OathKeepers Chicken Out

[Cowlesy]

Well not sure what your wink-face implies, but that 2A rally that people were going to carry openly within D.C. Metro just, as Admiral Ackbar would say:

What better place to snag a ton of pro-gun people than using some byzantine rule about D.C. Metro that no one knows about. All chest-thumping aside, that whole event is just shady to me.

 

[pcosmar]

Is this the 2nd Amendment rally that ends up at the Lincoln Memorial steps with Glenn Beck speaking?

What better place to snag a ton of pro-gun people than using some byzantine rule about D.C. Metro that no one knows about. All chest-thumping aside, that whole event is just shady to me.

Nope,

Oath Keepers withdraws from Virginia Open Carry Rally

 

[Anti Federalist]

As I understand it, the BoD is afraid that having OK labeled as a "militia" group or such would lead it to being labeled a "prohibited organization" that members of the Armed Forces can not join (security clearance), and are backing out of the commitment to speak at the event.

Which then goes to the question of what will the organization do when members get illegal orders. "We are just going to stand down." ignores the reality of disobeying an order - is it better to fight it out legally on the "prohibited organization" front (should it come to that, or wait until "crunch time" and hope the organization makes a stand.

In my mind it is an issue of credible deterrence - who believes those 10 orders won't be obeyed?

That was the vibe I was getting as well, although I didn't see it as being directly related to security clearances, but that makes sense.

Course it doesn't address the core issue at all, that being, when faced with a confrontation, of the mildest sort, they stood down.

I have no doubt that vast majority of the system's enforcers will, with gusto, vigor and smile on their faces, carry out those ten orders.

That's why all this talk of lying down with lions and singing Kumbaya is just that, meaningless talk.

 

[Cowlesy]

Nope,

Oath Keepers withdraws from Virginia Open Carry Rally

I see now. I guess the 2A rally in D.C. is not Open Carry, which is why OK is participating in it (still).

 

[Anti Federalist]

Nope,

Oath Keepers withdraws from Virginia Open Carry Rally

Where open carry is perfectly legal.

 

[Danke]

Where open carry is perfectly legal.

Open carrying is legal lawful everywhere. But it does take "confronting" government to assert that right.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Sorry, but not obeying orders is not confrontational.

The oaths being taken and the ten orders that will not be followed are most certainly confrontational.

You are saying, ahead of the fact, that you fully intend to disobey, (and I agree) what are considered to be "unlawful orders" but will be regarded as valid orders by the issuing authorities.

They will then view that oath as prima facie evidence that you have violated the UCMJ Article 134 - Conduct Prejudicial to Good Order and Discipline at the very least.

That's certainly a confrontation.

So is this...and what do you do?

YouTube - Michael Madsen in Wargames

 

[Anti Federalist]

Open carrying is legal lawful everywhere. But it does take "confronting" government to assert that right.

Very very true.

 

[amy31416]

Remember,

YouTube - In defense of freedom

Inspirational guy. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for him. Hopefully he'll be able to speak for himself again soon.

So, let's keep tabs...the Hutaree were betrayed by the Michigan Militia, and now the Oathkeepers have turned their backs on J4P?

Mmmkay.

 

[bunklocoempire]

“Chicken out” is a bit much.

Open carry and rally/march if one wants to. And perhaps “promises (?)” to attend shouldn’t have been made.

BUT, as I understand it:

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms was not emphasized by our founders as a “last resort” as so many McCain voters too scared to pull a different ballot lever like to believe –or pretend. The RKBA was not emphasized by our founders as an easily spun confrontational “show of force”, but as a back bone to do the right thing –peacefully and without confrontation.

In a voting situation, I don’t have to show someone (government) my gun to persuade them, nor would I want to.

I tend to believe a good number of “lesser of two evils” voters have signed up with the Oath Keepers and those are the majority of negative posters. I was somewhat surprised at the number of McCain voters who were bringing up the Oath Keepers the past year.

I only want to put the obama administration on notice that there are those of us who BELIEVE in the oath we took to defend the US Constitution and the country !

We are way past time to quit this non-confrontational BS and let the lefties know we’re not taking their crap anymore.

How much did Obama pay you to back out of this event like a coward?

IMO, an open carry rally or march would’ve (or would make) a huge difference if it was carried out under a Republican administration. The spin wouldn’t know what to do.

As it is, the spin is salivating for an event like this under the current administration, especially with all the hysteria and tools set up by the previous administration.

As it is now, the timing plays right into the ol’ Repubs vs. Dems smoke & mirrors thing.

I recommend zigging when government and media expect us to zag.

Strategy.

Bunkloco

 

[VegasPatriot]

I get so sick of seeing people on this forum talk shit about things they know nothing (or very little) about. I was going to write in detail about some of the concerns stated in this thread... but on second thought, fuck it. Just keep pissing on the ones trying to fight the good fight and see where that gets you. It was every now and then... but now it's daily that I wonder if I'm just wasting my time (and money) on this forum.

 

[constituent]

I get so sick of seeing people on this forum talk shit about things they know nothing (or very little) about. I was going to write in detail about some of the concerns stated in this thread... but on second thought, fuck it. Just keep pissing on the ones trying to fight the good fight and see where that gets you. It was every now and then... but now it's daily that I wonder if I'm just wasting my time (and money) on this forum.

"if only you knew what we know..."

"but that you're so dangerously uninformed..."

"we have inside information..."

heard it all before.

Glad I'm totally apathetic, I almost feel bad for all the fools who get butt hurt every time this sort of thing goes down.

 

[pcosmar]

I get so sick of seeing people on this forum talk shit about things they know nothing (or very little) about. I was going to write in detail about some of the concerns stated in this thread... but on second thought, fuck it. Just keep pissing on the ones trying to fight the good fight and see where that gets you. It was every now and then... but now it's daily that I wonder if I'm just wasting my time (and money) on this forum.

Take off your blinders.
I had hopes for the oathkeepers from the beginning. I think it was a great idea.
I have been watching,,hopeful. Some good talk, but the actions suck.

Show me examples of them standing up. SHOW ME.
Show me Officers refusing orders. Calling out the murders of civilians. Ain't happened.
Show me police arresting police. Stopping abuse. Ain't happening.
Show me something. How about standing up for one of their own?
July4Patriot. ??????? Where are they?

And now this shit.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

Take off your blinders.
I had hopes for the oathkeepers from the beginning. I think it was a great idea.
I have been watching,,hopeful. Some good talk, but the actions suck.

I'm not so quick to judge, and knowing most of the BoD, I trust they they mean well, despite any missteps/growing pains. Yes, they are moving very carefully and slowly

Show me examples of them standing up. SHOW ME.

They are not even a year old... There are plenty of videos of them speaking out.

Show me Officers refusing orders.

I met this guy in Vegas

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09031209.html...Armbruster, a law enforcement veteran of 17 years, says he was suspended for five days without pay and a disciplinary letter was put in his file because he refused to threaten the members with arrest. He says the group was not acting disorderly, and was within their free speech rights to spread their message on the public campus.

and this guy

http://www.lasvegascitylife.com/articles/2009/10/29/news/local_news/iq_32053198.txt IRON County Sheriff Mark Gower is tired of being pushed around by prairie dogs. For too long, the foraging rodents have thrown their federally-protected weight around the steppes of southern Utah.

"This is a fight I'm going to step up and take. This investigation of prairie dogs has gone on long enough," Gower says.

Gower has issues with the Endangered Species Act. He thinks it's unconstitutional because it infringes on the rights on private landowners. Gower promises to take a fine or even jail time instead of enforcing the federal law.

Calling out the murders of civilians. Ain't happened.

I've heard them multiple times referencing Ruby Ridge and Waco

Show me police arresting police. Stopping abuse. Ain't happening.

I hear you, we seem to have different expectations for a new org, but I look forward to more stopping of abuse as well.

Show me something. How about standing up for one of their own?
July4Patriot. ??????? Where are they?

I'll wait to hear from Charles...

And now this shit.

I understand your frustration, however, knowing Elias and others on the BoD, I find any charges of cowardice or kowtowing to Government to be over the top

 

[pcosmar]

I understand your frustration, however, knowing Elias and others on the BoD, I find any charges of cowardice or kowtowing to Government to be over the top

It is not frustration as much as disappointment. And it is not just me (I am not even relevant) But in reading around "other" places. Hundreds and perhaps thousands feel this way.
It was obvious from those that posted on their site.
From those that are dropping their membership.Those that were looking but now won't join.

It is a bad move.
They lost many over Charles Dyer.
They have just shot their credibility in the foot.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I get so sick of seeing people on this forum talk shit about things they know nothing (or very little) about. I was going to write in detail about some of the concerns stated in this thread... but on second thought, fuck it. Just keep pissing on the ones trying to fight the good fight and see where that gets you. It was every now and then... but now it's daily that I wonder if I'm just wasting my time (and money) on this forum.

"Dear Ron Paul Forums" thread in 3...2...1...

 

[Anti Federalist]

Alex Jones covering this right now

 

[pcosmar]

knowing Elias and others on the BoD,

I don't know them.
I know me. I can not even pick up a firearm. I certainly can't march with one.
I have a constant pain in my lower back from the knee of a Police Officer, inflicted during an arrest on my own land. I had committed no crime. offered NO resistance.
My wife's gun was stolen, and I was charged. (this was not the reason they were there initially)
It cost me several thousands of dollars to attempt to defend myself. Wiped out my savings.
I plead guilty to attempted possession to save my farm.

Now, men who can stand are backing down because the SPLC is saying mean things about them?

Yes, I am disappointed.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

It is not frustration as much as disappointment. And it is not just me (I am not even relevant) But in reading around "other" places. Hundreds and perhaps thousands feel this way.
It was obvious from those that posted on their site.
From those that are dropping their membership.Those that were looking but now won't join.

It is a bad move.
They lost many over Charles Dyer.
They have just shot their credibility in the foot.

I trust you know that I have a lot of respect for your voice and am more speaking to general concerns than you specifically

Turning one person's idea into many people's organization is rarely a pretty sight.

Look at CfL, or even RPFs...

About Charles, I am curious. I am not ruling out that the scrub was at his own request...

Again, not excusing any actions I know little background of, but must speak up regarding the honor of those I believe honorable.

It should, also be noted that the 6% of haters of the r3VOLution are very loud and sometimes seem like thousands... And that the neo-con haters will be seizing this op to try to shrink OK...

I'll still give em time...

 

[VegasPatriot]

"Dear Ron Paul Forums" thread in 3...2...1...

Fuck you