating the rights of people." In fact, some corporations have violated the rights of people while still staying within the letter of the law. The law does not yet cover all unethical actions (probably never will).

Well, the conversation went from corporations who take taxpayer money to corporations that actually kill people. That's a pretty big jump. It's not any more unethical for a corporation to take taxpayer money than it is for a welfare recepient to take taxpayer money.

 

[satchelmcqueen]

Several posters have identified OWS protesters cheering in the video. I'm taking their word for it.

keep your eye on the main guy in the red. he applauds ron after he gives his response.

 

[speciallyblend]

Ginger Gibson reports:



http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68868.html


Update: tube

this is great,maybe the 99% come to all the ron paul gatherings!! Seems like the ows folks there were just fine and responded to ron pauls answer just fine! This is a positive!