Open Borders Are Anti-Libertarian -- They violate private property.

[erowe1]

I've got one, it's here, and it's already 100+% overpopulated.

Great, wherever this enclave is, keep your regulations limited to it, and don't try to force them onto the property of other people.

 

[presence]

Is crossing the US or Mexican border unwelcomed and uninvited a criminal act? You can call it immigration, I call it trespassing and criminal.

Go home and fix YOUR own country.

no victim
no crime






hypothetically they land by helicopter in my backyard where I welcome them as day laborers and tenants

what's it to you? why should you and your conception of state borders stand between two consenting adults and free exchange?

 

[Zippyjuan]

Tax money. There are types of property other than real estate, of which money is one. Some property is intangible, like value.

Immigrants pay taxes.

 

[Zippyjuan]

I've never been a particular slave to culture, and I have no intention of starting now.

I've got one, it's here, and it's already 100+% overpopulated. BTW, my ancestors arrived on the next ship after the Mayflower, FWIW.

Since it is 100% over-populated then 100% should leave. You and me included.

 

[erowe1]

Is crossing the US or Mexican border unwelcomed and uninvited a criminal act? You can call it immigration, I call it trespassing and criminal.

Who's the victim of this crime?

 

[Danke]

Immigrants pay taxes.

Everyone pays the same dollar amount including children? I did not know this.

 

[Zippyjuan]

If it is Mexican immigrants we are worried about (and the immigration from Mexico hit zero a few years ago http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...rtin-omalley-net-migration-mexico-was-0-2014/ ), note that a huge part of the country was actually theirs- until we immigrated onto their lands and took it from them. Now we get upset when they move back in? (map reflects things in the 1840's)

 

[Zippyjuan]

Everyone pays the same dollar amount including children? I did not know this.

Immigrants pay the same taxes as citizens. No- not all individuals pay the same dollar amounts. You know that.

 

[Jamesiv1]

If it is Mexican immigrants we are worried about (and the immigration from Mexico hit zero a few years ago http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...rtin-omalley-net-migration-mexico-was-0-2014/ ), note that a huge part of the country was actually theirs- until we immigrated onto their lands and took it from them. Now we get upset when they move back in? (map reflects things in the 1840's)

ssshhhhhh!!! don't bring that up!!

 

[William R]

If it is Mexican immigrants we are worried about (and the immigration from Mexico hit zero a few years ago http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...rtin-omalley-net-migration-mexico-was-0-2014/ ), note that a huge part of the country was actually theirs- until we immigrated onto their lands and took it from them. Now we get upset when they move back in? (map reflects things in the 1840's)

BS. Spain granted Mexico its independence in 1824. At that time there weren't any Mexicans living in the United States. Spanish yes, Mexicans no!! The Mexican government had no control in Texas. Zero!! It wasn't till the government in Mexico city invited settlers in did they exert any sort of control. Well the settlers rebelled and the rest is history. We paid the Mexican government 15 million for the Southwest. The Mexicans actually wanted to sell the Southwest to England.

 

[Danke]

Immigrants pay the same taxes as citizens. No- not all individuals pay the same dollar amounts. You know that.

So then you admit I am subsidizing most, including immigrants.

 

[Zippyjuan]

So then you admit I am subsidizing most, including immigrants.

Those who pay taxes do subsidize those who receive benefits- yes. Immigrant tax payers are also subsidizing citizens. They make a huge contribution to the Social Security program yet are not eligible to receive any benefits. Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Federal benefits and legal immigrants are not eligible the first five years they are here. If you collect Social Security, they will be subsidizing you.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/

Myth # 1: They don't pay taxes

Undocumented immigrants are already U.S. taxpayers.

Collectively, they paid an estimated $10.6 billion to state and local taxes in 2010, according to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), a research organization that works on tax policy issues. Contributions varied by state. In Montana they contributed $2 million. In California, more than $2.2 billion. On average they pay about 6.4% of their income in state and local taxes, ITEP said.

A 2007 Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report on the impact of undocumented immigrants on the budgets of local and state governments cited IRS figures showing that 50% to 75% of the about 11 million unauthorized U.S. immigrants file and pay income taxes each year.

A 2013 CBO analysis of the failed bipartisan bill introduced by the so-called "gang of 8" that would have created a path to legal status for many undocumented immigrants found that increasing legal immigration would increase government spending on refundable tax credits, Medicaid and health insurance subsidies, among other federal benefits. But it would also create even more tax revenue by way of income and payroll taxes. That could reduce deficits by $175 billion over the first 10 years and by at least $700 billion in the second decade.

ITEP estimates that allowing certain immigrants to stay in the country and work legally would boost state and local tax contributions by $2 billion a year.
Related: America's most dangerous jobs.

Myth # 2: They don't pay into Social Security

The truth is that undocumented immigrants contribute more in payroll taxes than they will ever consume in public benefits.

Take Social Security. According to the Social Security Administration (SSA), unauthorized immigrants -- who are not eligible to receive Social Security benefits -- have paid an eye-popping $100 billion into the fund over the past decade.

"They are paying an estimated $15 billion a year into Social Security with no intention of ever collecting benefits," Stephen Goss, chief actuary of the SSA told CNNMoney. "Without the estimated 3.1 million undocumented immigrants paying into the system, Social Security would have entered persistent shortfall of tax revenue to cover payouts starting in 2009," he said.

As the baby boom generation ages and retires, immigrant workers are key to shoring up Social Security and counteracting the effects of the decline in U.S.-born workers paying into the system, Goss said.

Without immigrants, the Social Security Board of Trustees projects that the system will no longer be able to pay the full promised benefits by 2037.

 

[Danke]

Let's skip over the cost to school and feed their children and provide health care.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits. Most of these programs require proof of legal immigration status and under the 1996 welfare law, even legal immigrants cannot receive these benefits until they have been in the United States for more than five years.

Non-citizen legal immigrant adults and children are about 25% less likely to be signed up for Medicaid than their poor native-born equivalents and are also 37% less likely to receive food stamps, according to a 2013 study by the Cato Institute.

They (illegal immigrants) are not eligible for food stamps (SNAP program). Education is decided by states- not the Federal Government. They are not eligible for Medicare. Medicaid, or Obamacare. The only "medical care" they are eligible for is if they are not insured- they can go to an emergency room which cannot reject anybody based on ability to pay. Uninsured citizens do the same thing. That is due to insurance and financial status- not immigration status.

 

[Danke]

They (illegal immigrants) are not eligible for food stamps (SNAP program). Education is decided by states- not the Federal Government. They are not eligible for Medicare. Medicaid, or Obamacare. The only "medical care" they are eligible for is if they are not insured- they can go to an emergency room which cannot reject anybody based on ability to pay. Uninsured citizens do the same thing. That is due to insurance and financial status- not immigration status.

Federal government is involved with state schools. More children one has, the more you are being subsidized. There is even a thing called Earned Income Credit, that is why many are filing.

 

[William R]

They (illegal immigrants) are not eligible for food stamps (SNAP program). Education is decided by states- not the Federal Government. They are not eligible for Medicare. Medicaid, or Obamacare. The only "medical care" they are eligible for is if they are not insured- they can go to an emergency room which cannot reject anybody based on ability to pay. Uninsured citizens do the same thing. That is due to insurance and financial status- not immigration status.

You're clueless. Illegals drop a kid on this side of the border and it qualifies for all sorts o welfare. Standing in line at grocery store and see a women with 5 kids none of them speak English and they pay for an entire basket of food with food stamps. People shaking their heads with a look of disgust. People that grumble the loudest are native born Americans of Mexican heritage. People are fed up with it

End fugging birthright citizenship.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Along with the number of illegal immigrants in the country, those numbers have been falling too.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fact-checking-the-figures-on-anchor-babies-1441963800

Since the recession, the total number of immigrants in the U.S. illegally has decreased, dropping from about 12.2 million in 2007 to around 11.2 or 11.3 million in 2009, according to Jeffrey Passel, a senior demographer with the Pew Research Center. That number has remained relatively constant since, but births have continued to drop—as have all U.S. births.

A chunk of that is now "birth tourism"- mostly wealthy Chinese who come here to have babies, get papers for them, do shopping, and go back home a few months later. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-anchor-babies-what-trump-and-bush-got-right/

How many women take this step? This is even more difficult to estimate. Steven A. Camarota of CIS in 2015 estimated the number of “birth tourists” was about 36,000, after comparing the data for the number of foreign-born mothers who gave birth during the year against the number of such women who showed up in the U.S. Census. The gap was almost 36,000, but he cautioned that it was a very rough estimate.

Camarota, in an interview, said the largest share of birth tourists was probably from East Asia, but many also came from Eastern Europe (such as Russia) and Nigeria. A report in Vice says that a handful of pregnant women board every flight from Moscow to Miami, which is apparently a popular spot for Russian birth tourists.

But The Huffington Post, quoting Chinese sources, said the total number of Chinese birth tourists is projected to be 60,000 in 2014, a sixfold increase over 2012 — apparently spurred on by a romantic comedy, “Finding Mr. Right,” about a Chinese woman who flew to Seattle so she could have an American baby (and also go shopping).

If that is 60,000 a year, it is one fifth of "anchor babies".

 

[Zippyjuan]

http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/29/immigrants-lead-plunge-in-u-s-birth-rate/

Immigrants lead plunge in U.S. birth rate

(CNN) - It makes sense that since the start of the recession, the birth rate in America has been declining.

In 2011, it dipped to the lowest rate ever recorded: 63.2 per 1,000 women between 15 and 44, the prime childbearing ages, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

That plunge was led by immigrant women, according to a Pew Research Center analysis released Thursday.

The birth rate for U.S.-born women declined 6% between 2007 (when the recession began) and 2010. However, the rate for foreign-born women plunged 14%, more than in the 17 years before the downturn.

Both foreign- and U.S.-born Hispanic women had larger drops in birth rate than any other group, Pew found. That correlates with larger percentage declines in household wealth for Hispanics than in white, black or Asian households.

Among women from Mexico, the country from where the largest number of U.S. immigrants come, the birth rate fell by 23%.

More at link.

 

[Ronin Truth]

Invited by who? The government? I thought you were an anarchist

That's uninvited and unwelcomed by anyone, with any legitimate authority. Are you reading for comprehension?

 

[Ronin Truth]

[h=2]Nations by Consent: Decomposing the Nation-State
https://mises.org/library/nations-consent-decomposing-nation-state-0
[/h]