Obama wants national ban on concealed carry

^^^ well, there you go.

I appologize, Shaun, if I came off pissed. Well, I was'nt pissed at you; it's that I'm pissed at societie's attitudes towards gun control, and Mini-Me hit everything squarely on the head. You were displaying this same ignorance that most gun control people display, and yes-it pisses me off sometimes when I hear people present that side of it, because its irrational, to say the least.

I'm not as good as articulating everything he just said, but what's posted above is where my issue comes, and I have a hard time understanding how/why people cant understand it, seems pretty cut and dry to me...
 
The purpose of keeping and bearing arms is part of the checks and balances built into the Constitution.

The 10th Amendment says that the powers not delegated to Congress by the Constitution is reserved to the States, or to the People. This means that Congress (the Federal Government) is limited by the Constitution, and anything that Congress is not authorized by the Constitution to do is the prerogative of the State governments and that of the people.

So, the 2nd Amendment guarantees us our right to protecting our lives and liberties, not just from the thief or murderer who would steal our life or property, but also our right of protection from the federal government trying to take away or infringe upon our right to keep and bear arms.

From this it is clear that the Supreme Court (in the event of a national ban of firearms being proposed) must constitutionally rule against a national ban because it violates the Constitution in the two points made above (that anyone with simple comprehension should understand).

Those who desire the disarming of this country are ignorant of the reasons for the 2nd Amendment, and perhaps even the reasons for having a constitutional government at all.
 
I couldn't ever vote for McCain. i don't get what makes people vote for him just to prevent someone worse getting elected. i'm standing on my principles no matter what people think or tell me. and my principles are not aligned with McCain so he won't get my vote. If obama tries to take my guns, he'll get the ones that i own on paper and that's about it.
 
Mini-Me said:
It seems to me that if Ron Paul Republicans were running the country, they'd be addressing all three of the root causes of crime: Poverty, black markets, and stress...all the while respecting our inalienable right to own and bear arms.
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+100
 
Shaun said:
I really understand that I should go away and die. I got it completely. What a wonderful example you are of my point. I wouldn't let a person with an attitude like you within 100 yards of any gun, anywhere.
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Fortunately some of the founders were intelligent enough to add a Bill of Rights expressly to protect all men from people like you. Who seem to think they can abolish God given Rights for "the common good."

You are pissed off, unhappy and emotionally unstable on this board. .
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If you think I`m scary, you would be terrified of the men fighting for their freedom in the American Revolution. In less temperate times you would pay dearly for usurping a mans freedom.


Why? I mean come on!! We are having a discussion for God's sake, it's not like I have my hands around your throat.
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No you have your hands around my freedom, ready to crush it through use of the ballot box.
You live in one of the most free societies in the world and you are writing things like this? And you don't think I should have a problem with allowing "normal" people to have guns?
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Living in "one of the most free societies" does not cut it. At one time it was simply FREE, until people like YOU fucked it up for all of us.
Anyway you are the final straw for me here. I wish you well in your life and hope you get some help for that temper of yours. Life's too short to be on a fuse all the time.
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Good riddance, and my temper will subside when my liberty is no longer threatened by people like you...which will be never.
Good luck to you all, I'm sure your guns will save your life sometime, somewhere.
I can certainly see your points of view because there sure are some very dangerous criminals out there and the police can't be relied upon. I certainly understand that. It would have been good to be able to have a serious talk about this instead of the insult hurling, but so be it..
Thanks.
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There is no point in having a "serious talk" about dismantling my liberty`s, there is absolutely no room for compromise. Maybe you should remember Thomas Jefferson's advice when he said...

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." --Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791. ME 8:276
 
To Mini-me; Good response...

Thanks for your very long and detailed response. It's by far the most logical and well thought out post I have seen. I'm going to study it later today when I can give it the time it deserves. At first glance there seem to be a number of areas that I'll be very interested to study.
Thanks again.
Shaun.
 
SeanEdwards said:
Yes, the winner will be either the Dem or GOP nominee, and I lose either way. But there is significance in evaluating those two lose propositions, and determining which is the bigger loss for me.

As I mentioned before, since I live in California my vote really doesn't matter, and in light of that I probably will write in Paul. If I lived in a contested state however, I'd seriously have to consider which of the two potential winners was worse for me, and vote accordingly.
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If you are a woman and voting for Sen. Hillary Clinton because she is a woman, please stay home.
If you are black and voting for Sen. Barack Obama simply because he is black, stay home.
If you are voting for Sen. John McCain, just because he is the likely winner, stay home.
Voting is the one opportunity people have to express their views. It is not simply a vote to choose a candidate; it is a vote for what you believe in.

One of the worst phrases ever uttered is, “You are wasting your vote,” or some derivative of that. The only wasted vote is the one irresponsibly or ignorantly cast.
 
To NMCB3....

You and I can agree to disagree. Although, that said, the arguments made by Mini me may cause me to change some of my positions on this. To me, REAL freedom is the ability to change one's point of view based on a change in the KNOWN facts or how one views those facts. Anyway, RP supporters agree and disagree on lots of subjects. You talk about a "God" given right as though everyone believes that? The RP tent has been a big tent allowing many points of view. At this moment I don't agree with your stance on guns, but I would argue for your side of the fence in terms of staying with the constitution, that's why I am an RP supporter. But I don't agree with him on everything. Anyway, thanks for your response and I'll leave it at that. And don't call me names anymore will you? If you do, I'm going hunt you down, string you upside down and pound you into unconciousness with an Organic Carrot.:D
 
Dr.3D said:
This is true, it was a police officer who trained us in our concealed carry class.
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same here... and the range that gives the class is owned by police officers as well as former officers.

To be honest i was suprised when i realized how much cops (at least the ones by me) respect civilians right to keep and bear arms ("legally") and as for the range by me, they encourage it.
 
I personally feel much safer at gun shows than anywhere else. Everyone is armed to the teeth, and everyone is correspondingly MUCH more polite :)

Also, Shaun: reference Kennessaw, Georgia. There is a law on the books there that requires that every household have a gun. Their violent crime rate is nearly non-existent.

I believe this is similar to Switzerland, where almost everyone is a part of the militia and there are even full-auto weapons in a lot of households?? I'm not 100% familiar with the Swiss situation, though. I used to live near Kennessaw.
 
kyleAF said:
I personally feel much safer at gun shows than anywhere else. Everyone is armed to the teeth, and everyone is correspondingly MUCH more polite :)

Also, Shaun: reference Kennessaw, Georgia. There is a law on the books there that requires that every household have a gun. Their violent crime rate is nearly non-existent.

I believe this is similar to Switzerland, where almost everyone is a part of the militia and there are even full-auto weapons in a lot of households?? I'm not 100% familiar with the Swiss situation, though. I used to live near Kennessaw.
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If you can get past the grit, gun people are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet.
 
Very interesting...

kyleAF said:
I personally feel much safer at gun shows than anywhere else. Everyone is armed to the teeth, and everyone is correspondingly MUCH more polite :)

Also, Shaun: reference Kennessaw, Georgia. There is a law on the books there that requires that every household have a gun. Their violent crime rate is nearly non-existent.

I believe this is similar to Switzerland, where almost everyone is a part of the militia and there are even full-auto weapons in a lot of households?? I'm not 100% familiar with the Swiss situation, though. I used to live near Kennessaw.
Click to expand...

OK, OK so your point is that if a household has a gun the criminals leave you alone? Sure, I can certainly understand that. Of course.
This entire situation is complex, but I will look into the Swiss situation. Very interesting.
Thanks for the information. You guys have made me think deeper about this.:confused:
 
Shaun said:
OK, OK so your point is that if a household has a gun the criminals leave you alone? Sure, I can certainly understand that. Of course.
This entire situation is complex, but I will look into the Swiss situation. Very interesting.
Thanks for the information. You guys have made me think deeper about this.:confused:
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That is precisely the point...if you knew that every household could possibly have a gun, then you're not going to rob it, or at the very least, move on to a "softer" target...
Statistics have proven that removing the guns from the people has the exact OPPOSITE effect than intended. When we'll learn that, who knows. Its glaringly obvious by the numbers, guess some people dont like when the facts usurp their rediculous notions of a Utopia with no guns....

Obviously, most criminals dont have the sense to think like this, so thats where the secondary advantage of having a gun in the house comes in.:D
 
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coastie said:
That is precisely the point...if you knew that every household could possibly have a gun, then you're not going to rob it, or at the very least, move on to a "softer" target...
Statistics have proven that removing the guns from the people has the exact OPPOSITE effect than intended. When we'll learn that, who knows. Its glaringly obvious by the numbers, guess some people dont like when the facts usurp their rediculous notions of a Utopia with no guns....

Obviously, most criminals dont have the sense to think like this, so thats where the secondary advantage of having a gun in the house comes in.:D
Click to expand...

If you want to see evidence of this phenomenon look at the 'hot' burglary rates in the US compared to countries with strict gun control.
 
Shaun said:
OK, OK so your point is that if a household has a gun the criminals leave you alone? Sure, I can certainly understand that. Of course.
This entire situation is complex, but I will look into the Swiss situation. Very interesting.
Thanks for the information. You guys have made me think deeper about this.:confused:
Click to expand...


Here is a good book. The author started out to write an anti book but when he actually compilled the data he had to change his mind and is now very pro gun.

More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun-Control Laws

by John R. Lott Jr.

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/
 
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