Obama to Begin Pushing Amnesty Bill!

[Deborah K]

Oh and here's a question for the immigrant-haters: You claim that the reason you hate so-called "illegals" is because they're breaking US law by being here. If Obama changes the law and makes it legal for them to be here, they won't be breaking the law any more. So you should stop hating them at that point, right?

I'm a Minuteman. I patrol the border because my gov't won't do it. I don't hate illegal aliens. I just don't want them sneaking across illegally. They cost my state alone over 5 billion dollars a year. They send back to Mexico around 30 billion dollars a year. They kill approximately 25 Americans a day. Americans that would be alive if illegals couldn't get in so easily. If their first action in our country is to break our laws then what makes you think they will be law abiding?

What is it with you pro-illegal types? Why is it okay for Mexico and other countries to enforce their immigration laws but it's not okay for us to do it?

 

[He Who Pawns]

Maybe we can "negro" them and make their votes count as 1/3 or something.

Maybe their votes shouldn't count at all since they are here illegally? Imagine that.

You open-borders folks don't seem to actually be considering the consequences of your ideas. Democrats will never lose another election if we grant amnesty to these law-breakers. Not only that, but you create a further moral hazard that will draw tens of millions of more social-welfare voters here.

Think about it.

 

[Pennsylvania]

And if Obama decrees thief to no longer be a crime, we should embrace the thieve.

No, because the thief violates property rights. Immigrants do not, at least not necessarily.

 

[Deborah K]

No, because the thief violates property rights. Immigrants do not, at least not necessarily.

Oh really?? Tell that to the ranchers that have to put up with this crap when illegals cross over!!

 

[Kludge]

We

Who?

 

[Pennsylvania]

I'm a Minuteman. I patrol the border because my gov't won't do it. I don't hate illegal aliens. I just don't want them sneaking across illegally.

You do not own property outside of your own.

They cost my state alone over 5 billion dollars a year. They send back to Mexico around 30 billion dollars a year. They kill approximately 25 Americans a day.

So if drug-dealers kill people, we should keep drugs illegal?

What is it with you pro-illegal types? Why is it okay for Mexico and other countries to enforce their immigration laws but it's not okay for us to do it?

It is not okay for them to do it either.

 

[Danke]

No, because the thief violates property rights. Immigrants do not, at least not necessarily.

Forced taxation is theft. Many illegals add in the cost of running government programs and agencies. So...

 

[Pennsylvania]

Oh really?? Tell that to the ranchers that have to put up with this crap when illegals cross over!!

That several immigrants violate property rights does not mean that all of them do. Thieves, by definition, always violate property rights. Do you see the collectivism involved in automatically associating immigrants with crime?

 

[Pennsylvania]

Forced taxation is theft. Many illegals add in the cost of running government programs and agencies. So...

So abolish taxation, not immigration.

 

[Danke]

... associating immigrants with crime?

Illegals. Not immigrants. I guess trespassing is not a crime in your book.

 

[Kludge]

Maybe their votes shouldn't count at all since they are here illegally? Imagine that.

You open-borders folks don't seem to actually be considering the consequences of your ideas. Democrats will never lose another election if we grant amnesty to these law-breakers. Not only that, but you create a further moral hazard that will draw tens of millions of more social-welfare voters here.

Think about it.

I've spoken briefly with you a couple times, and am a bit frustrated that I need to again stress that I am not in favor of open-borders.


Why are we focusing so much on immigration when that energy would be so much more beneficial being spent on fighting the Welfare system which is drawing some illegals over here and is destroying this country even if we DID put up an expensive wall and manned outposts throughout the Mexican border (the same would have to be done for Canada if you're going to fear-monger by including "prevent terrorism" in your list of reasons to secure "the border")?

As well, there is no "moral hazard". The law of the U.S. does not dictate conscience, nor "interpret" the words of God. Current U.S. immigration code is outrageous, and makes the immigration of unskilled laborers nearly impossible, and, at best, a 15-30 year wait. We have no right to deny those people the opportunity that was given to us due to luck. It's aristocracy, and very annoying to see on this forum.

 

[Danke]

So abolish taxation, not immigration.

I'm with you there. But stop talking about "immigrants." It is the illegal entry into the country we are discussing.

 

[qh4dotcom]

I'm a Minuteman. I patrol the border because my gov't won't do it. I don't hate illegal aliens. I just don't want them sneaking across illegally. They cost my state alone over 5 billion dollars a year. They send back to Mexico around 30 billion dollars a year. They kill approximately 25 Americans a day. Americans that would be alive if illegals couldn't get in so easily. If their first action in our country is to break our laws then what makes you think they will be law abiding?

What is it with you pro-illegal types? Why is it okay for Mexico and other countries to enforce their immigration laws but it's not okay for us to do it?

What do you do when you encounter an illegal alien? And how do you know if it's an illegal or not? Can you speak Spanish?

The Obama sheeple need to start learning their lesson the hard way....so I hope Obama pushes this through so that his poll numbers start going down.

Sorry but the natural disaster has to happen before the sheeple will turn against their Messiah....might as well be amnesty that comes first....at least this will hurt less now than the upcoming higher taxes.

 

[He Who Pawns]

Sure we'd all love to end all welfare and shrink the federal gov by 90%. But that is NOT going to happen anytime soon. So we are left with the reality of adding 20 million new voters who will vote to INCREASE government power and welfare spending, which in turn will attract tens of millions of more hoping for similar amnesty. Do you see where this is headed?????

We will never be able to shrink government if this happens. Think long and hard about that.

 

[Kludge]

Sure we'd all love to end all welfare and shrink the federal gov by 90%. But that is NOT going to happen anytime soon. So we are left with the reality of adding 20 million new voters who will vote to INCREASE government power and welfare spending, which in turn will attract tens of millions of more hoping for similar amnesty. Do you see where this is headed?????

We will never be able to shrink government if this happens. Think long and hard about that.

The half-ass border security has been complained about for about as long as FDR's New Deal. Welfare and awful immigration code is the root cause, illegal immigration is just a symptom.

 

[He Who Pawns]

The half-ass border security has been complained about for about as long as FDR's New Deal. Welfare and awful immigration code is the root cause, illegal immigration is just a symptom.

Why won't you address my main point: by granting amnesty to these law-breakers, it will create tens of millions of new pro-welfare voters, and kill ANY chance we have of shrinking the government and getting back to constitutional government. Does reality matter AT ALL to you?????

 

[Deborah K]

What do you do when you encounter an illegal alien? And how do you know if it's an illegal or not?

We watch them cross from Mexico in the desert- not at a legal crossing point. We call it in to our comm. center who then calls it in to the border patrol. Americans can't cross into Mexico that way either. If we did, the Federallies would throw us in jail.

 

[Deborah K]

You do not own property outside of your own.



So if drug-dealers kill people, we should keep drugs illegal?



It is not okay for them to do it either.

I just love it when people who have never had to live with illegal immigration pass judgement. Your first two responses don't even apply to what I said.

 

[Deborah K]

That several immigrants violate property rights does not mean that all of them do. Thieves, by definition, always violate property rights. Do you see the collectivism involved in automatically associating immigrants with crime?

There you go trying to blur the line between immigrants and illegal aliens. Typical. That's the only way you pro-illegals can find any semblance of an argument - by spewing disinformation. Illegal aliens start off breaking our laws by coming here illegally. They are criminals from the start.

 

[qh4dotcom]

Sure we'd all love to end all welfare and shrink the federal gov by 90%. But that is NOT going to happen anytime soon. So we are left with the reality of adding 20 million new voters who will vote to INCREASE government power and welfare spending, which in turn will attract tens of millions of more hoping for similar amnesty. Do you see where this is headed?????

We will never be able to shrink government if this happens. Think long and hard about that.

Where did you get that 20 million from? Like I said earlier only a fraction are going to get citizenship...not 20 million...and by the way they will likely start out with a green card which means no voting for several years...and by the time they get citizenship, China will have stopped lending money to the US...the economy will be in worse shape and experiencing hyperinflation and there will be civil unrest as Schiff (I see you have him as your avatar) is predicting....who would want to come here illegally or stay here under those conditions?

Look there's a reason why hundreds of illegals are self-deporting now...because the economy sucks.