New Hampshire revisited....How the hell did we do so poorly?

[The One]

I was just checking out freestateproject.org, and in the top left-hand area of the home page is a screen that scrolls through highlights of various policies in the State of New Hampshire. I cannot square how a state with the policies listed on that page could have gone less than 10% for Ron Paul.

What is the damn deal? This goes hand-in-hand with another thread I was just reading here in General Politics. It was in regards to how so many people can be anti-war and still vote McCain. How could the people of New Hampshire have a man like RP right in front of them, who seems to be such and hand-in-glove fit with the mindset of the people of New Hampshire, but less than 10 % of them actually voted for him?

I know we've moved on from NH, and there's no point revisiting it, but it all just really hit home for me when I was reading that information on the freestateproject page. Why couldn't we even do well with the very like-minded voters of NH??? I can only go back to the "voters are stupid" argument. It's all just a popularity contest, and the actual positions of the candidates matter not.

 

[fedup100]

I am beginning to wonder. When a person goes to vote in their elections, they will know they and or their family and friends may have voted for Paul, but if and When the final results say someone like McCain won, they can only think there weren't enough voters on there side.

In other words, with voter fraud, we are all in our own little world of our votes, we would never figure out that he really had no votes, we just have to take the corrupt counters word for it. I remember Ross Perot, we all voted for him. I owned a Real Estate Company at that time, I just couldn't find people who had not voted for him.

With vote fraud we will never know. I know this, and I am hearing it from other states and cities also that the only signs out there are Paul signs. We gage the number of Paul supporters by the money raised. So when you look at the others money they have raised, they have no voters sending them money. The fraud is blatant and in our face. These elections are Alice and Wonderland.

I know these other clowns really do not have a base of voters, look at Obama's money bomb, he has no supporters. I believe the vote fraud is as blatant as the msm censorship. I believe we have won, but we will never know it.

Sorry for being so down, but the fraud and corruption will not be over come.......peacefully.

 

[DBJ1414]

A Very Good ??????-i Would Like The Answer Too- Was It Voter Fraud

I was just checking out freestateproject.org, and in the top left-hand area of the home page is a screen that scrolls through highlights of various policies in the State of New Hampshire. I cannot square how a state with the policies listed on that page could have gone less than 10% for Ron Paul.

What is the damn deal? This goes hand-in-hand with another thread I was just reading here in General Politics. It was in regards to how so many people can be anti-war and still vote McCain. How could the people of New Hampshire have a man like RP right in front of them, who seems to be such and hand-in-glove fit with the mindset of the people of New Hampshire, but less than 10 % of them actually voted for him?

I know we've moved on from NH, and there's no point revisiting it, but it all just really hit home for me when I was reading that information on the freestateproject page. Why couldn't we even do well with the very like-minded voters of NH??? I can only go back to the "voters are stupid" argument. It's all just a popularity contest, and the actual positions of the candidates matter not.

A VERY GOOD ??????????- I WOULD LIKE THE ANSWER TOO- WHY DIDNT WE DO BETTER IN- NH - WAS IT VOTER FRAUD-??????- DOUG

 

[liberteebell]

There was a thread here that said the msm won and I believe that has some merit. mcwar was dead in the water prior to NH. But then, Bhutto was assassinated and mcwar's face was on teevee 24/7. I think, generally, the attention span of the American people is about 2 nanoseconds. And they're all a bunch of fraidy-cats, scared to death of a few islamoterrorists even as the economy crashes right before their eyes.

Add to that, most are not politically astute in any way shape or form even though they think they are. I talked to a man yesterday who bitterly complained, "why does a conservative like me always wind up married to a liberal wife?". (I thought, "easy convert, yay!!!). Oh but no, he tried to tell me how conservative huckleberry is and refused to hear anything about how conservative Ron Paul is. And he even had the nerve to go on about how Ron Paul doesn't look good or sound good on teevee. I guess he'd be happy with just another empty suit. I wanted to scream AND curse!

People don't think. It's all about how something or someone makes them feel (that's why our campaign needs some corny, feel-good, slick ads).

My girlfriend was in NH for 2 weeks before the primary and she said that NH had been invaded and taken over by people from taxachusetts and brought all their socialist ideas with them.

The lesson here is to not put all our eggs in one basket. This was such a disappointment for some, they all but gave up. I was disappointed too but I also realize that this is a monumental challenge and that it's not going to be easy. It takes time for people to wake the hell up and our largest obstacle is fighting the lies perpetrated by the msm.

 

[DBJ1414]

I Agree- With Fedup-it May Have Been Voter Fraud-but We May Never Learn The Truth

I am beginning to wonder. When a person goes to vote in their elections, they will know they and or their family and friends may have voted for Paul, but if and When the final results say someone like McCain won, they can only think there weren't enough voters on there side.

In other words, with voter fraud, we are all in our own little world of our votes, we would never figure out that he really had no votes, we just have to take the corrupt counters word for it. I remember Ross Perot, we all voted for him. I owned a Real Estate Company at that time, I just couldn't find people who had not voted for him.

With vote fraud we will never know. I know this, and I am hearing it from other states and cities also that the only signs out there are Paul signs. We gage the number of Paul supporters by the money raised. So when you look at the others money they have raised, they have no voters sending them money. The fraud is blatant and in our face. These elections are Alice and Wonderland.

I know these other clowns really do not have a base of voters, look at Obama's money bomb, he has no supporters. I believe the vote fraud is as blatant as the msm censorship. I believe we have won, but we will never know it.

Sorry for being so down, but the fraud and corruption will not be over come.......peacefully.

I AGREE- WITH FEDUP- IT MAY HAVE BEEN VOTER FRAUD-BUT WE MAY NEVER LEARN THE TRUTH - EVEN WHEN WE GET THE RESULTS FROM THE NH VOTER RECOUNT -TAKING PLACE NOW-DOUG

 

[Bradley in DC]

The ads from HQ sabotaged our support.

Polls showed that many voters were considering between Paul and McCain because of "character" issues (independent, speaks his mind, etc.). McCain's 100 years comment demonstrated his character and independence (even if he's wrong). Paul's ads however were false attack ads on Huckabee on taxes--ie, bad character. So, most of the voters considering between the two then voted for McCain.

Similarly, in Iowa, the offensive immigration ads chased Dr. Paul anti-war independent supporters over to Obama.

Being able to read the cross tabs of the polls and move voters is not rocket science.

 

[DBJ1414]

I Agree- With Bradley- I Didnt Like Our Ads

The ads from HQ sabotaged our support.

Polls showed that many voters were considering between Paul and McCain because of "character" issues (independent, speaks his mind, etc.). McCain's 100 years comment demonstrated his character and independence (even if he's wrong). Paul's ads however were false attack ads on Huckabee on taxes--ie, bad character. So, most of the voters considering between the two then voted for McCain.

Similarly, in Iowa, the offensive immigration ads chased Dr. Paul anti-war independent supporters over to Obama.

Being able to read the cross tabs of the polls and move voters is not rocket science.

I AGREE- WITH BRADLEY- I DIDNT LIKE OUR ADS - PLUS EVEN WITH THE TV ON ALL THE TIME- I RARELY SAW A RON PAUL AD -IN COMPARISON TO THE OTHER CANDIDATES- I DID RECIEVE HOWEVER MANY RON PAUL MAILERS- DOUG

 

[The One]

I am beginning to wonder. When a person goes to vote in their elections, they will know they and or their family and friends may have voted for Paul, but if and When the final results say someone like McCain won, they can only think there weren't enough voters on there side.

In other words, with voter fraud, we are all in our own little world of our votes, we would never figure out that he really had no votes, we just have to take the corrupt counters word for it. I remember Ross Perot, we all voted for him. I owned a Real Estate Company at that time, I just couldn't find people who had not voted for him.

With vote fraud we will never know. I know this, and I am hearing it from other states and cities also that the only signs out there are Paul signs. We gage the number of Paul supporters by the money raised. So when you look at the others money they have raised, they have no voters sending them money. The fraud is blatant and in our face. These elections are Alice and Wonderland.

I know these other clowns really do not have a base of voters, look at Obama's money bomb, he has no supporters. I believe the vote fraud is as blatant as the msm censorship. I believe we have won, but we will never know it.

Sorry for being so down, but the fraud and corruption will not be over come.......peacefully.

After reading the freestateproject information today, I'm beginning to wonder, too. I always knew that NH was very fertile ground for RP, but I didn't realize how much so until today. The fact that we didn't do better does tend to give credibility to the voter fraud charges. I had never considered that to be a very realistic possibility before, given the repurcussions for anyone caught participating in voter fraud. However, I've reached a point where I just can't find a rational explanation. I've heard a quote that goes something like......Once you have ruled out all other possibilities, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the answer.

 

[DBJ1414]

I Agree - With The One & His Comment- I Believe Voter Fraud May Have Taken Place In

After reading the freestateproject information today, I'm beginning to wonder, too. I always knew that NH was very fertile ground for RP, but I didn't realize how much so until today. The fact that we didn't do better does tend to give credibility to the voter fraud charges. I had never considered that to be a very realistic possibility before, given the repurcussions for anyone caught participating in voter fraud. However, I've reached a point where I just can't find a rational explanation. I've heard a quote that goes something like......Once you have ruled out all other possibilities, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the answer.

I AGREE-WITH THE ONE & HIS COMMENT- I BELIEVE VOTER FRAUD MAY HAVE TAKEN PLACE IN NH - BUT WE MAY NEVER LEARN THE TRUTH EVEN -AFTER THE RESULTS OF THE NH RECOUNT- WHICH ARE EXPECTED TO TAKE UP TO 6 WEEKS- TOO LATE TO HELP US IN THE 5 FEB PRIMARIES-DOUG

 

[NoLimit]

Every time you type in all caps, God kills a kitten

 

[CaveDog]

The free state project is really just a small factor these days and though dedicated, don't really represent the political climate in a broader sense.

Things have changed drastically here in NH over the past few years. A lot of the policies still in place are more legacy than current and they're under attack every legislative session. We've had a tremendous demographic shift here that's intensified over the past years to the point that after about 80 years in power the republican majority at the state house was swept out in 2006 and replaced with democrats. The same shift has affected the republican side too, as a lot of republicans here are now the same sort of rinos that collaborate with the left in DC. There are people here so offended by the notion of liberty that they want an alternative license plate with a motto like "scenic New Hampshire" instead of the current "Live free or die" license plates.

RP probably would have done better in the old NH, but in the new NH I'm not so surprised he polled poorly.

 

[The One]

Every time you type in all caps, God kills a kitten

LMAO.....I was also wondering if the dashes are the written equivalent of the Pat Buchanan hand chops that were being discussed in another thread.

 

[The One]

The free state project is really just a small factor these days and though dedicated, don't really represent the political climate in a broader sense.

Things have changed drastically here in NH over the past few years. A lot of the policies still in place are more legacy than current and they're under attack every legislative session. We've had a tremendous demographic shift here that's intensified over the past years to the point that after about 80 years in power the republican majority at the state house was swept out in 2006 and replaced with democrats. The same shift has affected the republican side too, as a lot of republicans here are now the same sort of rinos that collaborate with the left in DC. There are people here so offended by the notion of liberty that they want an alternative license plate with a motto like "scenic New Hampshire" instead of the current "Live free or die" license plates.

RP probably would have done better in the old NH, but in the new NH I'm not so surprised he polled poorly.

Thanks for your post. It is very informative and seems to explain alot. Do you happen to know if there is another state where perhaps the opposite has happened.....a state that has moved in the direction of liberty as opposed to moving away from it?

 

[InLoveWithRon]

Well voters are stupid.. Proof is that most McCain voters thought McCain was against the war. Here's Ron Paul himself stating that the campaign did research and they found out that most McCain voters in New Hampshire thought McCain was against the war..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=P_nHlsjqpMU&feature=related

Ron says it at the 2:15 mark

 

[DBJ1414]

By The Way-im More Of A Dog Person - Not A Cat Person-lol

Every time you type in all caps, God kills a kitten

BY THE WAY - IM MORE OF A DOG PERSON - NOT A CAT PERSON-LOL

 

[liberteebell]

Thanks for your post. It is very informative and seems to explain alot. Do you happen to know if there is another state where perhaps the opposite has happened.....a state that has moved in the direction of liberty as opposed to moving away from it?

I don't know if there's a particular state but I think we'll do well in the south and, obviously the western states, where rugged individualism is still somewhat popular. We did fairly well in NV and LA despite the msm.

Can you imagine if we'd been given even a scintilla of fair treatment by the msm? (I know, I know, but I can dream, can't I?)

 

[DBJ1414]

I Dont Know - What The Dashes Mean-lol

LMAO.....I was also wondering if the dashes are the written equivalent of the Pat Buchanan hand chops that were being discussed in another thread.

I DONT KNOW- WHAT THE DASHES MEAN-LOL-DOUG

 

[DBJ1414]

A Great Post- Cavedog - I Agree With You

The free state project is really just a small factor these days and though dedicated, don't really represent the political climate in a broader sense.

Things have changed drastically here in NH over the past few years. A lot of the policies still in place are more legacy than current and they're under attack every legislative session. We've had a tremendous demographic shift here that's intensified over the past years to the point that after about 80 years in power the republican majority at the state house was swept out in 2006 and replaced with democrats. The same shift has affected the republican side too, as a lot of republicans here are now the same sort of rinos that collaborate with the left in DC. There are people here so offended by the notion of liberty that they want an alternative license plate with a motto like "scenic New Hampshire" instead of the current "Live free or die" license plates.

RP probably would have done better in the old NH, but in the new NH I'm not so surprised he polled poorly.

A GREAT POST - CAVE DOG - I AGREE WITH YOU - - WE GOT TOO MANY THAT MOVED FROM MASS - UP HERE TO NH - BRINGING THEIR DEMOCRATIC/TAXUCHUSETTS WAYS HERE- TO OUR LIVE FREE OR DIE STATE-THIS IS NOT THE SAME NH - HOPEFULLY THE FREE STATE PROJECT WILL CHANGE THAT- & GIVE US BACK OUR -OLD NH & FREEDOM-DOUG

 

[DBJ1414]

It Was A Very Informative Post - I Agree With You -the One

Thanks for your post. It is very informative and seems to explain alot. Do you happen to know if there is another state where perhaps the opposite has happened.....a state that has moved in the direction of liberty as opposed to moving away from it?

IT WAS A VERY INFORMATIVE POST - I AGREE WITH YOU - THE ONE- ARE YOU THE ONE & ONLY -LOL- DOUG

 

[CaveDog]

Do you happen to know if there is another state where perhaps the opposite has happened.....a state that has moved in the direction of liberty as opposed to moving away from it?

It depends. On issues like concealed carry a lot more states allow it than used to so in some arenas liberty has gained while in others it has lost. I couldn't say I'm aware of any states that have moved in the direction of liberty in a general sense. The free state project was supposed to bring something like 20,000 activists to NH to try and achieve that change in one state, but compared to the number of pledges to move the actual numbers that have come here so far are relatively small. The FSP is very active and do a lot of good here, but like I said, they're outnumbered badly.

It's hard to say which way things are moving but the current strategy of the democratic national committee is to win the state houses of all 50 states and effect change on the local level in every state rather than using the federal government, so I can't say I'm especially optimistic. Then again, it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

The 50 state strategy was the brainchild of Howard Dean and like Ron Paul, Dean rose to prominence on the back of a big internet movement that remains a powerful coalition with major influence in the democrat party. Dean is now the chairman of the DNC as a result. If you examine the democrats close up, all the major candidates they're running in '08 reflect the will of the Dean movement. Win or lose with RP, Dean proved that a dedicated movement that grew around a presidential campaign can go on to have a dramatic effect in American politics, so if the RP revolution remains a viable movement after the election there's more hope for positive change than I've seen in 20 years. But first things first, RP is still in the race and that's the current focus but looking ahead things aren't neccissarily all that bleak regardless of the presidential race.