Not Happy with Iowa Infomercial...

[Naraku]

You're alienating all the pro-choice people on these forums by implying that they like to murder babies. The fact is that 1/3 of RP's supporters are pro-choice, so you have to learn to live with them.

They're not gonna stop supporting Ron Paul because of what some dude online with a username from an animé villain says about abortion. However, there's always a chance I could convince someone abortion should be illegal.

 

[LibertyEagle]

When did this forum become Rep vs. Dem? I thought we were all on the same side?

Exactly.

 

[richk]

They're not gonna stop supporting Ron Paul because of what some dude online with a username from an animé villain says about abortion. However, there's always a chance I could convince someone abortion should be illegal.

LOL. You never know, it's a pretty intense subject. And it was spreading into us vs. them territory, and we don't need that now. That's what the MSM and the 2 parties do, DIVIDE and CONQUER.

After Paul is president, I'm all for discussing divisive issues. I respect both sides of this issue, and I just don't think it's productive to discuss it, IMHO.

Merry xmas to everybody (if it applies to you )

 

[Lord Xar]

When did this forum become Rep vs. Dem? I thought we were all on the same side?

We are all on the same side.

BUT - that doesn't mean there are those who want to fracture us and make us less effective. Keep watchful eyes on posts that try to play us against each other. You will this now that Ron is rising... I am POSITIVE a few high volume posters here and many minumum to moderate number of posts from members - are in fact, paid opposition who will gradually and slowly start to pit us against each other... fighting "against" each other and thus creating sides..

The MOST obvious tactic those in power have is creating conflict where there isn't any... - thus sides MUST be taken...

If you see this, call it out and just inform the poster that we are ONE family here and despite our differences - we are here for Ron Paul.

 

[adwads]

We are all on the same side.

BUT - that doesn't mean there are those who want to fracture us and make us less effective. Keep watchful eyes on posts that try to play us against each other. You will this now that Ron is rising... I am POSITIVE a few high volume posters here and many minumum to moderate number of posts from members - are in fact, paid opposition who will gradually and slowly start to pit us against each other... fighting "against" each other and thus creating sides..

The MOST obvious tactic those in power have is creating conflict where there isn't any... - thus sides MUST be taken...

If you see this, call it out and just inform the poster that we are ONE family here and despite our differences - we are here for Ron Paul.

I agree that there are imposters, but we also must be careful not to use the word "troll" lightly.

And we must remember that there have been MANY contentious issues the grassroots has had to work through (e.g., bydlak, MLK day, etc.)...the informercial/abortion issue is the latest of many.

 

[ThePieSwindler]

This thread is still alive... figuers it would simply devolve into an abortion discussion.

 

[tanstaafl]

exactly

It is a real easy argument to win. Just explain to them that Ron Paul being a scholar of the constitution believes that Roe vs. Wade is unconstitutional based on the fact that it interferes with state rights. Paul believes that it should be left up for the states to decide. As the President it is more important for him to protect all life and liberty.

This is effectively the argument I use. When people ask me of his position on abortion, I say "He is an obstetrician who delivered over 4,000 babies and he is personally against abortion...." As I say this I WATCH the person I am talking to, if they look happy I LEAVE the issue there.

If they look unhappy or I otherwise feel I'm not closing the sale, I continue on with something like, "HOWEVER he is a strict Constitutionalist, which means he follows the Constitution regardless of personal preferences. Since the power to regulate abortion isn't a power given the Federal government in the Constitution, it is a State issue; and he is not running for a State government office.

Now, when I say this I am using what I have heard Dr. Paul say at various times. I am able to speak with conviction because, up until days such as today when it comes out that Dr. Paul is giving three different answers on the issue, I think I'm representing his position honestly and correctly.

If Dr. Paul wants to LOSE the election, he should keep doing what he is doing ... giving three different angles instead of sticking with the Constitutional angle and just letting it be.

Ron Paul could WIN California - not just at the primary level but at the election level - if he will just stick with the argument that he personally is against abortion but, under the Constitution, it is a State issue. If he keeps telling three different stories it is going to be brought out again, and again, and again during any general election and he will lose every single state which is not dominated by born again Christians.

We're going to have a war enough just trying to get rid of (a) military industrial complex or (b) IRS or (c) Federal Reserve. Accomplishing any one of those three would be one of the biggest accomplishments in US political history and will require a massive restructuring of the Congress and, absolutely, a major groundswell of unanimity from more than half the American People.

If Dr. Paul also wants to place outlawing abortion front and center, he is going to accomplish nothing. He will never get critical support. Further, if he continues to trot it out as a leading issue, instead of answering the question according to what he has said before...that he personally is against abortion but it is NONE of the President's business...then he hasn't got a CHANCE of being elected at all.

Personally, I really sit on the fence on this issue. I am not pro-life in the strident Bible thumping way - and I will not vote for someone who is...probably not even if it is Dr. Paul. On the other hand, I'm not pro-choice, either - although I'm of the opinion that some of the babies I've seen raised by crack Moms would have been better off aborted...and I've noticed how few of the "pro life" people have adopted crack babies.

Anyway, Dr. Paul is doing NOBODY but the opposition a favor by giving so many versions of his position that EVEN RON PAUL SUPPORTERS ARE ALL OVER THE BOARD ON WHAT, SPECIFICALLY, HE WOULD DO WITH THE ISSUE IF HE BECAME PRESIDENT.

THIS sort of utter confusion - this sort of babble of opinions on where he stands - is intolerable if we want to win. It's hard to believe he is making this sort of blunder - he is normally so well thought through and so consistent on seeing everything through the lens of the 10th Amendment.

 

[adwads]

THIS sort of utter confusion - this sort of babble of opinions on where he stands - is intolerable if we want to win. It's hard to believe he is making this sort of blunder - he is normally so well thought through and so consistent on seeing everything through the lens of the 10th Amendment.

Honestly, I have no proof, but my hunch is that his advisers are behind his dancing around on the abortion issue...We have seen time and time again that the official campaign is totally incompetent...the bigger it gets, the more incompetent it gets. RP should NOT be "microtargeting" his message to specific groups of voters--this is why we HATE all other politicians.

 

[reduen]

My family and I all loved the commercial!

 

[Naraku]

I would say definitely the campaign is partly trying to lead Paul around on issues to get the desired effect.

BUT - that doesn't mean there are those who want to fracture us and make us less effective. Keep watchful eyes on posts that try to play us against each other. You will this now that Ron is rising... I am POSITIVE a few high volume posters here and many minumum to moderate number of posts from members - are in fact, paid opposition who will gradually and slowly start to pit us against each other... fighting "against" each other and thus creating sides..

Noooooooo. You caught me, I'm really a Giulianibot. You've foiled my dastardly plans!

Honestly, people should stop being paranoid. I don't think anyone here is secretly undercover working for the opposition. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. For one, none of the other campaigns are smart enough to do it.

 

[tanstaafl]

...Honestly, people should stop being paranoid. I don't think anyone here is secretly undercover working for the opposition. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. For one, none of the other campaigns are smart enough to do it.

If you aren't simply joking now, then you ARE wrong. At least one poster has identified himself as working for Huckabee's campaign. My guess is there are dozens of posters here who are actually opposed to Ron Paul and doubtless hundreds of lurkers. And the number will certainly grow as Paul advances.

You probably are joking, but we all ought to be aware of the kinds of stunts that people such as Rove are known to have successfully pulled off in the past. And there are other exploits, such as the Plame scandal, which actually cross over into felonious behavior which we should expect as well.

 

[Naraku]

Eh, I don't buy it, but you believe what you will. I for one don't care.

 

[jeff_from_VA]

I agree with Ron Paul on all issues, including abortion. I for one am very glad he makes it clear that murdering children is wrong.

I find it funny if someone wants the kid, and you kill her, you get charged with not one, but 2 murders. All at the same time allowing people to murder their own children, because they are not convenient to them at that time.

I am all for a states rights aproach, as 95% of the states will outlaw murder. Only the liberal super centers like NY and Cali will continue to kill babies as fast as they can.

 

[adwads]

I agree with Ron Paul on all issues, including abortion. I for one am very glad he makes it clear that murdering children is wrong.

I find it funny if someone wants the kid, and you kill her, you get charged with not one, but 2 murders. All at the same time allowing people to murder their own children, because they are not convenient to them at that time.

I am all for a states rights aproach, as 95% of the states will outlaw murder. Only the liberal super centers like NY and Cali will continue to kill babies as fast as they can.

This isn't helpful here. If your going to talk like this at all, it should be in hot topics.

 

[jeff_from_VA]

This isn't helpful here. If your going to talk like this at all, it should be in hot topics.

How is it not helpful? Because I agree with the Ad Ron Paul himself put out, and the position that Ron Paul himself takes?

 

[adwads]

How is it not helpful? Because I agree with the Ad Ron Paul himself put out, and the position that Ron Paul himself takes?

Because this thread is not supposed to be debating abortion, but the merits of the infomercial.

And because the language you use is ridiculous and inflammatory. Of course nobody supports "murdering children.".

 

[jenkoolkat]

I think most dont understand Ron Pauls position on abortion and maybe I dont exactly but here is what I think he means. He will leave it up to the states and does not want the federal govt to pay for some poor persons abortion and if you want to live in a state where abortion is legal then move there. If not then if you need one drive there.

Its like other issues. There are some states that dont sell liquor on Sundays, I remeber going on vacation to a southern beach and we went out to dinner and couldnt get a bottle of wine.

A lot of people move to CA for freedoms like that sort of. In CA they dispense Medical Marijuana but not in other states so if that is important to you then move there. They outlaw public smoking so move there if you dont like smoking.

Nevada casinos love smokers - move there to smoke..

New Hampshire doesnt accept the federal seatbelt law.

Thats simplified but I hope you get what I mean

 

[jeff_from_VA]

Because this thread is not supposed to be debating abortion, but the merits of the infomercial.

And because the language you use is ridiculous and inflammatory. Of course nobody supports "murdering children.".

Well how should I put it to make everyone feel okay about it? I mean after all abortion does what exactly if not killing a child?

 

[PledgeForPaul]

Well how should I put it to make everyone feel okay about it? I mean after all abortion does what exactly if not killing a child?

are you a troll?

 

[PgmrPaul]

I wish we could go back and stick with Dr. Paul's standard position on abortion, which as I understand it is that he opposes it personally, believes it is not a federal issue under the constitution, and wants Roe v. Wade repealed so that each state can deal with it.

This topic hit nerves because it involves one side calling the other 'baby killers' and getting the return accusation of 'enslavers of women.' I think both sides have a point at the extremes. The made-up statistic I heard is that few Americans agree with either absolutist position on abortion. Supposedly almost no one believes that it is okay to kill an unborn baby when it is developed enough to live outside the womb. On the other hand, almost no one believes that a woman should be executed for murder if she misses breakfast and that causes the two-celled embryo in her womb to spontaneously abort on any given day. There is also the libertarian realization that everyone owns their own body, and that as a practical matter the government cannot usually prevent or even detect miscarriages or abortions. If the government attempts to do so it will surely fail at anything except further establishing the police state.

Part of being an adult is realizing that sometimes you have to agree to disagree. In this case maybe we can argue this issue in our individual states after we elect Ron Paul and Iraqi babies stop getting killed in our names. I hope no one will get upset and turn their back on Ron Paul over this argument on this forum. It is not his fault, and we are all needed to achieve the objectives that brought us together in the first place.