PATRIOTS Have stormed capitol building - Masses Breached Barriers

[unknown]

The courts settled it. That's it.

Actually, thats not it.

The courts have upheld everything from slavery and Jim Crow laws to Japanese American concentration camps and gun control.

 

[A. Havnes]

Cause he's a Trump supporter, duh. What the hell happened to RPF? I didn't agree with everyone here on everything, but so many are behind Donald "Wish Ghislaine Well" Trump.

I'd say that there are definitely die-hard Trump supporters on the forum, but I think a lot of what people are happy about is that any kind of action against perceived corruption was taken. Trump has definitely perpetuated his fair share of corruption, but that still doesn't mean that there wasn't a concerted effort to suppress him in the election.

You can argue both ways whether or not election fraud happened on a scale that flipped the results in Biden's favor, but the nature of society today seems to be one not of discourse, but of screaming about canceling, conspiracy theorists, Russians, triggers, no-platforming, and that words are literal violence; so it's not like there's going to be an open space to look at what happened. This kind of environment is a perfect storm. People who feel cheated have no recourse, and the people who dislike them are bound and determined to not let them speak, either in the MSM or on social media.

Usually, people are content to wage an Internet war over opinions and facts before retreating into their echo chambers to reinforce to one another why they feel right, but what happened yesterday (and, arguably, all throughout the summer, whether you agree the police are out of control or that black people have it worse that white people) showed that Americans aren't quite yet a people ready to be an army of keyboard warriors who never face corruption outside of creating new hashtags for Twitter.

The country is at a breaking point, and a group of people who felt that they had been cheated and that the corruption ran too deep decided to do something about it. Was it effective? Probably not. Were there plants there? Definitely. But I think some of us are just encouraged that some decided to say something in a way that the media couldn't ignore.

Granted, now they'll likely be branded as terrorists (yet Antifa and BLM are considered peaceful...), and their actions may even turn out counterproductive, but it was definitely a change of pace.

As for your larger question, "What happened to RPF?" After the 2016 election, it forgot that it was a libertarian-leaning site where people believed in small government and no one cared if you were liberal or conservative on most social positions. Now I'm not on nearly as much as I used to be because it's definitely turned into a conservative-only site where everything is about suppressing the libs and dems.

 

[Invisible Man]

Some of them also stormed British vessels and destroyed property over a 3 cent tax on a pound of tea.

And let's not forget the Boston Massacre. Unsavory things are bound to happen when governance is unresponsive.

Those were important events. But the details of how they fit into the events of the American Revolution matter, and in turn so does the question of how reflective they are of any of the men we would typically consider "founding fathers."

No founding fathers participated directly in the Boston Massacre. And in the aftermath of it, founding father John Adams defended the British soldiers in court for having acted reasonably in response to agitators who I think we could compare to the Antifa stormers of the Capitol.

Did any founding fathers participate in the Boston Tea Party itself? As far as I know (and I'm no expert) history is unclear about Sam Adams' role in it. There's a popular story that has him as a major instigator who gave the signal to invade the ship. But its historicity is very suspect. It seems to me that the proper way to see the Boston Tea Party in the context of the Revolution is as an incitement for Britain to pass the Intolerable Acts, which in turn incentivized further rebellion in the colonies, but not as an act of the founding fathers.

 

[tod evans]

I have seen zero instances of this kind of eye opening here.

I do see a lot of deeper entrenchment in the divisions that already existed between the staunch supporters and staunch opponents of Trump. But no changing of any minds or opening of eyes.

The result I've seen that could conceivably be framed as opening of eyes is the opposite of what I think you may have dreamed up, which is that people who supported Trump, not as enthusiastic rally-going Trumpers, but as ordinary conservatives and Republicans who tolerated him as the lesser evil, which made up the majority of his voters, have had their eyes opened to how much worse he and his more zealous supporters were than they already thought, and are now more ashamed of the votes they cast for him than they already were.

But the crowd who stormed the Capitol (whoever they were, whether Antifa or not) haven't won people over to their cause (if they even have one) who weren't already in it.

No simpleton,

The people of whom I speak don't generally engage in politics, they have tended to leave politics to those with a vested interest.

Surely you've heard of the 40-50% of the population that doesn't vote.

Stop trying to pigeonhole me into a political faction, you'll fail miserably.

Government is broken and the people yesterday just pulled the veil back a little further.

Eyes were opened whether you realize it or not.

 

[RedLightning]

https://www.mom-at-arms.com/post/ho...owards-and-their-ideas-are-crap-in-4-pictures

Well to me some good came from yesterday.


"When governments fear the people, there is liberty.

 

[Sammy]

Trump lost. When you lose, you leave. The end. Only baboons disagree.

And I can see why you like Trump so much that you think it worth completely destroying the country over. He is a semi-socialist who panders to protectionist theocrats like you.

Feel free not to call me anti-American in future neg reps. The Founding Fathers were pro-reason educated elites. They would hate you.

You are anti american. You support open borders (White genocide!), International Free Trade deals & you support americans dying for israel.
I'm not a Theocrat but I support restoring christian values.

 

[Invisible Man]

I'd say that there are definitely die-hard Trump supporters on the forum, but I think a lot of what people are happy about is that any kind of action against perceived corruption was taken.

In order to frame this as any kind of action against perceived corruption, there has to be some connection between the action and the perceived corruption that goes deeper than that the perceived corruption merely caused the emotions that welled up in this action.

If I get unjustly fired and then get upset about it and punch a wall and break my fingers, that punching of the wall is not in any sense an action against my unjust firing.

This storming of the Capitol is no better.

In fact, look at how it actually related to actions that really did have to do with the perceived corruption. This happened on the very day that Congress was supposed to debate the merits of objections to slates of electors from several states. Those debates at least stood the chance of exposing corruption. The effects that storming the Capitol had on those more substantive actions that actually did relate to the perceived corruption were fourfold: it interrupted them, it forestalled them, it shortened them, and it drew away any attention that would have been paid to them. Meanwhile, the storming of the Capitol itself didn't address the perceived corruption in any way whatsoever.

 

[Invisible Man]

No simpleton,

The people of whom I speak don't generally engage in politics, they have tended to leave politics to those with a vested interest.

Surely you've heard of the 40-50% of the population that doesn't vote.

Stop trying to pigeonhole me into a political faction, you'll fail miserably.

Government is broken and the people yesterday just pulled the veil back a little further.

Eyes were opened whether you realize it or not.

I belong to that 40-50%. The only opening of eyes that has happened to people in this group is the increased awareness of how bad Trump and his more zealous followers are.

Your assertion about eyes being opened is just baseless dreaming on your part. Even your response to me betrays that. You haven't actually seen any eyes getting opened to anything by this. You just believe it because you wish it to be so.

I don't know where you got the idea that I was pigeon holing you into a political faction. But you won't find any basis for that inference in anything I actually said.

 

[Todd]

I'd say that there are definitely die-hard Trump supporters on the forum, but I think a lot of what people are happy about is that any kind of action against perceived corruption was taken. Trump has definitely perpetuated his fair share of corruption, but that still doesn't mean that there wasn't a concerted effort to suppress him in the election.

You can argue both ways whether or not election fraud happened on a scale that flipped the results in Biden's favor, but the nature of society today seems to be one not of discourse, but of screaming about canceling, conspiracy theorists, Russians, triggers, no-platforming, and that words are literal violence; so it's not like there's going to be an open space to look at what happened. This kind of environment is a perfect storm. People who feel cheated have no recourse, and the people who dislike them are bound and determined to not let them speak, either in the MSM or on social media.

Usually, people are content to wage an Internet war over opinions and facts before retreating into their echo chambers to reinforce to one another why they feel right, but what happened yesterday (and, arguably, all throughout the summer, whether you agree the police are out of control or that black people have it worse that white people) showed that Americans aren't quite yet a people ready to be an army of keyboard warriors who never face corruption outside of creating new hashtags for Twitter.

The country is at a breaking point, and a group of people who felt that they had been cheated and that the corruption ran too deep decided to do something about it. Was it effective? Probably not. Were there plants there? Definitely. But I think some of us are just encouraged that some decided to say something in a way that the media couldn't ignore.

Granted, now they'll likely be branded as terrorists (yet Antifa and BLM are considered peaceful...), and their actions may even turn out counterproductive, but it was definitely a change of pace.

As for your larger question, "What happened to RPF?" After the 2016 election, it forgot that it was a libertarian-leaning site where people believed in small government and no one cared if you were liberal or conservative on most social positions. Now I'm not on nearly as much as I used to be because it's definitely turned into a conservative-only site where everything is about suppressing the libs and dems.

 

[Anti Federalist]

They SHOULD have IGNORED Washington, D.C., and instead stormed their state capitols and demanded that their assemblies begin drafting articles of secession.

There was NO evidence displayed yesterday of any thoughtful opposition to Washington, D.C. Again, for as much as I can appreciate some element of their frustration, this was little more than an artless, mindless, impotent and juvenile outburst of anger.

Be glad you had nothing to do with it. The MAGA crowd is an untamed stallion, much like the rabble that made up the majority of the Revolutionary generation. You're a very bright and articulate man, AF. You should be spending your energies taming those of them within your reach, and herding them in the right direction. Not encouraging on their self-destructive behavior.

I appreciate the kind words, and I wish I could do that.

But it first takes action before action can be guided into something more positive, in cases like this.

I agree about the state capitols as well...I would love to see that, and at cop shops, and at citadels of government power everywhere.

Imagine a 1000 Bundy ranches every day.

 

[Anti Federalist]

 

[Occam's Banana]

People who don't agree with either the right or the left have been forced to admit that Big-Gov only serves itself and will never represent them.

What's more, the U.S. federal government cannot "represent" them, even if it sincerely wanted to. (It doesn't want to, of course, but even if it did ...)

It is simply not possible for a continent-spanning populace of a third of a billion people to be "represented" in any significant and meaningful way.

At best, democracy on such a scale merely conjures the illusion of "representation" as a facade for the executive plantation that actually runs things.

Over time, it can produce only an increasingly ridiculous farce that is as increasingly obvious as it is increasingly absurd.

And when the farce of democracy can no longer be maintained under the weight of its own absurdity, it is apt to be replaced by something even more illiberal and nakedly authoritarian.

 

[pcosmar]

Appears the girl shot was a vet and staunch Trump supporter. I would assume with so much video evidence they will be rounding up everyone they can and at that point we can see what organizations these people are from. I'd bet money Trump supporters outnumber all other groups combined.

Some Trump Supporters followed the Provocateurs.. angry Mob.
many shouted for them to stop when the Violent actors started..

The show inside was staged and the actors should all be charged for the Girls Death. They got her killed.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

What's more, the U.S. federal government cannot "represent" them, even if it sincerely wanted to. (It doesn't want to, of course, but even if it did ...)

It is simply not possible for a continent-spanning populace of a third of a billion people to be "represented" in any significant and meaningful way.

At best, democracy on such a scale merely conjures the illusion of "representation" as a facade for the executive plantation that actually runs things.

Over time, it can produce only an increasingly ridiculous farce that is as increasingly obvious as it is increasingly absurd.

And when the farce of democracy can no longer be maintained under the weight of its own absurdity, it is apt to be replaced by something even more illiberal and nakedly authoritarian.

ETA: I posted this and a few other subversive, secessionist videos/thoughts on FedBook. I'm seeking to harness the energy.

 

[Occam's Banana]

You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice.

 

[pcosmar]

Liberals pressure has forced Senior White House advisor and FDOTUS to delete her tweet using the word "Patriots".
.

Wrong.

antifa provocateurs are NOT Patriots.

she was correct in removing it.

 

[Invisible Man]

Wrong.

antifa provocateurs are NOT Patriots.

she was correct in removing it.

Agreed.

I'm still hoping this thread title gets changed.

 

[Okie RP fan]

1. Can you point to a specific example?
2. If so, do you actually side with the state department and MSM in that coverage?

Sure thing.

1: Google, of course, is acting funny for me. My search results appear to be skewed (particularly when I select their "News" category as everything listed is articles from yesterday's events despite my queries...), and I had to dig several pages in to bring up items that I know are covered elsewhere (RT, Al Jazeera in some cases, alternative news, etc.). I should also clarify when I said state department, what I really should have said was U.S. gov't and related institutions in general.

https://www.state.gov/supporting-iranian-voices/

https://www.state.gov/condemning-sham-elections-in-russia-controlled-eastern-ukraine/

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/15aid.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...ast-dictator-alexander-lukashenko-ncna1237472


I pulled up more sources than that stemming from the white house website when Obama/Biden were "running" things, particularly with regards to Ukraine, Russia, etc. and how the U.S. "stood with the people" blah, blah, blah. But, this should be a start, right? Otherwise, I would highly encourage you to partake the journey of seeking these things out yourself. After all, I don't need convincing, I know what I've heard and seen. If you need help, start with Belarus and their color revolution. That should be easy considering many of the MSM outlets were on board with it.


2: No, I do not. Barring the fact that I am here and have quite a history here and with the liberty movement, no, I don't support regime changes, color revolutions, U.S. military expeditions abroad, etc. It was simply an example of the utter hypocrisy and propaganda we undergo in this country.

 

[Anti Federalist]

What's more, the U.S. federal government cannot "represent" them, even if it sincerely wanted to. (It doesn't want to, of course, but even if it did ...)

It is simply not possible for a continent-spanning populace of a third of a billion people to be "represented" in any significant and meaningful way.

At best, democracy on such a scale merely conjures the illusion of "representation" as a facade for the executive plantation that actually runs things.

Over time, it can produce only an increasingly ridiculous farce that is as increasingly obvious as it is increasingly absurd.

And when the farce of democracy can no longer be maintained under the weight of its own absurdity, it is apt to be replaced by something even more illiberal and nakedly authoritarian.

Glory Hallelujah!

There you have it.

I owe you both rep.

 

[dannno]

Cause he's a Trump supporter, duh. What the hell happened to RPF? I didn't agree with everyone here on everything, but so many are behind Donald "Wish Ghislaine Well" Trump.

Uh, because most of us here clearly don't believe the fake news media like you do.

Trump wished Ghislaine well because he wanted her to stay alive, unlike Epstein, so she can testify against the deep state people she had blackmailed - although it is very possible, and many believe that Epstein is alive in witness protection, his death being a false flaggy kinda joke against the Clintons.