People that formerly ridiculed conspiracy theories check in!

[Suzu]

To you folks who insist that it's not possible for thousands of people in government to keep a secret: Tell me how they managed it with the Manhattan Project, for starters.

 

[lucius]

To you folks who insist that it's not possible for thousands of people in government to keep a secret: Tell me how they managed it with the Manhattan Project, for starters.

From the “Moorer Commission” (Chaired by Adm. Moorer) investigated the attack [USS Liberty] and made the following findings:

“We, the undersigned, having undertaken an independent investigation of Israel's attack on USS Liberty, including eyewitness testimony from surviving crewmembers, a review of naval and other official records, an examination of official statements by the Israeli and American governments, a study of the conclusions of all previous official inquiries, and a consideration of important new evidence and recent statements from individuals having direct knowledge of the attack or the cover up, hereby find the following:

7. That although Liberty was saved from almost certain destruction through the heroic efforts of the ship's Captain, William L. McGonagle (MOH), and his brave crew, surviving crewmembers were later threatened with "court-martial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed the truth; and were abandoned by their own government;

8. That due to the influence of Israel's powerful supporters in the United States, the White House deliberately covered up the facts of this attack from the American people;

9. That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, this attack remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated by Congress; to this day, no surviving crewmember has been permitted to officially and publicly testify about the attack;

11. That the truth about Israel's attack and subsequent White House cover-up continues to be officially concealed from the American people to the present day and is a national disgrace;

Who made up the “Moorer Commission”,

“In 2003, an independent commission of highly regarded experts was created to look into the matter. The Commission consisted of Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, United States Navy (Ret.), Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff; General Raymond G. Davis, United States Marine Corps, (MOH), Former Assistant Commandant of The Marine Corps; Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, United States Navy (Ret.), Former Judge Advocate General Of The Navy; and Ambassador James Akins (Ret.), Former United States Ambassador to Saudi Arabia.”

If you want to read the complete “Moorer Commission” go here (it is kind of ugly because I was emphasizing certain parts): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=102868&postcount=173

 

[Suzu]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Why? Normal evidence should be enough. Do weak claims only require weak evidence? This statement is pure nonsense.

 

[Anti Federalist]

LoL... +rep for the timely resurrection.

 

[PeacePlan]

I just hope you all consider that it may be a conspiracy to reveal all this stuff. Wikileaks 9/11 Federal Reserve Bankers Bailouts etc. may all be a part of a plan to get the public worked up?

Right now I don't trust anything as I am trying to figure out the grand plan, if there is one?

 

[agar]

When i saw how ron paul was ignored and marginalized in 2008, even after raking in millions, it became clear to me that someone, or some group, ordered that he be ignored.

Now, FOX news just did a feature called "12 in 2012" and talked about 12 GOP potential candidates. Ron was not mentioned! If thats not proof of pure, conspiratorial manipulation of public opinion then I dont know what is!

On the hand, candidate Obama, a man who never even held a real job, was on the cover of Time mag a record 13 times in 2008!! Come on. You cant tell me that people aren't pulling strings.

 

[Agorism]

I always suggest we move their threads to hot topics.

 

[amy31416]

When i saw how ron paul was ignored and marginalized in 2008, even after raking in millions, it became clear to me that someone, or some group, ordered that he be ignored.

Now, FOX news just did a feature called "12 in 2012" and talked about 12 GOP potential candidates. Ron was not mentioned! If thats not proof of pure, conspiratorial manipulation of public opinion then I dont know what is!

On the hand, candidate Obama, a man who never even held a real job, was on the cover of Time mag a record 13 times in 2008!! Come on. You cant tell me that people aren't pulling strings.

In all fairness to Obama, most politicians have never held a real job.

 

[Fox McCloud]

I'm actually on the opposite end of the spectrum here---I've become more and more skeptical of the few conspiracy theories that I previously thought were valid.

That said, some "conspiracy theories" that are well documented (such as the Fed being a pet for American banking interests) I still think have meat to them and are valid.

 

[mczerone]

Conspiracy Theory: The first shot fired at Kent State was from a gov't agent provocateur, under orders from supervisors.

Fact: The FBI ordered an undercover agent to fire first from the line of peaceful protesters to instigate the national guard to open fire.

Relevance? It appears that there isn't any, except the conspiracy theorists getting to say "told you so".

That's my biggest problem with this conspiracy stuff: even if it turns out to be true, what is the difference? If 9/11 was an inside job, what does going around now yelling about it accomplish? If anything it will be proved right in another 35 years when nobody cares anymore. More likely it will forever languish in a state of uncertainty, and all the shouting will have been for nothing.

Conspiracy theorists also always seem to fall back on "we have to get the government to tell us the truth!". I'm sorry to say that the truth will never be known about anything as long as the government exists. They'll always be able to cover up information and their word will always be subject to crazy theorizing. STRIKE THE ROOT: ABOLISH THE MONOPOLY OF FORCE. Only then can theories be objectively tested by observing the market of ideas. The government distorts that market far more than they distort the money and interest markets - and we can see how much money they print.

 

[AxisMundi]

Fess up! Have you formerly made fun at conspiracy theorists and are now thinking maybe they aren't so far off as you thought?

Which conspiracies? There are a lot out there.

Liberal Death Panels? Debunked.
American g'ment involvement in 9/11? Debunked.
9/11 a controlled demolition? Debunked.
BHO not a US Citizen? Debunked.
Some liberal/conservative (take your pick) agenda to destroy the nation? Debunked.
et cetera ad nauseam, feel free to name a few.

 

[mport1]

Have ridiculed most conspiracy theories and will continue to do so. I find most of them to have no solid facts behind them and that they do absolutely nothing to advance the ideas of liberty (and in fact harm the cause of advancing these ideas).

 

[Anti Federalist]

Conspiracy theorists also always seem to fall back on "we have to get the government to tell us the truth!". I'm sorry to say that the truth will never be known about anything as long as the government exists. They'll always be able to cover up information and their word will always be subject to crazy theorizing. STRIKE THE ROOT: ABOLISH THE MONOPOLY OF FORCE. Only then can theories be objectively tested by observing the market of ideas. The government distorts that market far more than they distort the money and interest markets - and we can see how much money they print.

Pardon me for being shitty about this, but this is getting tiresome...

You said:

"STRIKE THE ROOT: ABOLISH THE MONOPOLY OF FORCE".

Now then, just how the fuck do you propose to do that, if you cannot convince people that government lies, covers up and murders on a regular basis???

If you cannot convince people of that fact, then they will remain locked into thinking that government will really work for them, just as soon as they get enough of "their" people into it.

Yeah, real smart, ignore government's track record on it's abuse of it's monopoly of force that you want to get rid of??!!

For Fuck's Sake....

 

[Marenco]

 

[StilesBC]

Pardon me for being shitty about this, but this is getting tiresome...

You said:

Now then, just how the fuck do you propose to do that, if you cannot convince people that government lies, covers up and murders on a regular basis???

If you cannot convince people of that fact, then they will remain locked into thinking that government will really work for them, just as soon as they get enough of "their" people into it.

Yeah, real smart, ignore government's track record on it's abuse of it's monopoly of force that you want to get rid of??!!

For Fuck's Sake....

There's lots of ways to convince people that big government is bad. Pounding the table on many of the main "propositions" of Austrian economics, for example. Exposing governments as a bunch of children through dissemination of information is another way (eg. Wikileaks). Even leading by example through entrepreneurship and philanthropy can help change some people's minds about commonly demonized things such as "profit."

If someone is starting with the assumption that "government is here to help us", then attacking that belief with the most egregious violations is simply too much for many. Their minds turn off. They find defensive mechanisms that minimize its impact - or worse, they entrench current beliefs. For most, starting with something like the economic calculation debate can be far more productive. If they don't already have a prior emotional bias, they'll be more likely to listen. Then, after many years of observation they may be willing to accept that governments may be so self-interested that they would go to the extent of killing their own people to preserve their power.

 

[teacherone]

i got your liberal death panel right here:





it's not a conspiracy but a fact that government run healthcare will have to include government bureaucrats ON A PANEL of some sorts deciding which treatments will be affordable and effective (in their eyes) and which shall be denied and discontinued.

Which conspiracies? There are a lot out there.

Liberal Death Panels? Debunked.
American g'ment involvement in 9/11? Debunked.
9/11 a controlled demolition? Debunked.
BHO not a US Citizen? Debunked.
Some liberal/conservative (take your pick) agenda to destroy the nation? Debunked.
et cetera ad nauseam, feel free to name a few.

 

[lynnf]

wrong, wrong, wrong

Which conspiracies? There are a lot out there.

Liberal Death Panels? Debunked.
American g'ment involvement in 9/11? Debunked.
9/11 a controlled demolition? Debunked.
BHO not a US Citizen? Debunked.
Some liberal/conservative (take your pick) agenda to destroy the nation? Debunked.
et cetera ad nauseam, feel free to name a few.

the gullibility is appalling. just because someone writes a diatribe of opposition doesn't mean that they debunked something. you are wrong on all counts in your list. come back when you grow up.

lynn

 

[jmhudak17]

Obviously the reptilians that shot JFK did 9/11 and then helped Obama hide that he's not a US citizen

 

[Peace&Freedom]

Obviously the reptilians that shot JFK did 9/11 and then helped Obama hide that he's not a US citizen

More likely, obviously 19 anti-conspiracy towelheads in a cave used weapons of mass destruction to shoot down weather balloons with magic bullets.

 

[Peace&Freedom]

Have ridiculed most conspiracy theories and will continue to do so. I find most of them to have no solid facts behind them and that they do absolutely nothing to advance the ideas of liberty (and in fact harm the cause of advancing these ideas).

And those who are open minded will continue to be persuaded due to the massive evidence that has been put forward. Clearly you have an emotional, not rational investment in opposing conspiracy. I never believed in the conspiracy theory that 19 Arabs pulled off 9-11 by themselves, including causing NORAD to stand down, setting up nanothemite in the WTC, etc---but I don't spend tons of time aggressively demeaning or ridiculing everyone who does.

The anti-conspiracy stance of some appears to be rooted in a desire to feel superior to "those" people. This faux superiority complex also tends to make them accept whatever the government's official story is on face value (that is, without evidence), lest they must stoop to becoming one of "those" people who question the story. As for liberty, you can't defend it properly without squarely addressing and disposing of tyranny's lies and deceptions. The truth shall set you free.