New Mexico Governor Takes Away Right to Carry for Public Health "Emergency"

Anti Federalist said:
Swordsmyth said:
Anti Federalist said:
And your views are also in the vast majority of American citizen's views.

Which is why there is no hope of ever turning this around.
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That's incorrect.
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I hope and pray every day that I am wrong.
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Even if your first statement is correct, the second is not. [1]

That's because the views of the "majority of American" don't really matter.

Their views (whatever they may be) are ultimately not what determines how things will go.

What determines how things will go are the particular circumstances under which a minority (and it is always a minority) either (1) imposes [2] its will upon the rest, or (2) resists [3] the attempts of some other minority to impose its will upon the rest.

All of history is a train of contentions between active minorities. The majority of people simply go along with whatever the results of those contentions may be [4]. Thus, all that is necessary for "turning this around" is that there are enough people - not a majority, or even a plurality, but just "enough" (however much that might be) in the right places at the right times (whatever those might be) - to accomplish (2).

IOW: Minorities lead and majorities follow.

IOOW: There is always hope - but there are never guarantees.

"It's possible we will lose. It's impossible that we must lose. That is the white pill." -- Michael Malice
​



[1] You sense this on some level, which is why you ended up saying "I hope [...] I am wrong [that 'there is no hope']". ;)

[2]
Anti Federalist said:
https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1701024135026286810
K94Qvrj.png
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[3] Peaceably (by active non-compliance) and/or violently (through force or threat of force).

[4] The practice of mass democracy has deceived many people into thinking otherwise, and has deluded them into imagining that (the mass of) "The People" are somehow ultimately in charge of anything. (That's why so many politicians profess to love "our democracy" so much.)
 
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Occam's Banana said:
Even if your first statement is correct, the second is not. [1]

That's because the views of the "majority of American" don't really matter.

Their views (whatever they may be) are ultimately not what determines how things will go.

What determines how things will go are the particular circumstances under which a minority (and it is always a minority) either (1) imposes its will upon the rest, or (2) resists [2] the attempts of some other minority to impose its will upon the rest.

All of history is a train of contentions between active minorities. The majority of people simply go along with whatever the results of those contentions may be [3]. Thus, all that is necessary for "turning this around" is that there are enough people - not a majority, or even a plurality, but just "enough" (however much that might be) in the right places at the right times (whatever those might be) - to accomplish (2).

IOW: Minorities lead and majorities follow.

IOOW: There is always hope - but there are never guarantees.

"It's possible we will lose. It's impossible that we must lose. That is the white pill." -- Michael Malice
​



[1] You sense this on some level, which is why you ended up saying "I hope [...] I am wrong [that 'there is no hope']". ;)

[2] Peaceably (by active non-compliance) and/or violently (through force or threat of force).

[3] The practice of mass democracy has deceived many people into thinking otherwise, and has deluded them into imagining that (the mass of) "The People" are somehow ultimately in charge of anything. (That's why so many politicians profess to love "our democracy" so much.)
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You're right, of course, but the key word is "ultimately".

When Rome fell, for many of the same reasons the West is falling now, the western world was plunged into a "Dark Age" that lasted almost 1000 years.

It took the USSR 70 years to fail.

The Khmer Rouge failed in 7.

But look at the lives lost and bloodshed and ground lost, in "civil society".

How much better off would the people of Rome have been, or Russia or Cambodia, among so many others, had none of that happened?

But, sooner or later, things do "right themselves".

But goddamn, what a cost, when some simple vigilance and meaningful resistance would have prevented it.

I hate living in a dying empire, I hate knowing if my enemies are successful, my posterity will be annihilated.

In short, I hate living in the "Weak Men Make Bad Times" portion of the cycle.
 
Anti Federalist said:
You're right, of course, but the key word is "ultimately".

When Rome fell, for many of the same reasons the West is falling now, the western world was plunged into a "Dark Age" that lasted almost 1000 years.

It took the USSR 70 years to fail.

The Khmer Rouge failed in 7.

But look at the lives lost and bloodshed and ground lost, in "civil society".

How much better off would the people of Rome have been, or Russia or Cambodia, among so many others, had none of that happened?

But, sooner or later, things do "right themselves".

But goddamn, what a cost, when some simple vigilance and meaningful resistance would have prevented it.

I hate living in a dying empire, I hate knowing if my enemies are successful, my posterity will be annihilated.

In short, I hate living in the "Weak Men Make Bad Times" portion of the cycle.
Click to expand...

I can't really argue with any of that, since it's pretty much spot on.

Even so, there is still cause to think any such American "interregnum", if it occurs, would be relatively shorter and less severe. Unlike ancient Rome, (pre-)modern Russia, etc., America has a tradition that is distinctly and strongly "libertarian-ish" (at least, compared to all those others). And even though politically that tradition may at present be "a custom more honour'd in the breach than the observance", there is, I think, a sufficient residuum or "Remnant" [1], as broad and inchoate as it may be, so as to mitigate or ameliorate (or in some cases or some ways even prevent) the worst of any "Weak Men / Bad Times" dynamic.

With respect to human liberty, as far short of that ideal as we may have gotten, we still got much further along towards it than in any of those other times and places - and so there is much further we have to fall than they did before things sink to their level. None of which means it can't happen, of course, but despite the lack of any guarantees, there are still reasons for hope (even if it is only that things might not become as bad as they could - and thus that things might "right themselves" sooner than they otherwise would).



[1] As evidenced by things like the Ron Paul movement and the existence of these very forums, for example.
 
Anti Federalist said:
LMMFAO

Why does that not surprise me?



I am so relieved you approve, I'll notify my people in NM to carry on.
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Yeah, this time I do approve. It was in response to a massive over reach by a liberal governor. She went too far and this push back is deserved. I've always said open carry should be legal, but just because it is legal doesn't mean you should do it. But in the face of absolute BS like this public health declaration thing, I think what these people did is fine. When somebody like me thinks this is ok, you know the liberals went too far.
 
Occam's Banana said:
I can't really argue with any of that, since it's pretty much spot on.

Even so, there is still cause to think any such American "interregnum", if it occurs, would be relatively shorter and less severe. Unlike ancient Rome, (pre-)modern Russia, etc., America has a tradition that is distinctly and strongly "libertarian-ish" (at least, compared to all those others). And even though politically that tradition may at present be "a custom more honour'd in the breach than the observance", there is, I think, a sufficient residuum or "Remnant" [1], as broad and inchoate as it may be, so as to mitigate or ameliorate (or in some cases or some ways even prevent) the worst of any "Weak Men / Bad Times" dynamic.

With respect to human liberty, as far short of that ideal as we may have gotten, we still got much further along towards it than in any of those other times and places - and so there is much further we have to fall than they did before things sink to their level. None of which means it can't happen, of course, but despite the lack of any guarantees, there are still reasons for hope (even if it is only that things might not become as bad as they could - and thus that things might "right themselves" sooner than they otherwise would).



[1] As evidenced by things like the Ron Paul movement and the existence of these very forums, for example.
Click to expand...

Here's to hoping you are right and I am wrong.
 
https://twitter.com/gunpolicy/status/1701469177918156933
p9bnh1N.png


Bernalillo County sheriff rejects gun violence health order
"It's irritating for me to see how this 30-day ban completely overshadowed the robust conversations we had with the governor on what we are going to do to curb gun violence and for people to stop being victims," BCSO Sheriff John Allen said
https://www.koat.com/article/bernalillo-county-sheriff-gun-health-order/45082887
Faith Egbuonu | 11 September 2023

BERNALILLO COUNTY, N.M. — Bernalillo County Sheriff John Allen said his office would not enforce the latest public health order to combat gun violence in a press conference on Monday, Sept. 11.

The announcement was in response to Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham's public health order on firearms in Albuquerque and the county. The order will ban concealed and open carry in those areas for the next 30 days after being enacted last Friday.

Allen described the order as unconstitutional and said he learned about the order just minutes before the announcement last week. The public health order was issued after an 11-year-old boy was killed in Albuquerque.

"The governor made it clear in her press conference," Allen said. "She knew we as law enforcement did not agree with the order, and as a result, this was solely her decision."

He went on to say that this order will not assist him in making the county safer for the public or his policing staff.

"This order will not do anything to curb gun violence other than punish law-abiding citizens from their constitutional right of self-defense," Allen said.

Allen also cited political violence as a reason not to enforce the public health order.

BCSO Sheriff John Allen's plan to address ongoing crime

  • Ask Crime Reduction director of BCSO to lead task force of various law enforcement agencies to focus on crimes with firearms
  • Continuous meetings for early intervention for adult and youth offenders
  • Requesting Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham to consider a special session to address crime for the entire state of New Mexico
"We need to look at solutions to address violent crimes involving juveniles with firearms, adults with firearms, pretrial release and harsh penalties for violent crimes which also involve a firearm," Allen said.

"The planning will and continue with the mayor of Albuquerque, Tim Keller, chief of New Mexico State Police Troy Whistler, chief of the Albuquerque Police Department Harold Medina, and District Attorney Sam Bregman. I will also be contacting federal entities such as the FBI and the U.S. Attorney to assist us and make sure we work as a team to curb gun violence and so many other crimes that we see in Bernalillo County," Allen said.

Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham sent KOAT a statement following BCSO's rejection:

"I don’t need a lecture on constitutionality from Sheriff Allen: what I need is action. What we need is for leaders to stand up for the victims of violent crime. We need law enforcement, district attorneys, public officials, school leaders and state agencies to use every single tool at their disposal to stop this violence. Period.

This is an administration that has treated the gun violence epidemic as the crisis that it is. We’ve passed common-sense gun legislation, including red flag laws, domestic violence protections, a ban on straw purchases, and safe storage laws; dedicated hundreds of millions of dollars to a fund specifically to help law enforcement hire and retain officers; increased penalties for violent offenders and provided massive support to intervention programs.

We've given you the tools, Sheriff Allen— now stop being squeamish about using them. I will not back down from doing what’s right and I will always put the safety of the people of New Mexico first.”
 
Occam's Banana said:
[underline emphasis added - OB]
Allen described the order as unconstitutional and [...]

[...] also cited political violence as a reason not to enforce the public health order.

BCSO Sheriff John Allen's plan to address ongoing crime

  • [bureaucrats should blah-blah-blah]
  • [bureaucrats should also yada-yada-yada]
  • [politicians should argle-bargle diddly-do]
[more vacuous PR-speak gibber-jabber about "look[ing] at solutions" and "planning" and "work[ing] as a team" :rolleyes:]
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The so-called "public health order" is "political violence".

So either:
(1) do your goddam job & arrest the bitch who issued it, or
(2) simply STFU and obey the orders you've been given.

In any case, please just spare us all the spinelessly half-assed, mealy-mouthed "both sides" pandering.
 
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Matt Collins said:
Nice to see law enforcement isn't just "following orders"
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I suppose it is, in the same way it's "nice" to see firefighters who aren't just setting peoples' homes on fire.

But if they're not also putting out fires, then what is even the point of them?

(Not doing the opposite of what one is supposed to do should be the mundane, expected, and entirely un-noteworthy default.)
 
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