Open Borders Are Anti-Libertarian -- They violate private property.

[Ronin Truth]

Open Borders Are Anti-Libertarian -- They violate private property.

Borders, Culture, and Decentralization

By Bionic Mosquito

April 9, 2016

On the recent edition of Mises Weekends, Jeff Deist interviews Dr. Jörg Guido Hülsmann. The topic is “Nation, State, and Borders.” It is a worthwhile interview. Fair warning: Hülsmann offers views similar to those of Hans Hoppe on these matters. Quite importantly, he makes the distinction of nation vs. state. It is a distinction worth internalizing for those who want to consider the application of libertarian theory in this world populated by humans.

From the interview, I learned of an essay written by Murray Rothbard in 1994, entitled Nations by Consent:
Decomposing the Nation-State. As is often the case, when I discover something of Rothbard’s I find myself torn between excitement and depression: excitement because I have somehow worked my way to a conclusion similar to his, and depression because all I have done is somehow worked my way to a conclusion similar to his.

It is a quick read – ten pages. I offer only a few highlights:

Continued at link:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/04/bionic-mosquito/open-borders-anti-libertarian/

 

[William R]

Open Borders Are Anti-Libertarian

Libertarians tend to focus on two important units of analysis: the individual and the state. And yet, one of the most dramatic and significant events of our time has been the reemergence-with a bang-in the last five years of a third and much-neglected aspect of the real world, the “nation.”

The “nation,” of course, is not the same thing as the state, a difference that earlier libertarians and classical liberals such as Ludwig von Mises and Albert Jay Nock understood full well.


https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/04/bionic-mosquito/open-borders-anti-libertarian/

 

[Zippyjuan]

Whose private property is violated? Is private land being seized by the government to create housing for immigrants? Are citizens forced to house them in their homes? Examples of immigrants violating private property rights?

 

[Ronin Truth]

Libertarians tend to focus on two important units of analysis: the individual and the state. And yet, one of the most dramatic and significant events of our time has been the reemergence-with a bang-in the last five years of a third and much-neglected aspect of the real world, the “nation.”

The “nation,” of course, is not the same thing as the state, a difference that earlier libertarians and classical liberals such as Ludwig von Mises and Albert Jay Nock understood full well.


https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/04/bionic-mosquito/open-borders-anti-libertarian/

Country is geography, nation is politics.

 

[Ronin Truth]

Whose private property is violated? Is private land being seized by the government to create housing for immigrants? Are citizens forced to house them in their homes? Examples of immigrants violating private property rights?

It's probably just the uninvited criminal aliens that are trespassing, and violating the private property. I understand that Mexico puts their's in jail. Gringos are stupid.

 

[euphemia]

Whose private property is violated? Is private land being seized by the government to create housing for immigrants? Are citizens forced to house them in their homes? Examples of immigrants violating private property rights?

Not sure where you live, Zipster, but if you ask people in southern Arizona and Texas, they would have plenty of examples for you, including pictures from trail cameras where illegals are violating private property rights, and in general being burdensome.

 

[Zippyjuan]

An immigrant can trespass and yes be technically violating property rights. A citizen is guilty of violating property rights if they trespass too. But the act of immigration (legally or illegally) is not a violation of any private property rights. You can have opinions on immigration on both sides but it is not a violation of private property rights. Article does not make any distinction between legal or illegal immigration.

Open Borders Are Anti-Libertarian -- They violate private property.

 

[Ronin Truth]

An immigrant can trespass and yes be technically violating property rights. A citizen is guilty of violating property rights if they trespass too. But the act of immigration (legally or illegally) is not a violation of any property rights.

Is crossing the US or Mexican border unwelcomed and uninvited a criminal act? You can call it immigration, I call it trespassing and criminal.

Go home and fix YOUR own country.

 

[euphemia]

That's a mighty fuzzy line, there.

 

[staerker]

I began to rethink my views on immigration when, as the Soviet Union collapsed, it became clear that ethnic Russians had been encouraged to flood into Estonia and Latvia in order to destroy the cultures and languages of these peoples.

Rothbard recall’s Jean Raspail’s anti-immigration novel The Camp of the Saints (I offer some thoughts on this novel here). The government encouraged and subsidized immigration is not libertarian. Many in the libertarian “open borders” crowd ignore this form of government intervention.

No one argues that government intervention is libertarian.

Rothbard, on rethinking his views on immigration in an anarcho-capitalist world, has concluded that as no private property owner has “open borders,” no totally privatized community (or nation) would have open borders either. I manage my borders. What does “ownership” even mean if anyone and everyone had access to my property without my consent?

The United States is not a privatized community. HOAs are, which could police borders if they chose to.

The State has no right to control borders, as the State should not exist.

 

[Zippyjuan]

This “nation” is…culture:

Contemporary libertarians often assume, mistakenly, that individuals are bound to each other only by the nexus of market exchange. They forget that everyone is necessarily born into a family, a language, and a culture.

…usually including an ethnic group, with specific values, cultures, religious beliefs, and traditions.

If we were concerned about all being of the same family, race, and culture, Americans should never have left Europe to come here to hang with the Native Americans. Unless you are a Native American, you came from immigrants. Go home. Without mixing of culture we would not have beer, pizza, tacos, and sushi. If we were supposed to all be the same religion, the Bible would have never been written and we would all be pagans. Nothing should be allowed to change?

If you don't want to mix, create your own enclave someplace.

 

[Ronin Truth]

If we were concerned about all being of the same family, race, and culture, Americans should never have left Europe to come here to hang with the Native Americans. Unless you are a Native American, you came from immigrants. Go home. Without mixing of culture we would not have beer, pizza, tacos, and sushi. If we were supposed to all be the same religion, the Bible would have never been written and we would all be pagans. Nothing should be allowed to change?

If you don't want to mix, create your own enclave someplace.

I've never been a particular slave to culture, and I have no intention of starting now.

I've got one, it's here, and it's already 100+% overpopulated. BTW, my ancestors arrived on the next ship after the Mayflower, FWIW.

 

[ArrestPoliticians]

Whose private property is violated? Is private land being seized by the government to create housing for immigrants? Are citizens forced to house them in their homes? Examples of immigrants violating private property rights?

Tax money. There are types of property other than real estate, of which money is one. Some property is intangible, like value.

 

[Danke]

Whose private property is violated? Is private land being seized by the government to create housing for immigrants? Are citizens forced to house them in their homes? Examples of immigrants violating private property rights?

Yes, you have heard about taxation, right?

 

[Danke]

No one argues that government intervention is libertarian.



The United States is not a privatized community. HOAs are, which could police borders if they chose to.

The State has no right to control borders, as the State should not exist.

Controlled by a private corporation.

 

[Danke]

If we were concerned about all being of the same family, race, and culture, Americans should never have left Europe to come here to hang with the Native Americans. Unless you are a Native American, you came from immigrants. Go home. Without mixing of culture we would not have beer, pizza, tacos, and sushi. If we were supposed to all be the same religion, the Bible would have never been written and we would all be pagans. Nothing should be allowed to change?

If you don't want to mix, create your own enclave someplace.

Many waives of immigrants to the Americas, what we call Native is one of those waives, and some probably mixed with previous ones, including some from Europe.

 

[erowe1]

Notably, the author doesn't suggest any method of regulating immigration that could qualify as libertarian.

 

[staerker]

Controlled by a private corporation.

The owner of a property must be private for there to be a private property violation, yes.

 

[dannno]

Is crossing the US or Mexican border unwelcomed and uninvited a criminal act? You can call it immigration, I call it trespassing and criminal.

Invited by who? The government? I thought you were an anarchist

 

[Danke]

The owner of a property must be private for there to be a private property violation, yes.

I'd like to meet someone that actually owns property and isn't just a renter.