Official Health Care Ruling Thread (Obamacare upheld)

[matt0611]

There is some silver lining in this. Though small:

1. SCOTUS acknowledged that there are limits to the commerce clause.

2. Obamacare will be known as a new a new "tax". People don't like taxes. Obama will be known as a "tax hiker"

3. This will embolden the tea party base so hopefully we can get more liberty minded Ron Paul, Justin Amash types in congress in November.

 

[Inkblots]

In light of the SCOTUS ruling - "But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain — that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." -- Lysander Spooner

Yet another reason why a piece of paper cannot constrain the state.

One of the most important quotes in political theory.

 

[romancito]

It will only hurt if we remind them that Roberts was a conservative judge. That we need a president who will deconstruct the socialist policies, not just manage them.

Correct. And we need a party dedicated to do that: The Ron Paul Party.

 

[musicmax]

There is no place you can go that the statists haven't claimed all the land.

Yes but at least some of the other places are honest about being Social Democracies rather "the land of the free".

 

[Cowlesy]

Hah, well at least with this one, it is safe to say, "Bush's Fault!"

 

[flynn]

Hah, well at least with this one, it is safe to say, "Bush's Fault!"

Establishment republicans have always been democrat lite.

 

[AuH20]

How corrupt and entrenched is Roberts???:


Roberts’ opinion sees no difference between taxes upon activity (earning income, purchasing cigarettes, dying, etc.) and taxes upon inactivity (failure to comply with the non-mandate mandate). Incredible.

 

[Inkblots]

Hah, well at least with this one, it is safe to say, "Bush's Fault!"

He's been out of office for 3 years, but I think I'm finally ready to succumb to Bush Derangement Syndrome. The George W. Bush Administration: it's the give that keeps on giving!

 

[aGameOfThrones]

just like SSI...

1960 Scotus case of Flemming v. Nestor.

It involved Bulgarian-born Ephram Nestor, who was deported in 1956, having been involved in Communist activity in the 1930s. The federal government denied him his Social Security benefits, citing 1954 amendments to the Social Security Act that denied payments to anyone deported for criminal activity after August of that year. Nestor Sued on the grounds that "throughout the history of the Social Security Act, old-age insurance benefits have been referred to as a right of the recipient which he has earned and paid for."

The federal government prepared a legal brief in defense of its position that Nestor was not entitled to his benefits. The brief explained that Social Security was in no sense a federally administered "insurance program" under which each worker pays premiums over the years and acquires at retirement an indefeasible right to receive for life a fixed monthly benefit,irrespective of the conditions which Congress has chosen to impose from time to time.... The "contribution" exacted under the social security plan from an employee...is a True Tax. It is not comparable to a premium under a policy of insurance promising the payment of an annuity commencing at a designated age.

From Thomas Woods JR. 33 questions about American History.

 

[mport1]

One of the most important quotes in political theory.

Agreed. Unfortunately many Ron Paul supporters do not see it that way and have a reverence for the Constitution. I think the Constitution is a dangerous document in that it gives the illusion of order/the rule of law and grants unfounded legitimacy to the state.

 

[Pericles]

True enough, but at least other countries don't have everything. Some have socialism, some have militarism, but take Switzerland, they may be socialist, but hey they don't go around trying to rule the world and beat everyone into submission.

I hate all statism, but when you start looking for places to live in the world as in a freedom index, this is a big blow to the US.

FYI, Swiss law is that everyone has to buy health insurance.

 

[Inkblots]

How corrupt and entrenched is Roberts???:


Roberts’ opinion sees no difference between taxes upon activity (earning income, purchasing cigarettes, dying, etc.) and taxes upon inactivity (failure to comply with the non-mandate mandate). Incredible.

More importantly, the Court has just legalized tax farming - a tax collected by private corporations, and from which they derive support.

Tax farming, people. We really are turning into the Roman Empire. It's actually quite remarkable.

 

[romancito]

Now lets take this to the Convention and defeat Romney with it. Why? Because although Romney will pay lip service to 'repealing' the law, everyone knows he will not repeal it but adjust it so that people are servants and slaves of each of their own states, and slaves to the doctors, the hospitals and the insurance companies.

Lets get Ron Paul nominated at the Convention. And if that fails, lets create the Ron Paul Party.

 

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

just like SSI...

Basically. I wonder if Obama saw this coming. By allowing it stand as a tax, it opens the door for full fledged Universal Healthcare.

 

[DGambler]

Agreed. Unfortunately many Ron Paul supporters do not see it that way and have a reverence for the Constitution. I think the Constitution is a dangerous document in that it gives the illusion of order/the rule of law and grants unfounded legitimacy to the state.

I've made the transition and now support the thinking behind this quote... this ruling did it for me.

 

[flynn]

Now lets take this to the Convention and defeat Romney with it. Why? Because although Romney will pay lip service to 'repealing' the law, everyone knows he will not repeal it but adjust it so that people are servants and slaves of each of their own states, and slaves to the doctors, the hospitals and the insurance companies.

Lets get Ron Paul nominated at the Convention. And if that fails, lets create the Ron Paul Party.

Just so you know, you need major financial supporters on your side to create a new party not to mention election rules are dead set against third party candidates.

 

[Shredmonster]

No the Constitution is not a dangerous document. Do you people read history ? The founders knew that the Constitution would only serve honest and good men.
They knew if those men became corrupt the Constitution would not stand. It has nothing to do with the document.

Can anybody here make a document that will change the nature of man so he will not be corrupt ?

There were 2 main bodies of thought that got together in the founding days. One side wanted just states, no powerful central government, no president and no official central city where that power would be housed.

Needless to say the side above did not win. But regardless they were correct.

 

[Pericles]

In light of the SCOTUS ruling - "But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain — that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." -- Lysander Spooner

Yet another reason why a piece of paper cannot constrain the state.

No - this shows what happens when there is no well regulated militia.

 

[romancito]

More importantly, the Court has just legalized tax farming - a tax collected by private corporations, and from which they derive support.

Tax farming, people. We really are turning into the Roman Empire. It's actually quite remarkable.

Excellent point. and Yes this is the dawn of the age of Neo-Romanism and you will need to live under your 'patriarch' and fit into a patriarchy.

 

[KingRobbStark]

What's next? Do we bend over? Or are we alteady bent over and are merely ready for penetration? I think it's the latter.