Obama pays homage to victims of Argentina’s military dictatorship

charrob

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Obama pays homage to victims of Argentina’s military dictatorship

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Obama pays homage to victims of Argentina’s military dictatorship:


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BUENOS AIRES — President Obama paid homage Thursday morning to the victims of a military regime that came to power 40 years ago — initially with the support of the United States.

The coup on March 24, 1976, launched a dark period in Argentina known as the “Dirty War,” during which a military junta targeted leftists it viewed as an ideological threat. As many as 30,000 people were killed or “disappeared” — abducted and never heard from again — over the course of the next seven years.

Many Argentines have expressed dismay that Obama’s visit to their country coincides with the solemn anniversary. But the president has sought to use the moment to try to put to rest the United States’ fraught legacy in Latin America — a region that Washington dominated for decades, sometimes at the expense of those who did not belong to a small, wealthy elite.

On Thursday, Obama joined Argentine President Mauricio Macri at the Parque de la Memoria, or Remembrance Park, which lies alongside the Río de la Plata and features a long, gray stone wall with the names of 20,000 of the junta’s victims and their ages. The two leaders walked along the wall, onto a bridgehead, where they each took three white roses and tossed them into the river. They then stood for a moment with their heads bowed.

Speaking afterward to the assembled press corps, Obama both tacitly acknowledged U.S. support for the regime under the administration of President Gerald R. Ford and emphasized that the United States turned a corner after the election of Jimmy Carter in 1976.

“There’s been controversy about the policies of the United States early in those dark days, and the United States when it reflects on what happened here has to examine its own policies as well, in its own past,” he said. “Democracies have to have the courage to acknowledge when we don’t live up to the ideals that we stand for and we’ve been slow to speak out for human rights. And that was the case here.”

Praising Carter as “a president who understood that human rights is a fundamental element of foreign policy,” Obama argued that “that understanding is something that has influenced the way we’ve strived to conduct ourselves in the world ever since.”

And Obama, who noted that the U.S. government will now declassify military and intelligence records related to that period, said the global community needs to recognize that human rights violations continue to present a challenge around the world.

“Each of us have a responsibility each and every day to make sure that wherever we see injustice, wherever we see rule of law flouted, that we are honest witnesses,” he said, “that we’re speaking out and that we’re examining our own hearts, and taking responsibility to make this a better place for our children and our grandchildren.”

Macri said the 40th anniversary was “a marvelous opportunity for all of the Argentine people together to say and claim, never again. Never again in Argentina to political violence, never again to institutional violence.”

And he thanked Obama for collaborating with his country on the issue of human rights.

“This gives us an opportunity again to work together, the way you have been doing it, for the defense of these causes around the world,” Macri said.

But others did not feel as charitable toward the U.S. president.

Carlos Pisoni was just 37 days old in the summer of 1977 when both of his parents, who were members of the Montoneros, an urban guerrilla group, were arrested and disappeared. He was handed over to his grandmother, who raised him.

“For us, it’s a provocation that the U.S. president is here, because the U.S. government took part in the coup here as well as in other parts of the region, as declassified documents show,” said Pisoni, who joined a demonstration Thursday in Plaza de Mayo, where the mothers of the disappeared have been marching every Thursday afternoon for nearly four decades.

He noted that many of the military officers who tortured and killed people during the Dirty War were trained at the U.S. Army School of the Americas, a Pentagon-run military institute formerly based in Panama. And even though Pisoni welcomed the new round of declassification, he said none of the survivors or victims’ families decided to participate in Thursday’s event with Obama because there were too many “open wounds.”

Daniel James, a history professor at Indiana University Bloomington, said that Obama is far less controversial here than George W. Bush, who faced protests when he visited in 2005 for the Summit of the Americas. But James added that many Argentines still view the United States through the prism of its interventions in Latin American affairs during much of the past century.

“The idea of the U.S. as an ideological hegemon is still part of their ideological makeup,” he said, adding that “50 to 55 percent of Argentines don’t have a positive view of the United States and its role in the world.”
 
Obama pays homage to victims of Argentina’s military dictatorship communists
FIFY


So you support U.S. backed death squads performing U.S. taught torture against civilians in a country who democratically chose a form of government that you oppose? In other words, so you support force to have your way?
 
So you support U.S. backed death squads performing U.S. taught torture against civilians in a country who democratically chose a form of government that you oppose? In other words, so you support force to have your way?

I don't cry over spilt bolsheviks.
 
If you support force, than that is not very libertarian of you.

Libertarians don't object to force, they object to aggression.

Using force against criminals, in self-defense, is not aggression.

Hence, I have no problem with the use of force against communist guerillas.

...not to say that the other side was some model of libertarian virtue, far from it, but nor do I shed any tears for their communist victims.

Most libertarians support the self determination of other peoples.

If you mean democracy, yes, most libertarians do support that, but I don't, and it's in no way required by libertarianism.
 
Libertarians don't object to force, they object to aggression.

Using force against criminals, in self-defense, is not aggression.

Hence, I have no problem with the use of force against communist guerillas.

...not to say that the other side was some model of libertarian virtue, far from it, but nor do I shed any tears for their communist victims.



If you mean democracy, yes, most libertarians do support that, but I don't, and it's in no way required by libertarianism.


My understanding is the U.S. backed coup to overthrow the democratically elected gov't of Argentina which had a President Peron, replaced that government with a repressive military government having death squads that were taught even their torture techniques by the U.S.

So the question is: were these so-called guerillas, who you state were aggressive, a product of that coup and a product of that repression? Or were they there prior to that coup?

If people are aggressive and hurt other people that's an entirely different story. But my understanding was that most of the so-called "subversives" were not violent, hurt no one, and were simply tortured and "disappeared" because of their political ideology. They disagreed with the U.S. backed coup.
 
My understanding is the U.S. backed coup to overthrow the democratically elected gov't of Argentina which had a President Peron, replaced that government with a repressive military government having death squads that were taught even their torture techniques by the U.S.

That's right, but not the whole story.

So the question is: were these so-called guerillas, who you state were aggressive, a product of that coup and a product of that repression? Or were they there prior to that coup?

They were there prior to the coup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montoneros

By the time of the coup, the country was basically in the midst of a civil war, with the Peron government inept and near collapse.

The military staged the coup to prevent the communists from taking over, and then pursued the war against them with a vengeance.

If people are aggressive and hurt other people that's an entirely different story. But my understanding was that most of the so-called "subversives" were not violent, hurt no one, and were simply tortured and "disappeared" because of their political ideology. They disagreed with the U.S. backed coup.

They killed thousands, see the link above.

And, mind you, it's not just want they did, it's what they were planning to do (i.e. mount a communist revolution).

...it's hard to imagine anything worse from a libertarian perspective.
 
Nothing wrong about pushing youth out of helicopters to their death.
 
The Argentine story is a bit reminiscent of the Syrian civil war.

The official narrative focuses on the misbehavior of the Assad regime, ignoring the fact that it was merely reacting to a violent revolt.

...by insane Islamists, in this case, instead of insane communists.
 
The Argentine story is a bit reminiscent of the Syrian civil war.

The official narrative focuses on the misbehavior of the Assad regime, ignoring the fact that it was merely reacting to a violent revolt.

...by insane Islamists, in this case, instead of insane communists.

Lol. 30,000 "disappeared". Not arrested and jailed, but " disappeared."

And you worry about a Trump presidency?
 
Yes, we need a percrime division here too.

We're not facing an imminent communist revolution here, as far as I can tell.

What security measures are justified depends on the nature of the threat.

That's not to say that everything the Argentine dictatorship did was justified, certainly not.

No doubt there was much gratuitous violence, but those measures which were necessary to avoid a communist revolution were justified.

And you worry about a Trump presidency?

If the choice were between Trump and Mao Zedong, I'd be the biggest Trump supporter on the forum.

But it isn't, so I'm not.
 
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