My take on Trump after Ron Paul 2012.

[dannno]

i was younger and yea I hoped Ron Paul could upset the powers that be.

See this New York Times article as to why Trump is running. Remove the tin foil. Trump never run to stop Rand. The article is quite good. It gives details on the relationship between Trump and Romney.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/us/politics/donald-trump-campaign.html

First of all, I said "we had at least one and maybe even two candidates to had been prepped for years and were put on the ticket, imo, for the sole purpose of keeping Rand Paul from getting the nomination (Cruz and Trump).

The "one" was Cruz and the "maybe even two" is Trump.

Have you ever seen "House of Cards" ?

You have no idea if what is in that article is valid, or a script for a play that was written just for you. Neither do I, but at least I'm admitting that.

Just so you know, I'm in the Stefan Molyneux thread right now defending Stefan for his pro-Trump videos. I don't know what is behind the Trump phenomenon, and I'm not going to pretend to know until the more facts come out. At the moment, I cannot tell you that Trump is pro or anti-establishment - there are good arguments on both sides and neither are definitive.

Before you go full-retard for Trump just consider what else might be going on. There are valid reasons to support him, but it could all just be showmanship.

 

[nikcers]

i was younger and yea I hoped Ron Paul could upset the powers that be.

See this New York Times article as to why Trump is running. Remove the tin foil. Trump never run to stop Rand. The article is quite good. It gives details on the relationship between Trump and Romney.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/us/politics/donald-trump-campaign.html

This article is quite good and it explains the relationship of the Pauls and Trump.

Trump: Huntsman and Paul are 'joke candidates'

The mogul said if the right GOP nominee doesn't emerge, he'll jump in as an independent

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45551...ntsman-paul-are-joke-candidates/#.Tt0BvFtNquO

If “the wrong candidate is nominated to run” and “it’s a candidate that’s not going to win and not very good,’’ Trump said he would “certainly think about running as an independent.’’ Despite dalliances with a possible presidential bid in the past, Trump said he has never seriously considered it until this year

 

[Ender]

Ya see this is exactly what I'm talking about. Rand tried to appeal to the establishment and the media, while also attempting to retain his father's support so he could win. You dropped your support for Rand due to his strategy, not his beliefs. You confused the two. Rand thought his father's supporters were smart enough to know the difference, but unfortunately that didn't work out too well. Rand has an infinitely better foreign policy than Donald Trump, and here you are saying how great Donald Trump's foreign policy is.. It's just absolutely nuts.

Trump, on the other hand, used a different tactic. He used his popularity as a tv star to descredit and tear apart the media and the establishment, even though we don't even know if he is actually anti-establishment - in the mean time Rand was trying to get along with the media and the establishment, which were dying out and Trump came in with some death blows and mucked up Rand's strategy.

The problem is Rand actually believes in freedom, and we have no idea what Donald Trump believes in.

And you still can't see that you got completely fooled by the establishment.

AMEN.

That's exactly how I see it. Rand tried to play the game a bit smarter and was dumped by the RP supporters- most of who complained that Ron just hadn't played the game right- Boo. Hoo.

 

[Mordan]

Before you go full-retard for Trump just consider what else might be going on. There are valid reasons to support him, but it could all just be showmanship.

I'm not full retard on Trump and never will. It is intuitive. When NeoCons and Democrats and the media attack someone like they attacked Ron Paul. That guy must be doing something right! I agree with you on Cruz though. He stole Rand Paul voters on his lane.

 

[dannno]

Rand accepted Bitcoin as donations. That's all I remember about him that stuck.

lol.. whose fault is that???

How about the fact that when he was 17, he stepped in for his father and debated his congressional opponent and won? How about the fact that his father endorses Rand as a liberty candidate?? Do you even care about liberty? Peaceful foreign policy?? If so, then Rand is your candidate, not Trump..

Trump? He wants to deport illegal immigrants. Hello!! We have a winner.!!! That's the single one reason why Trump succeeded. Trump said it in a way that stuck in the minds of voters. Trump won Florida. He didn't spend a dime and Romney and his friends spent millions in attack ads. There you have Trump's anti establishment credentials.

And when most people think of deporting illegal immigrants, they think of the Holocaust, Japanese internment and worse - massive violence, race wars, etc.. For good reason. The round-up of all these illegal immigrants will infringe on the rights of white people - they will infringe on the rights of legal immigrants - they will infringe on the rights of illegal immigrants.

I understand the anti-immigrant sentiment - immigration has been a government program for decades. They bring them in, they give them welfare - double the amount of illegal immigrants on welfare as citizens. They get all sorts of free things they don't pay for and then they send the money they do make out of the country. Then they vote for socialist politicians who will give them more money!! But individually they are also families and actual people.

I'm totally 100% ok with removing all the government programs that fund and promote illegal immigration. I'm ok with putting a moratorium on immigration, I'm ok with removing illegal immigrants who have committed violent crimes.

But to round them all up and send them all back just sounds completely insane to most people.

 

[Mordan]

But to round them all up and send them all back just sounds completely insane to most people.

Art of the Deal.

Thx to this outrageous statement we are talking about fixing illegal immigration. Otherwise nothing. Look what Rubio did. Voters gave him PAY BACK!

 

[CPUd]

First off, thx for reopening my thread. I was baffled. If I was a new account, I would have understood but this is a 2008 account!

Many here might not like it, but fact is, Trump is liked by many. And when I keep reading the media insulting Trump supporters saying they are uneducated. I feel bad. I felt bad when replies here just jumped on conclusions.

What I said about not caring about policies might have been misunderstood. I do care about policies but I have become a single issue voter. And I want the people that made Ron Paul suffer LOSE. I see Trump as Karma to the GOP establishment. However bad some Trump ideas are, he has some good points and he has qualities.

When you see Romney pulling all the stops to prevent Trump from being nominated I can't stop but wanting Trump even more. Romney is the establishment hack who boxed Ron Paul. Therefore Trump must be doing something worth it. It is not rational. It is intuitive.
Ron Paul is a purist and will never vote for Trump of course.

This thread is not about promoting Trump for the sake of it. I'm a former RP supporter and wanted to have some insights about what others think. I was rooting for Rand Paul a bit but he became too establishment and left early. Its strange how Trump supporters quickly receive blame or insults everywhere they go. I remember being called a PaulBot on Hannity forums and was banned quickly.

Trump spends a lot of time telling people how much he is liked, how many people show up to his rallies, how many twitter followers he has, how rich he is, etc. Dig into those and you will find they are all gross exaggerations. The truth is, as a presidential candidate, he is only going after 1 demographic:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?493636-Donald-Trump-has-a-teeny-tiny-base

Nowhere near enough to win a general election, and probably not enough to win a primary nomination. The reason he does well with the uneducated is because even in the shitty public education system, most people get exposed to enough history and political science to recognize Trump is following a model that has been attempted in the past to some limited success.

Trump also attracts the socially disconnected. You can see this in the Trump supporters online- a lot of them are 100% negative in their postings, and tend to lash out because they feel like they are under constant attack.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...rs-with-multiple-Republican-social-identities

Of all the reasons why the promotion of Trump's candidacy on a liberty board (as noted by Bryan) is not a good thing for liberty, most alarming is the idea of building up a massive police state to aggressively hunt down illegal immigrants, deport them, then let them rapidly come back in.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...quot-does-not-equal-quot-Wait-their-turn-quot

 

[nikcers]

I'm not full retard on Trump and never will. It is intuitive. When NeoCons and Democrats and the media attack someone like they attacked Ron Paul. That guy must be doing something right! I agree with you on Cruz though. He stole Rand Paul voters on his lane.

But Donald was parroting the neocon talking points in 2011 attacking Ron Paul, and then he supported Mitt Romney.

 

[jmdrake]

Hello,


I was with Ron Paul since 2008 and 2012. I loved him and lost friendships because of him. He was great but lacked what Trump has.

In our world, you cannot succeed without it unless you have the establishment machine behind you. When I first heard Trump was running I didn't pay attention remembering Trump antics when Ron Paul was running. I couldn't bother with any republicans. Rand Paul doesn't have what I identified as needed after 2008 and 2012.

So when in September 2015 I first heard and saw Trump talking to the media, punching back. I couldn't help think if only Ron Paul had that mojo, that saviness in talking. This high energy. Trump doesn't talk to the political junkie that practice intellectual onanism. He talks to absolutely everyone.
Ron Paul would always go off in a tangent, he would get boxed by reporters. It was always painful to watch.

Trump uncovers the corruption in the system and forces everyone to look at it, just like Sanders does. Trump doesn't know about delegate rules but those rules are what powers corruption!!! Remember how Ron Paul got boxed in 2012?

I don't even care about Trump policies except that he is a non-interventionist and anti illegal immigration. So I'm surprised Ron Paul supporters don't like him that much.

Just my 2 cents after 4 years.

Hello. Sorry that you've been fooled into believing that Donald Trump is a non-interventionist. I was fooled too. Here's the truth.

1) Donald Trump lied when he claimed to have been against the Iraq war from the beginning. The truth is that Trump called for the invasion of Iraq in 2002 and even in 2000 (before 9/11).


http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/02/15/donald-trump-in-2000-wmds-in-iraq/

2) Donald Trump called for U.S. troops to be sent into Libya to overthrow Khaddafi. That makes him more of an interventionist than even Obama.



3) Donald Trump called Hillary Clinton "The best secretary of state" even after Benghazi.



In short, Donald Trump is a snake oil salesman. He's not even against illegal immigration. He wants to deport all of the illegals then bring the "good ones" back "rapidly" through a "big beautiful door" in the wall that he's going to build and Mexico is going to pay for. He hired illegal immigrants to work for him. His ties are made in China. He's a big phony. Some of us see through him. Others refuse to see. Still others are fine with him being a phony because all they want is a GOP candidate that sucks so bad that the libertarian candidate might get 5% of the popular vote in the general election.

http://therightscoop.com/trump-all-...from-but-the-good-ones-can-come-back-legally/

 

[Ender]

lol.. whose fault is that???

How about the fact that when he was 17, he stepped in for his father and debated his congressional opponent and won? How about the fact that his father endorses Rand as a liberty candidate?? Do you even care about liberty? Peaceful foreign policy?? If so, then Rand is your candidate, not Trump..




And when most people think of deporting illegal immigrants, they think of the Holocaust, Japanese internment and worse - massive violence, race wars, etc.. For good reason. The round-up of all these illegal immigrants will infringe on the rights of white people - they will infringe on the rights of legal immigrants - they will infringe on the rights of illegal immigrants.

I understand the anti-immigrant sentiment - immigration has been a government program for decades. They bring them in, they give them welfare - double the amount of illegal immigrants on welfare as citizens. They get all sorts of free things they don't pay for and then they send the money they do make out of the country. Then they vote for socialist politicians who will give them more money!! But individually they are also families and actual people.

I'm totally 100% ok with removing all the government programs that fund and promote illegal immigration. I'm ok with putting a moratorium on immigration, I'm ok with removing illegal immigrants who have committed violent crimes.

But to round them all up and send them all back just sounds completely insane to most people.

Preach it, Bro!

 

[Ender]

Art of the Deal.

Thx to this outrageous statement we are talking about fixing illegal immigration. Otherwise nothing. Look what Rubio did. Voters gave him PAY BACK!

The only thing that needs to be fixed is to remove entitlements and get the gov out of private lives.

 

[Ender]

Hello. Sorry that you've been fooled into believing that Donald Trump is a non-interventionist. I was fooled too. Here's the truth.

1) Donald Trump lied when he claimed to have been against the Iraq war from the beginning. The truth is that Trump called for the invasion of Iraq in 2002 and even in 2000 (before 9/11).

2) Donald Trump called for U.S. troops to be sent into Libya to overthrow Khaddafi. That makes him more of an interventionist than even Obama.

3) Donald Trump called Hillary Clinton "The best secretary of state" even after Benghazi.

In short, Donald Trump is a snake oil salesman. He's not even against illegal immigration. He wants to deport all of the illegals then bring the "good ones" back "rapidly" through a "big beautiful door" in the wall that he's going to build and Mexico is going to pay for. He hired illegal immigrants to work for him. His ties are made in China. He's a big phony. Some of us see through him. Others refuse to see. Still others are fine with him being a phony because all they want is a GOP candidate that sucks so bad that the libertarian candidate might get 5% of the popular vote in the general election.

Don't give snake oil a bad name.

TRUTH: snake oil was very valuable in healing people until the gov stepped in and started the bad publicity. Now we think it's evil- makes me wonder how many lies the American people have bought into.

 

[CPUd]

I'm not full retard on Trump and never will. It is intuitive. When NeoCons and Democrats and the media attack someone like they attacked Ron Paul. That guy must be doing something right! I agree with you on Cruz though. He stole Rand Paul voters on his lane.

Pay more attention to exactly who is attacking him, more importantly, who is promoting him. There are multiple "factions" going after him, they do not necessarily have the same reasons. Sean Hannity is on the Trump Train, and this is the guy who said previously he would support the most conservative candidate in the race. Rush Limbaugh is on the Trump Train- these 2 alone speak to almost the entire GOP base on a daily basis. There would have been several more jump on a few weeks ago, until the runup to the Wisconsin primary, which brings up another important point- many of those on the GOP "team" in the press who attack Trump do it because of stupid things he has said, like punishing women for abortion, nukes for Japan, S Korea, nuking Europe if necessary, etc.

 

[erowe1]

I don't even care about Trump policies except that he is a non-interventionist and anti illegal immigration. So I'm surprised Ron Paul supporters don't like him that much.

He's not a noninterventionist, or anything close to it. If he was, why do you think he was so anti-Ron Paul? He supported the Iraq War, until it turned out badly, and then in hindsight he decided to be against it. I'm not sure why you mention illegal immigration, given that Trump's views on that are so antithetical to liberty, to say nothing of all the other big-government, socialist policies that you don't mention and claim don't matter to you.

 

[jmdrake]

Don't give snake oil a bad name.

TRUTH: snake oil was very valuable in healing people until the gov stepped in and started the bad publicity. Now we think it's evil- makes me wonder how many lies the American people have bought into.

*sigh* Let's hope Donald Trump doesn't do that for non-interventionism, libertarianism and being anti-establishment.

 

[kahless]

I can't believe how many people got hoodwinked into not supporting Ron Paul's own son, who Ron Paul himself fully supported..

You are making the argument that, "In our world, you cannot succeed without it unless you have the establishment machine behind you." .... Well... WTF did you think Rand was trying to do?? If Ron Paul's supporters hadn't all abandoned Rand, we wouldn't be sitting here deciding whether or not we should support some authoritarian-lite just because he might be anti-establishment.. we would have a true freedom fighter in our corner, someone with a much better foreign policy than Trump.

Many of us did get behind Rand. The problem was with the strategy of cozying up to the Republican establishment and catering to the left (groups that would for the most part never vote for him), rather than his base, independents and the average folks.

His tax platform and attacking Trump only helped solidify the perception by many that Rand is one of them - the establishment. This was at a time Republicans were extremely angry looking for an anti-establishment candidate where clearly the Rand of 2016 was not strategically playing that role. If we got the earlier Rand prior to the 2016 race his performance in the primary may have been different.

 

[Mordan]

He's not a noninterventionist, or anything close to it. If he was, why do you think he was so anti-Ron Paul? He supported the Iraq War, until it turned out badly, and then in hindsight he decided to be against it. I'm not sure why you mention illegal immigration, given that Trump's views on that are so antithetical to liberty, to say nothing of all the other big-government, socialist policies that you don't mention and claim don't matter to you.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/20...ized-debate-about-us-leadership-in-the-world/

He didn't support the Iraq War. He said "I guess so" and every anti trump are basking in glee. Having the guts to call the Iraq War a mistake in the SC debate was his stance. He had balls to do it. Respect. He destroyed Bush.

Same bombshell as with the Blowback Ron Paul moment. Rand Paul didn't drop any bomb. He was mostly transparent.

 

[kahless]

Hmmm...... my POV is quite the opposite.

"There just happens to be a small loud contingent of Trump lover spammers here.

And I seldom engage in the Trump dialog.

I can remember a few months back seeing a few days where it was like that. However anyone that comes here daily can see the overall majority of new threads are anti-Trump including think tank talking points repeated verbatim. Considering the volume of posts and the verbatim think tank anti-Trump talking points I believe some of it is PAC money for social media.

Probably a full time hire, posting here along with many other forums, disqus sites, Facebook, twitter, etc.

 

[erowe1]

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/20...ized-debate-about-us-leadership-in-the-world/

He didn't support the Iraq War. He said "I guess so" and every anti trump are basking in glee. Having the guts to call the Iraq War a mistake in the SC debate was his stance. He had balls to do it. Respect. He destroyed Bush.

Same bombshell as with the Blowback Ron Paul moment. Rand Paul didn't drop any bomb. He was mostly transparent.

He blatantly did support the Iraq war in 2002 when it counted. And he would support it again if the same thing happened during his presidency. It's nothing like what Ron Paul did in 2008, because then it was still an unpopular position in the GOP. We can thank Ron Paul for changing that. It took no guts for Trump now after the fact to say that he would have done things differently, and we wouldn't have gotten into a war that turned out bad, when in fact, we know he wouldn't have.

 

[Ender]

I can remember a few months back seeing a few days where it was like that. However anyone that comes here daily can see the overall majority of new threads are anti-Trump including think tank talking points repeated verbatim. Considering the volume of posts and the verbatim think tank anti-Trump talking points I believe some of it is PAC money for social media.

Probably a full time hire, posting here along with many other forums, disqus sites, Facebook, twitter, etc.

Most everyone who is anti-Trump has been here for years. Trump supporters that no one has ever seen on the forum or who joined 5 years ago & only have like 400 posts or less, are popping up every day.

Can't imagine a RP forum supporting Trump. Trump supporters here started long before Rand was out of the race- so who would seem to have the profile of spamming? Supporters would be my guess.