People that formerly ridiculed conspiracy theories check in!

[pcosmar]

Well I have heard some bizarre theories, And in the beginning (9/11) I did pretty much buy the story, but had questions. (like WTF NORAD?)
I did argue against the Holographic Disguised Cruse missile Theory. However with my general distrust of government, I did keep my eyes and ears open.
I make no claim of knowing exactly what happened and who all were involved. Only that the official story stinks worse than a Haiti fishing dock.

Some folks here sound like the classmates of my youth when I was researching Laser Technology.

"LOL, Lazors,,What a waste of time. Lazors will never be anything. Stupid Geek."

 

[mczerone]

Antifederalist:Pardon me for being shitty about this, but this is getting tiresome...

You said:
"STRIKE THE ROOT: ABOLISH THE MONOPOLY OF FORCE".
Now then, just how the fuck do you propose to do that, if you cannot convince people that government lies, covers up and murders on a regular basis???

If you cannot convince people of that fact, then they will remain locked into thinking that government will really work for them, just as soon as they get enough of "their" people into it.

Yeah, real smart, ignore government's track record on it's abuse of it's monopoly of force that you want to get rid of??!!

For Fuck's Sake....

If you really want to convince people that the govt lies, stick to the facts. Leave 9/11 and JFK/RFK theories at home, and just bring up the proven lies: The Gulf of Tonken (sp?), the Kent State shooting I mentioned, the basis of the second Iraq war.

Even better, bring up the absurdity of the things that aren't even lied about: the drug war harming poor and minorities and creating violence; the massive military industrial complex that is by no means "defensive"; the insolvency of Social Security; the fact that central govt acts as a lightning rod for rent-seeking and creates regulations that harm small competitors; the inefficiency and injustice of the police and courts; and I could go on and on!

There might be a certain point when people actually start questioning the benevolence of govt when you can bring up that it is likely that 9/11 was an inside job in your opinion - but I don't see how this can be used as a starting point for anyone to start to question the legitimacy or constitutionality of the current govt.

FFS, I specifically did not say to "ignore their track record", I said to stay away from the allegations that haven't been PROVEN to be a legitimate black mark on their record. Get it now?

 

[nandnor]

Have ridiculed most conspiracy theories and will continue to do so. I find most of them to have no solid facts behind them and that they do absolutely nothing to advance the ideas of liberty (and in fact harm the cause of advancing these ideas).

This is such a common argument against govt conspiracy theories, but it is totally misinterpreting the situation. You see, when the very organiser of the conspiracy has full capability to prevent information related to it even getting out(as is case with govt conspiracies) then not having solid info against them is totally expected

 

[AxisMundi]

i got your liberal death panel right here:





it's not a conspiracy but a fact that government run healthcare will have to include government bureaucrats ON A PANEL of some sorts deciding which treatments will be affordable and effective (in their eyes) and which shall be denied and discontinued.

Paul Krugman authored a manual the government did not choose to use.

The man was simply trying to get the g'ment to buy HIS version by inventing death panels, and you bought into it hook, line, and sinker.

 

[AxisMundi]

the gullibility is appalling. just because someone writes a diatribe of opposition doesn't mean that they debunked something. you are wrong on all counts in your list. come back when you grow up.

lynn

Offer your proof.

I already exampled death panels in my previous post.
G'ment involvement in 9/11 is simply absurd, and no proof offered.
Each and every thing offered to support demolishion is easily debunked.
BHO is an American citizen, deal with it. He even offered a legal document godd enough to obtain a US passport, and any other service offered by our g'ment to US citizens.
Some liberal/conservative plot (pick one) to destroy America. Each party is acting in what it considers is the best interest of this Nation. The fact that each party has policies that are damaging is moot.


So, feel free to name more, or offer evidence to contradict what I posted.

 

[AxisMundi]

And those who are open minded will continue to be persuaded due to the massive evidence that has been put forward. Clearly you have an emotional, not rational investment in opposing conspiracy. I never believed in the conspiracy theory that 19 Arabs pulled off 9-11 by themselves, including causing NORAD to stand down, setting up nanothemite in the WTC, etc---but I don't spend tons of time aggressively demeaning or ridiculing everyone who does.

The anti-conspiracy stance of some appears to be rooted in a desire to feel superior to "those" people. This faux superiority complex also tends to make them accept whatever the government's official story is on face value (that is, without evidence), lest they must stoop to becoming one of "those" people who question the story. As for liberty, you can't defend it properly without squarely addressing and disposing of tyranny's lies and deceptions. The truth shall set you free.

There is a world of difference between being open minded, and being mindless.

 

[vita3]

Back in 2002,I told a friend he was a nut to believe 911 was a false flag operation. i have since apologized to him

 

[Peace&Freedom]

There is a world of difference between being open minded, and being mindless.

A comeback that underlines my point.

 

[AxisMundi]

A comeback that underlines my point.

That conspiracy theorists mindlessly sway from unsupported fantasy to unsupported fantasy?

I can agree to that.

 

[Peace&Freedom]

Offer your proof.

I already exampled death panels in my previous post.
G'ment involvement in 9/11 is simply absurd, and no proof offered.
Each and every thing offered to support demolishion is easily debunked.
BHO is an American citizen, deal with it. He even offered a legal document godd enough to obtain a US passport, and any other service offered by our g'ment to US citizens.
Some liberal/conservative plot (pick one) to destroy America. Each party is acting in what it considers is the best interest of this Nation. The fact that each party has policies that are damaging is moot.


So, feel free to name more, or offer evidence to contradict what I posted.

You posted nothing, except closed-minded assertions. Alternative interpretations of data are not refutations of anything, yet trumpeted by non-conspiracy folks as final "debunking" of the other side. What is YOUR evidence that your counter-interpretations are superior, or stand up to the same level critical scrutiny you demand of conspiracy? There are over 275 different 9-11 issues. How can anybody sweepingly assert "everything is easily debunked" if they are really open minded? BHO did not provide a real BC, as even hospital staff have admitted, deal with it. Indonesian school records confirm he was an Indonesian citizen, meaning even if he had been born in Hawaii, he lost his constitutionally defined qualification to serve as President. As for 9/11:

1) FBI translator Sibel Edmonds has testified to seeing messages showing US agents were in communication with and providing instructions to Al Qaeda ON THE DAY OF 9-11-2001. Passing instructions to the alleged enemy on the day of the enemy's operation cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. Giving instructions suggests elements of the government were positively controlling the 9-11 operation, that is "made it happen."

2) Nanothermite*, a highly specialized substance strictly controlled by the US and UK governments, was found in the WTC wreckage. The mere presence of highly government-controlled demolition materials in the towers cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The nanothermite suggests elements of the government were rigged the WTC's collapse, that is "made it happen." *3 peer reviewed studies have confirmed nanothermite at the WTC.

3) Former Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta testified on a local incident he witnessed the morning of 9-11 that indicated Vice President Cheney admitted to being in a control position to call off "the operation" (attack on the Pentagon), but would not. Being in a position to actually CALL OFF an operation cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The admission suggests elements of the government were controlling the operation, that is "made it happen."

4) Troops were already mobilized to begin an attack on Afghanistan in early September 2001, BEFORE 9-11. White house staffers already had been given Cipro to combat Anthrax, BEFORE the anthrax attack occurred. The use of weapons-grade anthrax (that only the US and UK have), and prior troop position cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The anthrax and pre-9-11 troop movement suggests elements of the government were controlling the operation and its aftermath, that is "made it happen."

5) Indian intelligence traced the cell phone records of the head of Pakistani intelligence Mahmood Ahmed and determined he had wired $100,000 to lead hijacker Mohamed Atta THE WEEK OF 9/11. On 9/11 congressmen Bob Graham and Porter Goss were having breakfast with Ahmed. Funding the alleged enemy (CIA through ISI), and literally dining with the funding agent on the day of the operation cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The funding suggests elements of the government were positively controlling the 9-11 operation, that is "made it happen."

The rest of the unresolved issues are at:
http://killtown.911review.org/911smokingguns.html

 

[agar]

That conspiracy theorists mindlessly sway from unsupported fantasy to unsupported fantasy?

I can agree to that.

I think the idea of 19 kids with "boxcutters", out manuevering the US air defense system, and then causing three (thats right...THREE) skyscrapers to disintegrate at free fall speed is "unsupported fantasy."

 

[runningdiz]

There is different categories of conspiracy theory. I never doubted for a second that our government would and does kill innocent people from another country and try to cover it up by making another country confess to the murders. That does not surprise me, i would expect that of them and it takes no talent and intelligence to pull off.

False flag conspiracies such as 9/11 etc. require an immense amount of intelligence, synchronization, talent, and organization to pull them off. Which makes it hard for me to believe they were behind the entire thing since we see every day how the government is stupid, unorganized, and talentless.

 

[Agorism]

If you see a conspiracy theorist, try to get their posts put into hot topic bin.

 

[jmdrake]

You mean absurd theories about how fire can't melt, or even weaken, steel? About how it was impossible that large commercial airplanes crashing into WTC1 and WTC2 could not possibly have had anything to do with their collapse? About how it's impossible to make a cellphone call from an airplane? About how no plane hit the Pentagon despite hundreds of witnesses? I'm glad you're finally admitting Loose Change is absurd.

It has been proven now beyond a shadow of a doubt through actual experimentation that jet fuel cannot melt or significantly weaken steel.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvQDFV1HINw

It has also been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that thermate can cut horizontally through vertical beams and do so only making the small "popping" kind of explosions like the ones heard on 9/11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

What ultimately happened on 9/11? I don't know. All I know is that the 9/11 commission and NIST lied their butts off to cover that up.

 

[Travlyr]

Offer your proof.

Each and every thing offered to support demolishion is easily debunked.

So, feel free to name more, or offer evidence to contradict what I posted.

How do you debunk BBC reporting WTC Building 7 being demolished 20 minutes before it came down?

​

 

[LibForestPaul]

For those who do not believe in just how insane a government can go, just research Stasi from former East Germany.

 

[AxisMundi]

You posted nothing, except closed-minded assertions. Alternative interpretations of data are not refutations of anything, yet trumpeted by non-conspiracy folks as final "debunking" of the other side. What is YOUR evidence that your counter-interpretations are superior, or stand up to the same level critical scrutiny you demand of conspiracy? There are over 275 different 9-11 issues. How can anybody sweepingly assert "everything is easily debunked" if they are really open minded? BHO did not provide a real BC, as even hospital staff have admitted, deal with it. Indonesian school records confirm he was an Indonesian citizen, meaning even if he had been born in Hawaii, he lost his constitutionally defined qualification to serve as President.

1. BHO supplied a legal US document. Period. The same exact type of document you or I would use to procure any services limited to a US citizen, or supply as proof of eligibility to run for office. You loose.
2. BHO's step-father was an Indonesian citizen. As his mother never gave up her US citizenship, and BHO was born on US soil, BHO remained a US citizen. At worst, dual citizenship can be claimed, something that does not preclude eligibility for Office.

As for 9/11: 1) FBI translator Sibel Edmonds has testified to seeing messages showing US agents were in communication with and providing instructions to Al Qaeda ON THE DAY OF 9-11-2001. Passing instructions to the alleged enemy on the day of the enemy's operation cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. Giving instructions suggests elements of the government were positively controlling the 9-11 operation, that is "made it happen."

A fabrication, like all of the 9/11 conspiracy theory. Edmonds wasn't hired until AFTER 9/11. She was also unable to convince the 9/11 commission, or most of America.

2) Nanothermite*, a highly specialized substance strictly controlled by the US and UK governments, was found in the WTC wreckage. The mere presence of highly government-controlled demolition materials in the towers cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The nanothermite suggests elements of the government were rigged the WTC's collapse, that is "made it happen." *3 peer reviewed studies have confirmed nanothermite at the WTC.

Another fabrication. No thermites were not found on the site. Beams were cut with torches by the rescue workings, not with controlled demolition charges. This is the "evidence" offered by 9/11 conspirators.
http://www.motorsportsartist.com/911truthiness/?p=76

3) Former Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta testified on a local incident he witnessed the morning of 9-11 that indicated Vice President Cheney admitted to being in a control position to call off "the operation" (attack on the Pentagon), but would not. Being in a position to actually CALL OFF an operation cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The admission suggests elements of the government were controlling the operation, that is "made it happen."

Another fabrication, I'm afraid. The incident involves the destruction of the commercial airline heading for the pentagon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y

4) Troops were already mobilized to begin an attack on Afghanistan in early September 2001, BEFORE 9-11. White house staffers already had been given Cipro to combat Anthrax, BEFORE the anthrax attack occurred. The use of weapons-grade anthrax (that only the US and UK have), and prior troop position cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The anthrax and pre-9-11 troop movement suggests elements of the government were controlling the operation and its aftermath, that is "made it happen."

More fabrications. 1. The anthrax attacks were not the work of AQ, and no g'ment employees where given cipro just before the attacks. One could make a better argument that it was the GOP mailing the letters to get terrorized congressmen to vote on the PATRIOT Act )Not that I am, but it would make more sense) 2. Troop movements happen constantly. It is a preparatory exercise, and one reason why we have the finest military in the world. The only things these suggest is that conspirators must fabricate links where none exist to promote their fantasies.

5) Indian intelligence traced the cell phone records of the head of Pakistani intelligence Mahmood Ahmed and determined he had wired $100,000 to lead hijacker Mohamed Atta THE WEEK OF 9/11. On 9/11 congressmen Bob Graham and Porter Goss were having breakfast with Ahmed. Funding the alleged enemy (CIA through ISI), and literally dining with the funding agent on the day of the operation cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The funding suggests elements of the government were positively controlling the 9-11 operation, that is "made it happen."

The wired transaction occurred a year PRIOR to the 9/11 attacks.

BTW, did you not realize who first created, funded, and armed Osama and AQ to fight the Russians in Afstan?

The rest of the unresolved issues are at:
http://killtown.911review.org/911smokingguns.html

Might I suggest you do your own independent research, instead of parroting these wackos?

 

[AxisMundi]

How do you debunk BBC reporting WTC Building 7 being demolished 20 minutes before it came down?

​

How do you come up with the BBC claiming the building collapsed 20 minutes before it did?

 

[YumYum]

I agree with Carlin. Someone asked me: "Do you think that the powers at the top allow Ron Paul to attack the Fed because they know the Fed will collapse anyway, and they want the Fed to collapse so there will be a world central bank?" This had me thinking: Is Ron Paul being used and he doesn't even know it?

 

[AxisMundi]

It has been proven now beyond a shadow of a doubt through actual experimentation that jet fuel cannot melt or significantly weaken steel.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvQDFV1HINw

It has also been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that thermate can cut horizontally through vertical beams and do so only making the small "popping" kind of explosions like the ones heard on 9/11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

What ultimately happened on 9/11? I don't know. All I know is that the 9/11 commission and NIST lied their butts off to cover that up.

1. Yes, jet fuel can indeed impact the structural strength of steel. Steel melts at 1315F to 15,00f degrees (depending on the alloy mix), but looses structural stability at half that temperature, well within the range of jet fuel fires.

2. The steel beams where cut by rescue workers with torches, see photographs in the link I provided earlier.