**Official** Trayvon Martin thread

[teacherone]

Honestly the racism issue is a side show.

The guy started a fight and then killed his opponent when he dared to fight back.


That its not self defense. If it is then thousands of murderers should be released because their victims fought back too.

 

[AuH20]

+rep coastie. AuH20 I can't believe you're defending this garbage. Or is it just because the "liberal media" is attacking Zimmerman so he must be okay?

That's not it. The story is being intentionally distorted to make it out to be a racial attack. This isn't the James Byrd Jr. case where it was abundantly clear their was racial animus behind the attack. This incident is far more complex. Neighborhood watchman patrolling in a crime ridden gated community accosts a young teen he doesn't recognize and who isn't a member of the community, and eventually the situation escalates to a heated struggle in which the protagonist kills the teen with his firearm. It's more attributable to a breakdown of communication and a crime of passion as opposed to a premiditated murder, predicated on racial bias. This meme being pushed is absolutely false.

 

[jmdrake]

The last line of the article:



No it is not, based on the facts so far presented.

Self defense with deadly force is not justified, legally, if you provoke or prolong or instigate an altercation that otherwise would not have happened had you not done so.

"Stand your ground" laws do not change that.

+rep! The last sentence is the most important. Those defending Zimmerman need to think long and hard about this. If Zimmerman was somehow "justified" under the "Stand your ground" law, then that law is in serious jeopardy. Is this obvious jerk-off (Zimmerman) really worth it?

 

[specsaregood]

So you'd rather turn into a homocidal drama queen than answer a simple question?

He knows full well that if it was his kid, he wouldn't be taking the same position he is now. That is why.

 

[jmdrake]

That's not it. The story is being intentionally distorted to make it out to be a racial attack. This isn't the James Byrd Jr. case where it was abundantly clear their was racial animus behind the attack. This incident is far more complex. Neighborhood watchman patrolling in a crime ridden gated community accosts a young teen he doesn't recognize and who isn't a member of the community, and eventually the situation escalates to a heated struggle in which the protagonist kills the teen with his firearm. It's more attributable to a breakdown of communication and a crime of passion as opposed to a premiditated murder, predicated on racial bias. This meme being pushed is absolutely false.

When you get your hearing checked and you can tell the difference between the "unk" sound in "punk" and the "oon" sound in "coon" let me know.

 

[azxd]

What makes you think it hasn't....without going into detail, you are wrong about what I would do. and any of you that run after random people in the dark deserve what happens after that.

Just like someone who jumps you as you're getting back in your car, deserve what happens after that.

 

[jmdrake]

Honestly the racism issue is a side show.

The guy started a fight and then killed his opponent when he dared to fight back.


That its not self defense. If it is then thousands of murderers should be released because their victims fought back too.

+rep

 

[AuH20]

When you get your hearing checked and you can tell the difference between the "unk" sound in "punk" and the "oon" sound in "coon" let me know.

Who uses the pejorative coons in a modern setting? Did the Hispanic Zimmerman grow up in 1940s era Alabama? Highly doubtful and more eye of the beholder nonsense. Several of Zimmerman's close associates (including a few African Americans) already testified that Zimmerman never exhibited racial prejudice nor utilized hateful language while in their presence.

 

[azxd]

a thorough investigation wasn't conducted that night.

Thorough investigations are rarely carried out in a linear fashion with immediacy.

 

[TheeJoeGlass]

No it's not! When a prosecutor indicts someone they don't wait until it's been "proven in a court of law" before stating their view of the facts. It kills me how people think statements about criminal cases cannot be made until everything has been "proven in a court of law". Following that line of reasoning no one would ever be prosecuted for anything.

99.99% of cases in this country are tried without statement.

 

[azxd]

Well, being that he never should've exited his car, er wait.....doing that blows the bias out of the water, now doesn't it?

Only if you are of the belief that he should not exit his car to check out the sign it was reported that he was checking, and only if you don't agree with the 6 witnesses who stated he was jumped as he was getting in his car ... But believing the witnesses ... That just seems to keep blowing your bias out of the water

 

[RonPaulMall]

+rep! The last sentence is the most important. Those defending Zimmerman need to think long and hard about this. If Zimmerman was somehow "justified" under the "Stand your ground" law, then that law is in serious jeopardy. Is this obvious jerk-off (Zimmerman) really worth it?

The thing that makes us different is our adherence to principal over politics. If we allow an unpopular guy to be lynched just because we think it will help some political position we may favor, then we are no better than the monsters we are fighting.

 

[TheeJoeGlass]

Committed the crime of what exactly?

First they came for the black teens wearing hoodies carrying skittles and soda.
Then they came for the Ron Paul supporters.
When they finally came for me there was no one left to stand up for anyone.

Attacking George Zimmerman.

 

[Danke]

When you get your hearing checked and you can tell the difference between the "unk" sound in "punk" and the "oon" sound in "coon" let me know.

How about "goon."

 

[azxd]

You aren't owning anything. You are one sick puppy. I brought up your kids; because it is a fair point to ask you how you would feel if you were the victim's parents. This kid was violating no laws or harming any others when it began and ended up dead. The kid tried to flee the presense of somebody he obviously thought was threatening. You aren't that kid, you weren't in his position so you don't know. I think the kid was within his rights to try to flee the situation. You think the killer was in his right to "hunt" the kid down. We just disagree.

And in this heated debate you made it personal between you and the other party ... Not good, even if your intent was to put the other party into a different set of shoes.

 

[azxd]

Well, it's obvious even to the untrained eye that Travon was far from the likeable saint portrayed by the MSM and Zimmerman was not a racially motivated monster sans the white hood. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I bet that Martin escalated the situation after he was accosted by Zimmerman, and then all hell broke lose, ultimately with Zimmerman foolishly shooting him in the chest at close range.

I mostly agree with you, but on the shooting aspect, if I am being assaulted by ANYONE, you can be damn sure I will defend myself, and if I believe lethal force is being used against me, I will do my best to end that threat by whatever means necessary.

I see nothing foolish after "all hell broke loose".

I suspect you would do the same.

 

[jmdrake]

The thing that makes us different is our adherence to principal over politics. If we allow an unpopular guy to be lynched just because we think it will help some political position we may favor, then we are no better than the monsters we are fighting.

Right. So the principled thing to do is to do character assassination of the victim. Pick your monster. You can defend Zimmerman getting a fair trial without stretching the truth in the process. (I'm not talking about "you" in particular).

 

[TheeJoeGlass]

Only if you are of the belief that he should not exit his car to check out the sign it was reported that he was checking, and only if you don't agree with the 6 witnesses who stated he was jumped as he was getting in his car ... But believing the witnesses ... That just seems to keep blowing your bias out of the water

If what the witnesses say match up with Zimmerman, he is justified. If they don't, then he will be prosecuted. What we did not need was the dis-information coming from the media which is exactly what is being spewed on this thread.

 

[jmdrake]

Attacking George Zimmerman.

Under the circumstances there is more evidence suggesting that Trayvon acted in self defense than there is that Zimmerman was. It's funny that you are so willing to give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt, but you are ready to convict a dead teen based on what the policed didn't do. Actually it's not funny. It's disgusting.

 

[RonPaulMall]

It is NOT self defense when you started the altercation. If Trayvon had shot Zimmerman that would have been self defense. Zimmerman started the altercation, was losing the fight, and pulled a gun like a punk.

Problem is there is no evidence to suggest Zimmerman started the altercation. The only eyewitness (Zimmerman) says Martin started it. What other witnesses saw doesn't prove but is certainly consistent with Zimmerman's account. The physical evidence all points to Zimmerman being the victim and shooting in self defense. A criminal charge requires probable cause that a crime was committed. The police need to believe Zimmerman launched an unprovoked attack against Martin for them to charge him with a crime. Based on the evidence we have so far, no reasonable person would come to that belief. That is why Zimmerman remains free.

Under the circumstances there is more evidence suggesting that Trayvon acted in self defense than there is that Zimmerman was.

More evidence? Where is there any evidence that Trayvon acted in self defense? The whole reason Zimmerman hasn't been charged with a crime is the complete lack of evidence that any crime was committed. If evidence existed to suggest Zimmerman attacked Martin, you don't think we'd have heard about it by now? The MSM would go crazy if there was any actual evidence Zimmerman was the attacker.