Net Impact Of Delegate Push: Helpful Or Harmful?

[klamath]

The actions of some RP supporters maybe hurting the movement in the short term but in the long term the noise of the movement is a good thing.
Most conservative Republicans are choking back their distaste of McCain and supporting the party leader. If that left leaning party leader takes them down too defeat this fall there will be so much recrimination and soul searching on what went wrong the neocons will be hiding under any rock they can find. Everyone will be asking how the Republican party lost both the whitehouse and the congress.
I look back and think how I supported Bush over Buccanan because I thought Bush could win and Bucannan could not. Well Bush won alright but it is me that has buyers remorse. Even though I vilified Bucannan at the time because of his pitchhfork speach that I though was too communistic sounding I really really wish I had voted Bucannan even with his over isolationist ideas.

 

[Sally08]

And your interpretation is based on what, exactly?

Your interpretation of Ron Paul's request is blatantly wrong.

Does that mean that the questions I asked about what "all" means that you *didn't answer* are blatantly *right*?

If RP says what he means and means what he says, then why are "interpretation" and "parsing" needed?

Who determines which "interpretation" RP meant when the videos were totally planned? Dan McCarthy? Raul Paul?

There seem to be a lot of "psychic supporters" these days.

 

[pepperpete1]

Still waiting for answers.....

Still waiting.

I ran for national delegate to the convention, but was not elected. Chalk it up to ignorance of the rules. (Not any longer)
Mitt Romney dropping out of the race allowed us to vote for 19 "uncommitted" delegates.
But let's say that I was elected as a McCain delegate. I would abstain.......legal to do.
Would not defy the state's rules as then my vote would not count. No point in doing so.

Now I have some questions for you.
Please answer.

1. Are you a national delegate for your state?

2. Have you even run as a delegate?

3. How about a precinct captain for the campaign?

4. Have you been out in the public trying to ethically educate them as to what the situation is with their current government?

5. Are you personally reminding people that Dr. Ron Paul is still a candidate?

Whether there is blowback from RP getting the GOP nomination or not is irrelevant. If there is we deal with it. Like we have dealt with the GOP's out and out breaking of party rules and state statutes.
We are following the rules and "game plan" of the RNC, and each individual state.
Definitely NOT like the LAGOP who's chairman took it upon himself to extend the qualifying deadline. Did not put out the call to the primary as dictated by the RNC rules, put names of persons as delegates on McCain's slate without their permission, and then at the convention even admitted they broke the rules and it is placed on the record.

Keep on fishing.

 

[Sally08]

And what are the "unforeseen consequences" of your scenario?

The actions of some RP supporters maybe hurting the movement in the short term but in the long term the noise of the movement is a good thing.
Most conservative Republicans are choking back their distaste of McCain and supporting the party leader. If that left leaning party leader takes them down too defeat this fall there will be so much recrimination and soul searching on what went wrong the neocons will be hiding under any rock they can find. Everyone will be asking how the Republican party lost both the whitehouse and the congress.
I look back and think how I supported Bush over Buccanan because I thought Bush could win and Bucannan could not. Well Bush won alright but it is me that has buyers remorse. Even though I vilified Bucannan at the time because of his pitchhfork speach that I though was too communistic sounding I really really wish I had voted Bucannan even with his over isolationist ideas.

Let's say I agree with everything you say (I bet the Dems are laughing about this destruction of the GOP *from within*).

What would a landslide victory for the Democrats do? What will happen in the next 4 years with no checks and balances (again, assuming that there isn't a national crisis with martial law implemented *before* the election)?

And, again, given the delegate issues in both parties, d'ya think the rules might change, so that we have even *less* freedoms?

Question: Is that what RP has worked so hard for decades and on the campaign trail this election cycle, to have supporters in *his* name destroy his reputation *and* the GOP for the history books?

Do you think that "the actions of some RP supporters" (those who are routinely highlighted by the MSM media) might harm RP's reelection for Congress and/or his ability as Congressman to get *anything* accomplished?

 

[Ninja Homer]

Does that mean that the questions I asked about what "all" means that you *didn't answer* are blatantly *right*?

If RP says what he means and means what he says, then why are "interpretation" and "parsing" needed?

Who determines which "interpretation" RP meant when the videos were totally planned? Dan McCarthy? Raul Paul?

There seem to be a lot of "psychic supporters" these days.

Redirect much?

How exactly do you come to the conclusion that:

"We do still encourage all effort to gain the maximum number of votes and delegates in all the remaining primaries and to continue the caucus process that's ongoing in the other states by loyal volunteers."

Equals:

"RP's request was for his supporters to become involved within the GOP organization, to do the necessary footwork to become respected elected officials at the local precinct/county/state levels as the prerequisite preparation to become national officials in the future."

 

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

Sally08,

Even if Ron Paul people get to St. Paul as "McCain delegates", isn't it worth it to have influence on platform debate?

Look, 25-50% of the grassroots of the GOP cannot stand McCain. The party IS killing itself from within.

McCain garnering less than 40% of the popular vote, and losing almost every state would cause the GOP to seek a new way. He is no better than the two socialists on the Dem side.

 

[acptulsa]

Let's say I agree with everything you say (I bet the Dems are laughing about this destruction of the GOP *from within*).

What would a landslide victory for the Democrats do? What will happen in the next 4 years with no checks and balances (again, assuming that there isn't a national crisis with martial law implemented *before* the election)?

And, again, given the delegate issues in both parties, d'ya think the rules might change, so that we have even *less* freedoms?

Question: Is that what RP has worked so hard for decades and on the campaign trail this election cycle, to have supporters in *his* name destroy his reputation *and* the GOP for the history books?

Do you think that "the actions of some RP supporters" (those who are routinely highlighted by the MSM media) might harm RP's reelection for Congress and/or his ability as Congressman to get *anything* accomplished?

What has happened in the last two years with no checks and balances? Will the Democrats be worse?

Since when have the Democrats been harder on our civil liberties than the neocons? Haven't they slightly ameliorated the effects of the PATRIOT Act?

Seems to me Dr. Paul's reputation is confirmed. We aren't doing anything to the G.O.P.'s reputation but letting people know that a few of it's members care about something besides their fat wallets? Unless we accomplish more than we have, we won't rate a footnote in the history books, while Dubya will have chapters written about the damage done...

Can Dr. Paul get anything done in Congress now? How often has the House vote been 413-1, 425-1 and etc?

As long as Ron Paul is considered the laughable Dr. No because he won't jump on the gravy train and eat his lobbyist-supplied lobster standing up with the rest of the Congress, he is a standout of his own free will and that's why we're here. And the worse things get, the more of us there will be. We don't call ourselves a revolution for nothing!

If you're going to have an omelet, you have to break a few eggs. And the more rotten eggs we break, the more I like it.

 

[LibertyIn08]

Yes, it because of random post on forums.

This attitude expressed is not confined to the forums.

There is a difference between being excited and between being negatively disruptive. We can make an impact without alienating everyone else in the party simply due to our behaviour.

 

[acptulsa]

I guess it comes down to how you answer two questions:

Is McCain any improvement at all in any way over the Democrats with whom he works so closely?

Is it more important to "play ball" with the G.O.P. or to rock the boat and help change its direction before we get any more Dubyas?

From those two attitudes comes the key to whether you'll think our pusuit of delegates is good or bad.

 

[Aratus]

please,please think it thru... jeb bush in 2012...

anything done today, this day... impacts 2012!

 

[LibertyIn08]

I guess it comes down to how you answer two questions:

Is McCain any improvement at all in any way over the Democrats with whom he works so closely?

Is it more important to "play ball" with the G.O.P. or to rock the boat and help change its direction before we get any more Dubyas?

From those two attitudes comes the key to whether you'll think our pusuit of delegates is good or bad.

I'm talking more about people insulting other members of the GOP with incendiary language, not so much our method of delegate allocation.

 

[Broadlighter]

Sally,

How do you make nice with someone who ardently believes that lying and cheating to maintain status quo is justifiable? Did you not read or hear Ron Paul's address to Congress about Neo-Conservatism?

Here it is: http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=630

This fight is between those who want liberty and honesty in government and those who don't. The hearts and minds we are trying to win over are neither us nor the enemy, they are those who are loyal to the GOP, who don't have all of the facts and haven't the time or inclination to delve deeply into them.

The longer we stay in this fight, the more we expose the corruption the Neo-cons seem to embrace as standard operating procedure.

And Ron Paul has said many times, that this Revolution is not about him, it's about us. Let the fight happen and the chips fall where they may.

 

[Sally08]

Do you see any logical conflict in your post?

How do you make nice with someone who ardently believes that lying and cheating to maintain status quo is justifiable?

This fight is between those who want liberty and honesty in government and those who don't..

Either you actually support my concerns about "lying and cheating" not being "a good way" to promote "honesty in government" or you are part of the group of "RP Supporters in Name Only" that is no *different* than the status quo!

Is that what this "movement" has come down to?

How can I trust what *any* "Ron Paul Republican" says now? Which "kind" of "Ron Paul Delegate" did I vote for in my primary?

Can you see how serious a problem has developed, if I have respected Ron Paul for the past 8+ years, but now no longer trust his followers?

 

[belian78]

Either you actually support my concerns about "lying and cheating" not being "a good way" to promote "honesty in government" or you are part of the group of "RP Supporters in Name Only" that is no *different* than the status quo!

Is that what this "movement" has come down to?

How can I trust what *any* "Ron Paul Republican" says now? Which "kind" of "Ron Paul Delegate" did I vote for in my primary?

Can you see how serious a problem has developed, if I have respected Ron Paul for the past 8+ years, but now no longer trust his followers?

what!?

lady, either your a troll, or your delusional.

is the whole crux of this rant about you thinking that RP delegates lie and cheat? if so, you couldnt be farther from the truth.

 

[LibertyIn08]

what!?

lady, either your a troll, or your delusional.

is the whole crux of this rant about you thinking that RP delegates lie and cheat? if so, you couldnt be farther from the truth.

I believe she's more worried about the ones that do, rather than all of them doing said actions.

Although I do believe she is painting with a rather wide brush...

 

[dannno]

OP, this is a necessary fight. The media will paint all of our actions as childish or otherwise, whatever they can get away with and you will not like it. Learn to live with it. The media is part of this fight, too.

According to what I've seen, everything in NV was fair and we were playing by the rules. The situation was painted differently by the media and by the leaders of the GOP because they are our enemies.

 

[crazyfacedjenkins]

I don't know what fantasy land the OP lives in, but nobody even knows who the fuck Ron Paul is. If our delegates get to the national convention and get him nominated, whether it be through abiding by the rules or making new rules as they go, most of America won't even know what happened or give a shit. Win-Win as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Broadlighter]

Either you actually support my concerns about "lying and cheating" not being "a good way" to promote "honesty in government" or you are part of the group of "RP Supporters in Name Only" that is no *different* than the status quo!

Is that what this "movement" has come down to?

How can I trust what *any* "Ron Paul Republican" says now? Which "kind" of "Ron Paul Delegate" did I vote for in my primary?

Can you see how serious a problem has developed, if I have respected Ron Paul for the past 8+ years, but now no longer trust his followers?

Sally, your thoughts make me think you are suffering somewhat from Stockholm Syndrome. By trying to make nice with the Neo-Cons for the sake of being civil, you enable their continual psychotic behavior. The Neo-Cons have made it clear that they will not treat Ron Paul Republicans with any degree of civility. Their ideology doesn't value honesty and integrity. They value raw power and they command obedience to their imperialism.

There comes a point when those holding the power strings ignore the rules they had once agreed to in order to maintain their position. They have, by defintion, become outlaws.

This is a fight and there's goiing to be a few bloody noses. Get used to it. Victory is not going to come to those who win the battles. It will come to those who are still willing to fight even after the worst of defeats.

 

[Broadlighter]

One more point, Sally, our fight is not against Republicans or Republican voters. Our fight is with the Council on Foreign Relations. It's about individualism versus collectivism, liberty versus tyranny.

No matter what it looks like to you on the surface, this is what is really going on.

Tyrants don't give up power, you have to take it away from them.

 

[MMolloy]

Agent Provocateur?

Let me get this straight-

Does RP's "all" include:

1. Lying (answering as a McCain supporter)
2. Cheating
3. Stealing (as in vote fraud?)
4. Breaking/defying the rules under which you were elected at the RNC
5. Making "back room deals"
6. Paying bribes for votes
7. Negative campaigning using RP's name

I don't think so.

Sounds like Clinton's "is" to me.

And RP's (public posting) supporters are different than the "status quo" how, exactly?

Yet another post indicating that RP's "umbrella" includes many unethical people, which is now causing problems for the ethical supporters, particularly when posts on both RPF and DP have been quoted as *sources* for articles in the past day or two.

Take a look at the "impressive" public posts on the thread (note that views are over 3500 with 165 posts) referenced:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=132901

Talk about "aiding the enemy"-

Wow... I've heard way more badmouthing of RP supporters from Sally in this post then I've heard from all the people I know PERSONALLY combined. It seems to me that you're the only one suggesting that we use these tactics because

Any bets we're at war before the election, martial law will be implemented, and there won't be any election at all, so Bush can stay in power as dictator supreme?

Maybe all of these delegate issues in both parties are meant to be the *distraction* from what is actually going on behind the scenes?

OR maybe YOU'RE the "DISTRACTION"


I will be in MN as an Alternate Delegate from PA.
I have had my Ron Paul button on wherever I go for over 6 months now... so everyone knows where I'm coming from. I haven't been in stealth mode.

Amen to the proceeding two posts... KEEP FIGHTING