PATRIOTS Have stormed capitol building - Masses Breached Barriers

[Okie RP fan]

ETA: I posted this and a few other subversive, secessionist videos/thoughts on FedBook. I'm seeking to harness the energy.

No need to convince me here, but I'm also trying to start instituting this idea with family and friends.
Tucker Carlson (I do not watch Fox News, I only watched a snippit of his segment from last night) said America is made up of twins who can't be separated unless one kills the other. I'm not sure this is true and we can debate it until we're blue in the face but I do believe a few things in regard to secession and the U.S. today.

-We are not as homogenous as we used to be.
-We are not as religious/spiritual as we used to be.
-The common language of English has been de-prioritized on many fronts (I'm not arguing the merits of this, just stating something I believe has happened).
-We are a country of 330 million people ruled by two parties (really one in the grand scheme of things).
-The House of Representatives hasn't been appropriately expanded to accommodate population growth. (EDIT: just got to the argument in the video about this and it may now be a moot point)

I could go on, but I think that sums it up. Did you start a thread for this? Probably best to take this greater conversation to its own dedicated thread.

 

[Anti Federalist]

It is simply not possible for a continent-spanning populace of a third of a billion people to be "represented" in any significant and meaningful way.

It is not...I could not say it better.

That statement trebles in truth when you add to that the fact that the third of a billion people in question, are now, through deliberate treachery designed to end exactly as stated, with a collapse of "liberal democracy" into authoritarianism and absolute despotism, have become so disparate and utterly at odds with each other, the founding vision of the nation and it's history, so as to be, literally, at war with herself.

Separate or Die.

 

[Anti Federalist]

No need to convince me here, but I'm also trying to start instituting this idea with family and friends.
Tucker Carlson (I do not watch Fox News, I only watched a snippit of his segment from last night) said America is made up of twins who can't be separated unless one kills the other. I'm not sure this is true and we can debate it until we're blue in the face but I do believe a few things in regard to secession and the U.S. today.

-We are not as homogenous as we used to be.
-We are not as religious/spiritual as we used to be.
-The common language of English has been de-prioritized on many fronts (I'm not arguing the merits of this, just stating something I believe has happened).
-We are a country of 330 million people ruled by two parties (really one in the grand scheme of things).
-The House of Representatives hasn't been appropriately expanded to accommodate population growth.

I could go on, but I think that sums it up. Did you start a thread for this? Probably best to take this greater conversation to its own dedicated thread.

I watched his monologue last night.

My response was: "bullshit".

 

[Anti Federalist]

Agreed.

I'm still hoping this thread title gets changed.

Leave it just the way it is.

 

[tod evans]

I belong to that 40-50%. The only opening of eyes that has happened to people in this group is the increased awareness of how bad Trump and his more zealous followers are.

Your assertion about eyes being opened is just baseless dreaming on your part. Even your response to me betrays that. You haven't actually seen any eyes getting opened to anything by this. You just believe it because you wish it to be so.

I don't know where you got the idea that I was pigeon holing you into a political faction. But you won't find any basis for that inference in anything I actually said.

Conversations with friends-n-family that span the continent, actual telephone conversations, have lead me to make my assertion.

Granted the cross-section is small but the geographical and socioeconomic breadth is wide.

"People" are looking at government and media in a new light, at least as far as I can tell once I'm away from the 'puter.....

 

[Anti Federalist]

What happened today will be used by the people taking power to justify stripping you of the rights were born with as an American. Your right to speak without being censored, your right to assemble, to not be spied upon, to make a living, to defend your family, most critically. These are the most basic and ancient freedoms that we have. They are why we live here in the first place. They’re why we are proud to be Americans. They are what make us different, and they are all now in peril. When thousands of your countrymen storm the Capitol building, you don’t have to like it. We don’t. - Tucker Carlson 6 Jan 2021

That's one point where Carlson goes off the rails.

Every one of those rights has now been suppressed or nullified...including crucial rights supposedly protected by the bill of rights. We now regularly witness wholesale bans on speech, assembly and worship. Government surveillance is ubiquitous and constant and at levels never even conceived of by the very worst of tyrannical regimes of the past. Your right to defend yourself is dependent on Marxist prosecutors reading your mind, your right to earn a living does not exist, as government can shut it down whenever it feels like it.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

No need to convince me here, but I'm also trying to start instituting this idea with family and friends.
Tucker Carlson (I do not watch Fox News, I only watched a snippit of his segment from last night) said America is made up of twins who can't be separated unless one kills the other. I'm not sure this is true and we can debate it until we're blue in the face but I do believe a few things in regard to secession and the U.S. today.

-We are not as homogenous as we used to be.
-We are not as religious/spiritual as we used to be.
-The common language of English has been de-prioritized on many fronts (I'm not arguing the merits of this, just stating something I believe has happened).
-We are a country of 330 million people ruled by two parties (really one in the grand scheme of things).
-The House of Representatives hasn't been appropriately expanded to accommodate population growth. (EDIT: just got to the argument in the video about this and it may now be a moot point)

I could go on, but I think that sums it up. Did you start a thread for this? Probably best to take this greater conversation to its own dedicated thread.

Just posted it in the Philosophy/Policy Subforum, sir, per your suggestion.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

That's one point where Carlson goes off the rails.

Every one of those rights has now been suppressed or nullified...including crucial rights supposedly protected by the bill of rights. We now regularly witness wholesale bans on speech, assembly and worship. Government surveillance is ubiquitous and constant and at levels never even conceived of by the very worst of tyrannical regimes of the past. Your right to defend yourself is dependent on Marxist prosecutors reading your mind, your right to earn a living does not exist, as government can shut it down whenever it feels like it.

I think they'll use it as a pretext to drop the pussyfooting around. You're 100% right, but they still find themselves having to justify their actions, and still face some popular opposition here and there.

This, especially in the short run, will do away with all of that theater.

 

[Anti Federalist]

You may have nothing in common with the people on the other side of the country (increasingly, you probably don't), but you're stuck with them. The idea that groups of Americans will somehow break off into separate peaceful nations of like-minded citizens is a fantasy. The two hemispheres of this country are inseparably intertwined, like conjoined twins. Neither can leave without killing the other. As horrifying as this moment is, we have no option but to make it better, to gut it out. - Tucker Carlson 6 Jan 2021

No, we are NOT.

This idea that we are immutably and forever bound to roughly 130 - 200 million people that quite literally want us dead, is suicidal insanity, and it should be rejected at every turn and the people advocating the same, dismissed as dangerous cranks and lunatics.

Or in other words:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

 

[otherone]

I belong to that 40-50%. The only opening of eyes that has happened to people in this group is the increased awareness of how bad Trump and his more zealous followers are.

Mission accomplished.

How to solve a problem, Deep State style.

The Problem:
Dems lost seats to GOP challengers, riding you-know-who's coattails.
Half of the country is convinced the presidential election is fraudulent.
The GOP cannot return to swamp business as usual, without capitulating to MAGA supporters,
or risk splintering the party.
How to remove the ghost of Orange Man from politics?

The Solution:
Introduce crisis actors into a peaceful protest to "storm" the Capitol building, knowing full well the POTUS would put his foot in his mouth.
Have the media and yipping congressmen yip about how DJT incites domestic terrorism, stifling any of the "reasonable" Trump voters
(who wants to show support for the most heinous act in the history of American heinousity?), thereby killing any faint whiff of MAGA forever.
Watch today, as Republicans scramble to distance themselves from him.
As of 1/6/21, any support of non-RINO or DEM candidates is treason.

Will it work? IDK.

 

[nobody's_hero]

As for your larger question, "What happened to RPF?" After the 2016 election, it forgot that it was a libertarian-leaning site where people believed in small government and no one cared if you were liberal or conservative on most social positions. Now I'm not on nearly as much as I used to be because it's definitely turned into a conservative-only site where everything is about suppressing the libs and dems.

I will admit I've definitely grown more conservative as I've aged, but I don't see this as a "conservative only site." My internet explorer is still set to the default MSN homepage and I swear I can open the browser and type RPF into the address bar and see the same nonsense posted as threads that I saw published as headlines on the home page. (I know I should probably change it). If there's any suppression of liberals here, someone should tell the liberals.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Ivanka deletion of "Patriots" tweet and POTUS tweets below occured same time this chatter escalated:

US trade group asks VP Pence to ‘seriously consider’ invoking 25th Amendment to remove Trump

Top Republican asks Pence to invoke 25th Amendment...
Jay Timmons, the group’s president and CEO and a former executive director of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, pointed to the millions of people in manufacturing jobs who are working to fight the coronavirus pandemic, which brought on an economic recession.
Last year the group gave an award to Trump’s daughter Ivanka Trump for “extraordinary support” of manufacturing in America.

WASHINGTON, DC - JANUARY 06: U.S. Capitol Police stand detain protesters outside of the House Chamber during a joint session of Congress on January 06, 2021 in Washington, DC. Congress held a joint session today to ratify President-elect Joe Biden's


Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
1h
I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
2h
Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...28882595885058

Wrong.

antifa provocateurs are NOT Patriots.

she was correct in removing it.

Ok. Liberals were wrong in attacking her after she used the term "patriots" or something else was wrong with that statement?

Trump addressed "everyone" in his above tweet unlike Ivanka's tweet. Trump did not remove "we love you" but unforunately his twitter was suspended soon afterwards, so may not have had chance to delete any of his tweets.

Also going by your argument, then the term "patriots" in this thread title should also be replaced with "antifa" in your view?

Quote:
"Breaking : PATRIOTS Have stormed capitol building - Masses Breached Barriers"

 

[Anti Federalist]

I think they'll use it as a pretext to drop the pussyfooting around.

Good. That's going to happen sooner or later, might as well be now, on our terms.

How much "pussy footing" could be dropped anyway? Look at what they have done to us already. They are, literally, arresting us for having Christmas dinner with family. They have shut houses of worship, banned gatherings...on top of everything else. They arbitrarily and cruelly ruined millions of people financially, and then shove a $600 piece of cake in their collective faces to make up for it.

You're 100% right, but they still find themselves having to justify their actions, and still face some popular opposition here and there.

This, especially in the short run, will do away with all of that theater.

Now that the Bolsheviks have seized all power in the FedGov, yes...but they were going to do that anyway.

 

[nobody's_hero]

Ivanka deletion of "Patriots" tweet occured same time this chatter escalated:

[h=3]

US trade group asks VP Pence to ‘seriously consider’ invoking 25th Amendment to remove Trump[/h] Top Republican asks Pence to invoke 25th Amendment...
Jay Timmons, the group’s president and CEO and a former executive director of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, pointed to the millions of people in manufacturing jobs who are working to fight the coronavirus pandemic, which brought on an economic recession.
Last year the group gave an award to Trump’s daughter Ivanka Trump for “extraordinary support” of manufacturing in America.

^^^^ there's one there, who probably isn't being suppressed enough.

 

[phill4paul]

Mission accomplished.

How to solve a problem, Deep State style.

The Problem:
Dems lost seats to GOP challengers, riding you-know-who's coattails.
Half of the country is convinced the presidential election is fraudulent.
The GOP cannot return to swamp business as usual, without capitulating to MAGA supporters,
or risk splintering the party.
How to remove the ghost of Orange Man from politics?

The Solution:
Introduce crisis actors into a peaceful protest to "storm" the Capitol building, knowing full well the POTUS would put his foot in his mouth.
Have the media and yipping congressmen yip about how DJT incites domestic terrorism, stifling any of the "reasonable" Trump voters
(who wants to show support for the most heinous act in the history of American heinousity?), thereby killing any faint whiff of MAGA forever.
Watch today, as Republicans scramble to distance themselves from him.
As of 1/6/21, any support of non-RINO or DEM candidates is treason.

Will it work? IDK.

Yup. This was a blatant false-flag. For exactly this reason. +rep

 

[phill4paul]

Who'd have thunk that the House was so easy to breach? 100 armed men could have taken the whole house captive. They couldn't even keep out a few dozen unarmed protestors. Either it was allowed or those that are charged with protecting the "Representatives" are wholly incompetent.

 

[Occam's Banana]

It is simply not possible for a continent-spanning populace of a third of a billion people to be "represented" in any significant and meaningful way.

It is not...I could not say it better.

That statement trebles in truth when you add to that the fact that the third of a billion people in question, are now, through deliberate treachery designed to end exactly as stated, with a collapse of "liberal democracy" into authoritarianism and absolute despotism, have become so disparate and utterly at odds with each other, the founding vision of the nation and it's history, so as to be, literally, at war with herself.

Separate or Die.

[^^^ bold emphasis added - OB]

And just to reinforce the point, "liberal democracy" is an oxymoron.

I don't think that there's anything particularly "liberal" (in the good, classical sense) about democracy. Not at all.

In fact, democracy - especially mass democracy - is one of the most fecund seeds of illiberal authoritarianism.

Politicians know this well and exploit it to the fullest. This is precisely why some of America's wisest "Founding Fathers" were so deeply suspicious and skeptical of democracy and only grudgingly acceded to it. Of course, the limitations they attempted to impose upon it have been eroded and destroyed (see the 17th Amendment for an example of this), and the few barriers and limitations to it that remain, such as the electoral college, have fallen into disrepute and seem increasingly likely to be removed altogether. (I've even seen the suggestion that the U.S. Senate should be apportioned by population, just like the U.S. House.)

EDIT: I'll pursue any further discussion of this topic, if any, over in ASoL's new thread, so as to avoid derailing this one.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Good. That's going to happen sooner or later, might as well be now, on our terms.

How much "pussy footing" could be dropped anyway?

I think if you scroll through a little history, you'll realize that you know the answer to that question.

I just read a headline on ZeroHedge that Schumer is calling for Trump to be removed from office immediately, and another that claims Flight Attendant Unions are calling to ban "Pro Trump Rioters" from flights. "...the freedom we claim as Americans must disqualify these individuals from the freedom of flight..."

Now that the Bolsheviks have seized all power in the FedGov, yes...but they were going to do that anyway.

There are drips, and then there are deluges.

 

[pcosmar]

Also going by your argument, then the term "patriots" in this thread title should also be replaced with "antifa" in your view?

Quote:
"Breaking : PATRIOTS Have stormed capitol building - Masses Breached Barriers"

Correct.

and though some, (few of the Massive Crowd) did follow the provocateurs..

The Capitol Police did not stop the Provocateurs from their Photo Shoot.. and staged entry. and that video is Comical.

They shot a Trump Supporter through a window though.

How long do you think those Peaceful Huge Crowds are going to remain peaceful? with continued provocation?

 

[otherone]

Who'd have thunk that the House was so easy to breach? 100 armed men could have taken the whole house captive. They couldn't even keep out a few dozen unarmed protestors. Either it was allowed or those that are charged with protecting the "Representatives" are wholly incompetent.

A caller into a local radio show who was in attendance reported that the police removed the barricades from the Capitol Building steps, and also fired rubber bullets and tear gas into the peaceful crowd. She said people were running in confusion.
Actual insurrectionists would have brought gasoline and matches with them. Just sayin'.