My Economic Plan

[Travlyr]

Why keep the FCC? Why keep minimum wage laws? Why keep entitlements?

Tom?

 

[runamuck]

The OP does understand that. I have heard Ron Paul say many times that you can't just "pull the rug out." That is my position as well. Where did you get the idea that I didn't understand that?

Sorry - that wasn't what I meant. It sounded like you're a new supporter of Ron and the impression you were getting from some of the feedback on this forum was that Ron's position was to just cut all welfare spending on day 1.

I just wanted to make sure you knew his position.

 

[ShaneEnochs]

Ending all transfer payment programs would create that environment, and very quickly. No one is going to starve. No one is even close to starving in the USA. Outside of a very very few homeless people, no one in the USA even understands what starvation is. Do you have any idea how long it would take for your family to starve to death? A long time, let me tell you. If you suddenly had no food stamps, I have every confidence that you are ingenuitive, scrappy, and determined to survive, and that furthermore you are a decent person who has not burned every bridge you ever had via atrocious behavior and thus you have many friends and family willing to help you out. Your family is in no danger of death without food stamps.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't believe ending entitlements is going to get jobs to start hiring. I do agree that it needs reform, but right now may not be the best time to start that.

I've personally seen two people die in my city from being homeless in the past four years, whether it be from starving or no protection from the elements/no medical care, I'm not sure. No one is going to hire a homeless person. It's a fact of life. If I lost my food stamps, yes, I would lose my home, and no, I would not have anywhere to go. My parents are those religious fundamentalists that wouldn't allow my family to move in simply because we are not married. In their eyes, my family being homeless would be our punishment for living together. It's fucked up, but that's how it is.

 

[Travlyr]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't believe ending entitlements is going to get jobs to start hiring. I do agree that it needs reform, but right now may not be the best time to start that.

I've personally seen two people die in my city from being homeless in the past four years, whether it be from starving or no protection from the elements/no medical care, I'm not sure. No one is going to hire a homeless person. It's a fact of life. If I lost my food stamps, yes, I would lose my home, and no, I would not have anywhere to go. My parents are those religious fundamentalists that wouldn't allow my family to move in simply because we are not married. In their eyes, my family being homeless would be our punishment for living together. It's fucked up, but that's how it is.

You are right. The jobs are not coming back. The entitlements are ending unless Ron Paul is elected. The homelessness will accelerate. The government statistics will not reflect this. The media will not report it. It is happening in front of our eyes. Ron Paul has the right plan. No one else is putting it forth.

 

[TomL]

Originally Posted by Travlyr
Why keep the FCC? Why keep minimum wage laws? Why keep entitlements?

Tom?

The FCC overseas broadcast treaties with other nations. Nations have "clear channels" U.S. clear channels on AM are the 10s. 610, 710, 810, 910, 1010, 1110,.... Canadian clear channels are the 40s. 540, 640, 740, 840, 940,..... Mexican clear channels are the 30s. 530, 630, 730,.... Having treaties with other nations is a legitimate Constitutional function of the Federal government. FCC rules and regulations are to uphold those treaties. That is their main function.

I have no idea why we have to have a minimum wage.

Have you read my quoted article on entitlements?

 

[TomL]

Sorry - that wasn't what I meant. It sounded like you're a new supporter of Ron and the impression you were getting from some of the feedback on this forum was that Ron's position was to just cut all welfare spending on day 1.

I just wanted to make sure you knew his position.

I am not a new supporter. I just recent removed the 2008 bumper sticker in anticipation of a 2012 sticker. I know Ron's positions very well. I am just concerned that others that might stumble on this site and get the wrong idea about as you thought I did.

Anyway, thanks for your concern.

 

[Travlyr]

I did read your take on entitlements, yet the entitlement system impoverishes people. The last two years in a row seniors have been denied their COLA adjustments and this year they can expect less than 4% increase while true inflation is closer to 10%/year. Seniors are losing the entitlement game fast as it is. There is something to be said to wean people off of entitlements, but if Ron Paul doesn't get elected, then those entitlements will go away as the dollar self-destructs just like the jobs have gone away already.

 

[Steven Douglas]

• I did read your take on entitlements, yet the entitlement system impoverishes people. The last two years in a row seniors have been denied their COLA adjustments and this year they can expect less than 4% increase while true inflation is closer to 10%/year. Seniors are losing the entitlement game fast as it is. There is something to be said to wean people off of entitlements, but if Ron Paul doesn't get elected, then those entitlements will go away as the dollar self-destructs just like the jobs have gone away already.

^^ This.

Wait until the market picks up again and the debt machine finally gets cranked back up and starts belching out all those pent up bailout reserves. Nothing slashes entitlements like a frog in a blender like spiraling inflation.

 

[Travlyr]

^^ This.

Wait until the market picks up again and the debt machine finally gets cranked back up and starts belching out all those pent up bailout reserves. Nothing slashes entitlements like a frog in a blender like spiraling inflation.

That's right. Inflation like we've never seen before. And Ron Paul has a plan that will work for the transition. Nobody else is offering to keep seniors and the indigent fed, warm, and dry through the process. If Ron Paul doesn't win in 2012, then the warmongers in charge will spend the money on bombs, drones, and pad their own pockets while low income and fixed income earners will be left to fend for themselves.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't believe ending entitlements is going to get jobs to start hiring. I do agree that it needs reform, but right now may not be the best time to start that.

As Travlyr and Ron Paul have explained: the entitlements *are* going to end. So would you rather it end quietly, in an orderly manner, with 60 days notice, or in a situation of collapse, chaos, and maybe even hyperinflation? 60 days is a long time. It's reasonable notice, it's plenty of time to get affairs in order and prepare for a financial setback.

I've personally seen two people die in my city from being homeless in the past four years, whether it be from starving or no protection from the elements/no medical care, I'm not sure.

As I said, homeless people are the only ones who do know what starvation is, and do die from starvation (and/or malnutrition, and only very occasionally... at least for now), but it's only a small subset of homeless people even then. People in the USA are homeless because of specific lifestyle choices they have made, usually involving substance abuse, and sometimes so bizarre and self-destructive we would classify the choices as mental illness. It's not that they just can't afford housing or something. No way. At least not currently. If we keep going down the socialist path, then the economy will deteriorate and eventually things will get so bad that this could change.

No one is going to hire a homeless person. It's a fact of life. If I lost my food stamps, yes, I would lose my home, and no, I would not have anywhere to go. My parents are those religious fundamentalists that wouldn't allow my family to move in simply because we are not married. In their eyes, my family being homeless would be our punishment for living together.

You would not be homeless, not like a real homeless person like we think of and like I discussed above. I am confident that you are not a horrible person who has burned all his bridges, as I said. If it came down to it, your parents may well let you move in. If it came down to it, for that matter, you may very well get married, if it's a choice between marriage and desperate circumstances. But beyond your parents, if you are a decent person the world is filled with friends and family for you who are not willing to see you out on the street and certainly will not permit your starving to death. Even truly horrible people often have someone who likes them enough to let them crash on their couch.

Also, what you say is a fact of life is not a fact of life. There's no reason your employer need know you're homeless. Shower and laundry facilities are all over the place and can be utilized for cheap or free. I've gotten a job while homeless. Multiple times, in fact.

 

[Revolution9]

Is that the best you can do? Have any specifics?

Yeah. The guy I am working for is having a hard enough time getting merely 75 million into the country to do business here. He has to pay tax on it even though it is his money because it is coming from outside the country. He would probably park billions in US accounts but they want to rape his accounts on the transition. So he pulls only what he needs and has to wait two to three weeks plus to get his cash over here so he can invest in America and American jobs. Your plan would make it hard for the upper economic sector to re-liquidify this country with investments from foreign monies brought in or repatriated cash.

Don't quit your day job.

Rev9

 

[Revolution9]

People in the USA are homeless because of specific lifestyle choices they have made, usually involving substance abuse, and sometimes so bizarre and self-destructive we would classify the choices as mental illness. It's not that they just can't afford housing or something. No way.

I don't know where you live but this is an unrealistic assessment. A one bedroom apartment in an area you won't get robbed in will cost 800 USD average in Atlanta for a half decent one. Decent and yer above a grand. Yer an average worker in the service industry making 8 to 10 bucks an hour. You have to work 80 to 100 hours each month just to cover rent. Add utilities at 200USD and that is another 20 to 25 hours just to keep that roof over your head. Right now with just the basics that is 120 hours worked and a single grocery item has not been bought. Add transport costs and you end up eating badly with the little you have left. You will get sick at some point. Your service job will not pay you for sick days and if you lose five days you have a roof and heat and lights and water but no food. Yer only a short tumble to the street from there. A very tough place to wrench yourself out of as all your resources..shower..fresh clothes..hot meal, home address, phone line are all gone.

Like i said.. I don't know where you live but in the old days rent was one weeks work, groceries and household items was one week. other bills was one week and savings was one week.

Rev9

 

[helmuth_hubener]

That's it exactly. We have a Department of Defense, and that is what they should do. It is not a Department of Offense.

A year ago, I tested the waters for a run for the Presidency.

Etc. Etc. and you go on, like a true politician, to answer absolutely none of my questions and to give absolutely no specifics. Well at least now I understand who you are and where you're coming from and can stop foolish dreams about getting straight answers to reasonable questions.

There is an ongoing debate about the "general welfare clause" of the Constitution. I will not go into that here.

OK, so there's your clause. You're one of those. You do realize, of course, that PBS, EPA, and OSHA are promoting and furthering the general welfare. You do realize, of course, that under your interpretation there is no field of human activity solidly and definitely outside the purview of the central govt. You do realize, of course, that because you have this interpretation your claim that your plan would allow the govt to do only its Constitutional functions is utterly, utterly meaningless.

Did you read what I said about entitlements? If you did you would know that I hate them. I hate what they did to this country, to the people of this country. If I could I would eliminate all of them. But, with so many people, including me, depending on them, it would heartless and cruel to to that.

To the contrary, it would be heartless to keep destroying them and their families with the dole. I mean, how long are you planning on depending on the dole? Another month? Another year? Until you die? There has to be a limit to the madness! 60 days is a reasonable amount of time, don't you think?

I take it then that you are not a Christian.

I am a follower of Jesus. I try to follow his teachings. I think He would not approve at all of me deciding to scrap my life, throw it in the garbage, and direct all my time, energy, and resources toward allowing idle strangers a comfortable lifestyle, rather than pursuing my own worthy goals. I think He'd be horrified at the idea. This idea is anti-life.

And yet you are supporting Ron Paul who only wants to go back to 2.6 trillion.

Oh there's no way he'll be satisfied with 2.6 tees. This is what he's devoted his life to. Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. He is going to cut every dollar that can be cut. He does not want to only go back to 2.6 Ts. That is a total misunderstanding of who Ron Paul is and what he wants. That is not what he wants. That is a very clever campaign tool and a very modest beginning that nevertheless is a whole lot more cutting than his opponents have proposed (which is zip), and a whole lot more than you have proposed (which is vague and effectively also zip). What would be the total budget a President TomL would propose? Would it be 2.6 Big Ts? Would you want to trim at least a trillion ferns the first year? You're not going to tell us, see, because you're a wannabe-politician. You'll never say, not ever. It's a secret.

Ron Paul, you know where he stands. He'll give you specifics.

Before I answer about the FCC, do you even know what their function is?

Well FCC stands, I think, for the Fruitloops and Cheerios Chickens and their job is to make sure I don't ever see cigarettes. That's what I've been informed. And now are you going to try to claim that I'm wrong?

 

[Steven Douglas]

Well FCC stands, I think, for the Fruitloops and Cheerios Chickens and their job is to make sure I don't ever see cigarettes. That's what I've been informed. And now are you going to try to claim that I'm wrong?

Oh sheesh, I knew it!

Well, they can just keep their stinking paws off my cigarettes, those damned dirty FCC apes!

That's one thing I love about China. They smoke. A LOT. At dinner and in the middle of meals. It is so much a part of Chinese culture and customs that it is not uncommon to hear a young Chinese woman list "and he should also be a smoker" as one of her criteria for a man to marry, given that it opens up more opportunities to him.

Oh, and their cigarettes are much, much better than ours. Damn, they're good! The Chinese can buy some of the most popular American brands for about 10RMB a pack - very cheap, but also way down on the lower shelf with all the other "lower class" smokes.

Sorry for the interruption, anti-smoking prohibitionist nazis can all go straight to hell, and we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

[/hijack]

 

[SpicyTurkey]

Oh sheesh, I knew it!

Well, they can just keep their stinking paws off my cigarettes, those damned dirty FCC apes!

That's one thing I love about China. They smoke. A LOT. At dinner and in the middle of meals. It is so much a part of Chinese culture and customs that it is not uncommon to hear a young Chinese woman list "and he should also be a smoker" as one of her criteria for a man to marry, given that it opens up more opportunities to him.

Oh, and their cigarettes are much, much better than ours. Damn, they're good! The Chinese can buy some of the most popular American brands for about 10RMB a pack - very cheap, but also way down on the lower shelf with all the other "lower class" smokes.

Sorry for the interruption, anti-smoking prohibitionist nazis can all go straight to hell, and we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

[/hijack]

hahaha

+rep

 

[TomL]

First off, does anyone here know how to read. I have changed my mind about the Department of Education. My Department of Education would be for one purpose only. Demand that children learn to read in English or never get out of 1st grade, which is where some of you obviously belong.

Where in the world did I say anything about the FCC being allowed to take someone's cigarettes? What the FCC was designed to do and what they have been used to do by big government politicians are two different things, and I have never said otherwise.

And Helmuth, you said, "I am a follower of Jesus. I try to follow his teachings. I think He would not approve at all of me deciding to scrap my life, throw it in the garbage, and direct all my time, energy, and resources toward allowing idle strangers a comfortable lifestyle, rather than pursuing my own worthy goals. I think He'd be horrified at the idea. This idea is anti-life."

With that attitude there is no way that you are a follower of Jesus. I have studied the Bible ever since I was 7, and I am now 55. So let me educate you about what it means to follow Christ. Here is an article I have written called, "Following Christ."

Have you ever wondered what Jesus meant when he said, "come follow me"? I have. Therefore, I have recently did a bit of a study on the subject, using both, Vines's, and Strong's dictionaries.

The Greek word, "akoloutheo" , is defined in Strong's as, "to be in the same way with, to accompany." In Vine's as, "a follower, companion, expressing union." Obviously, it is more than simply walking behind someone. It seems more of a joining. And that makes sense. In fact, following Christ seems to be connected with making sacrifices.

When Jesus said to the disciples, "come follow me," they left their businesses and their families behind. When Jesus said to the rich ruler, "come follow me," it was prerequisite that he sell all his belongings and give to the poor. So, it seems that following Christ also brings with it making sacrifices. Definitely more than simply walking behind someone.

Is making sacrifices a requirement for following Christ today? Considering the sacrifices made by the apostles, I would say there are sacrifices to be made when you follow Christ. We are called upon to make sacrifices. Following Chrsit could mean leaving the family business in service to Christ. Maybe leaving the family, or not having a family at all. Maybe helping the poor in a sacrificial way. When you join Christ, you may be called upon to sacrifice everything, even your life.

When you join Christ and come into union with him, you sacrifice self-ownership. Scripture teaches that we are bought with a price. We are then owned by Christ. We are not our own, we belong to Christ.

Can you appreciate the full ramification of following Christ? If indeed following Christ means we come into union with him, are we not bound by union rules. My dad worked for Bethlehem Steel. Once in a while, they would hammer out a new contract. Once the new contract was approved by the membership, both sides were bound by the provisions of the contract. The same is true when you join union with Christ. There is a contract called the New Testament that all union members are bound by. And that is what following Christ is all about.

A part of that contract we have in union with Christ is, "Love your neighbor as yourself." And what did Jesus say about the good Samaritan? Let me refresh you memory. A man was on the road outside of the city. He was mugged. Religious people just passed him by. A Samaritan came a long and helped the "stranger." He took care of his wounds, then took him in the city, took him to a hotel, put him up in a room. He told the hotel owner to take care of the stranger, and when he returns, he will pay for everything. Obviously you are no good Samaritan. Followers of Jesus are compassionate toward the downtrodden, as Jesus was.

I also wrote an article called: "Was Jesus A Capitalist?" You can see it at this link: http://sonofdavid.myfreeforum.org/Was_Jesus_a_Capitalist__about46.html

For anyone interested, I went through the internet and found portions of my platform when I was thinking of running for President. You can find it at the following link: http://wayoftruth.motion-forum.net/...-was-thinking-about-running-for-president#506

I would hope some of you read what I said, and not comment on what I didn't say. If you are responding to someone else, please make that plain. Any comment standing alone, I assume it is meant to respond to the OP in someway. And Helmuth, please learn what it means to actually follow Jesus.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I don't know where you live but this is an unrealistic assessment. A one bedroom apartment in an area you won't get robbed in will cost 800 USD average in Atlanta for a half decent one.

I am not saying that housing is affordable and that everyone can afford housing. I'm saying that even those who cannot, do not end up literally living on the street, sleeping under the overpass or in the woods, digging through dumpsters, and generally being objects of pity and shock. They move in with friends, they move back in with parents, they go to shelters, they go to YWCAs, they get assistance from their churches, etc. etc. There's an almost unlimited number of layers of protections and fall-back plans for those needing housing. The ones who are forced to actually live on the streets in bad situations, not just during the day but even overnight, as derelicts, full-time beggars, weirdos, etc. are those who are kicked out of the shelters because of their substance abuse problems and those who are just so confused or deranged that they don't want to go to the shelters or anywhere else.

I have driven through downtown Atlanta. Believe me, the people there did not look like they were an exception to this rule. They were not normal, well-adjusted individuals.

Now there are some "homeless" people who are not really in any kind of desperate nor even uncomfortable situation, but are leftists doing it as a hip lifestyle choice, kind of like hippies. You find this type in warm, pleasant climates, like The People's Park in Berkeley.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Tom, you are hilarious. I love to laugh, so do stick around, please. "Where in the world did I say anything about the FCC being allowed to take someone's cigarettes?" Outrage!!!!!

Look, the type of "sacrifice" Jesus would look upon favorably and promote would be to give up something good for something even better. I'm not sure that can properly be called a sacrifice, but whatever you want to call it, there it is.

The kind of sacrifice you have somehow determined I should make is the kind where I give up something good for something ugly and lousy. Like I should sacrifice a beautiful painting that I spent a year of my life making to donate it to The People's Park for the express purpose of them using it to spit on and wipe their dirty hands. Now that is a real sacrifice. It's also a horrifyingly evil notion.

I am very gratified that you have chosen to fulfill my words absolutely by refusing to answer any questions directly or provide any specifics whatsoever. That's pretty hilarious, too.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I think you should sue Herman Cain for plagiarizing your campaign platform.

I am still formulating my foreign policy. And, I can only speak in generalities anyway since I am not privy to all the information a President needs to be to have a specific foreign policy.

You, sir, are the mastermind behind The Cain. Nine Nine NINE!!

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I also love it that 14.5% of your platform is devoted to the Pressing Issue of Amanda Someone in Italy.