My Economic Plan

[TomL]

Too many posts to read thru. Does your plan include creating an Honest Money System that prevents Money Manipulators from Abusing the Common Man?

Does it transfer the Real Wealth of the Country back into the hands of the people that create it? And by create, I mean create, not print. The Real Value of Wealth is the standards that it is measured against. Thus, it is the Goods and Services that the People Produce. Banking is the apitomy of what is NOT an Honest Money System, and it allows those with the power to create money (Banks, through loans) to acquire the wealth (being the Goods and Services of the People) through deceptive practices, such as foreclosures, repossession, etc.

Do you intend to get us off of a Debt Backed Interest Based Fiat Currency?

My plan eliminates all direct taxation except Social Security. My plan abolished the Federal Reserve and the IRS. Returns the control of money back to the Congress which is what the Constitution says. If Congress doesn't get it right, we just vote them out. We can't vote out the Federal Reserve.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

What your plan does is expend a whole huge amount of effort shuffling deck chairs around and accomplishing nothing. Do you have any idea how much time and political capital it would require to switch from an income tax to this state apportionment tax, plus a retail tax? It would be a battle to dwarf ObamaCare's, because it would be a massive, massive change. And for what? We can argue for one form of taxation being somewhat better than another but what it comes down to is that when you've got to collect 3.6 trillion dollars, it doesn't really matter all that much how you do it: it's going to be terrible. When you only need to collect 50 million, no matter how you do it it's going to be pretty light and trivial. What's more, your plan doesn't even eliminate income tax, it keeps it hanging around for Social Security's sake! So it just adds more creative revenue streams for politicians to suck dry and abuse. Eliminate the IRS? How is your retail tax going to be collected? And believe me, no one is going to just roll over and pay it. There will be massive evasion. Your retail tax goons are going to be given broad and brutal powers to try to instill absolute horror into people. Swat raids, life sentences, and even death penalties will be given to evaders in an attempt to raise compliance rates.

You can only do so much, even as President. So why not expend your blood, sweat, and tears on something that actually matters? That is what Ron Paul will do. His plan focuses on the Number 1, first-tier, very-most important issues. The only important issue you'll touch that matters is the Fed, and I'm not convinced you know anything about economics nor finances such that you could actually pull off an abolition of the Federal Reserve; if you tried, massive collapse probably would ensue, and the powers-that-be would be able to talk you into reinstating it, probably as a bargaining chip in exchange for getting Amanda So-and-So back from Italy .

You bemoan a lack of a common frame of reference. You easily could fix that and create a common frame of reference by naming a specific figure for your badget plan. But you don't want to do that. You don't want to give specifics. So really, you are just wasting all of our time.

 

[TomL]

Apparently I need to offer a greater explanation of where I'm coming from

Let me tell you what I set out to do. I set out to solve the jobs
problem. To eliminate all things at the federal level that strangle
business and eliminate jobs. Those things are. 1. The Federal tax
code, 2. Federal regulations, 3. Trade agreements that allowed a glut
of foreign goods and services to flood American markets.

I did some research on taxation. There are basically two types of
taxation. Direct and indirect. After my research I have concluded
that direct taxes are more detrimental than indirect taxes.

As I see it we have to give the American people the power and
incentive to buy American made products. That is close to the root of
the problem. People can't afford to buy American. The more the
Americans buy foreign products, the less need there is for American
made products to be made. And that means less people needed to make
those products.

And so, I crafted a plan that, I believe, would accomplish my goals.
I am certainly open to better ideas and plans. To date, I haven't
seen any.

According to news reports I heard that on Black Friday Americans spent
in the neighborhood of 350 billion dollars. That's 350 billion
dollars of retail revenue. And, more than likely most items sold were
probably foreign made. So, under my plan, the Federal Government
would have taken in near 70 billion dollars in taxes in one day. At
that rate of spending during this "holiday season" it could eclipse 1
trillion dollars. Under my plan, the Federal Government would take in
200 billion dollars. And that is not considering how much that would
be taken in at the border or from the States.

With my proposed spending cuts, that should be enough revenue. And
that's just in one month.

As I said, I am open to better ideas and plans. Where are they?

 

[DamianTV]

My plan eliminates all direct taxation except Social Security. My plan abolished the Federal Reserve and the IRS. Returns the control of money back to the Congress which is what the Constitution says. If Congress doesn't get it right, we just vote them out. We can't vote out the Federal Reserve.

The Federal Reserve Bank has a Charter that can be allowed to Expire...

 

[TomL]

The Federal Reserve Bank has a Charter that can be allowed to Expire...

When does it expire?

 

[TomL]

Originally Posted by Steven Douglas
Where do I begin? I wanted to state that I am a loser for having my own individual liberty - the untrammeled freedom to come and go as I please - taxed. But let's take on just one from your list:

5. Congress should levy tariffs on all goods coming into the United States to recuperate lost revenues due to the elimination of Capital Gains and Corporate taxes.

Firstly, I don't care about lost revenues for Capital Gains, which are often tantamount to "inflation taxes" (paying for the privilege of having your currency devalued by an already hidden tax). That one is not always about profits anyway, and is already a tax that picks winners and losers.

Furthermore, levying a tariff on foreign goods coming into the United States gives an artificial incentive for American interests not be as competitive. I don't see that as a good thing at all, or anything but damaging - especially in the long term. It sounds good on paper, as it appears on the surface only to choose winners and losers on the manufacturing side, but the additional loser that you left out is the CONSUMER.

In addition, you will have incentivized (as we have done so many times in the past) those on the foreign side to a) devalue their own currency to remain competitive, and/or b) slash their own prices (offer a sale and accept less, even long term) to make themselves more competitive, and/or c) work all the harder to make a superior product which is naturally more competitive despite the difference in price. In reality, it is a combination of all the foregoing, and then some. They don't just sit back and take it. AND, you don't have control over the amounts or tariffs they will NO DOUBT put up in return, to try and make up the artificial difference with one that is equally artificial on their part.

First, I should explain that my plan was written in stages. Part II was actually written before Part I. The plan is designed to pass one part at a time if need be. If all parts were enacted at the same time, Part II, Section 5 would not be needed. When I put together my jobs plan (Part II), I was dealing with current circumstances. Current tax code, and current regulations. The changes I propose in my jobs plan are changes I believe are the least needed to help the American worker to get back to work. It is designed to spur on investment and do something about the regulatory atmosphere businesses have to operate in, and to do something about the trade imbalance, and therefore create jobs. The reason for the tariffs are as I said, to offset lost revenue, as I was aiming for a plan that is revenue neutral. We still have a huge National Debt that must be dealt with. Loss of revenue is not wise till the debt is paid down. And, again, I was dealing with current circumstances. Current tax code, current form of spending, current type of currency we are all forced to lose. If all that changes, then my jobs plan might be moot.

The tax plan and the spending plan came some time later.

I still don't see how I am picking winners and losers.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Loss of revenue is not wise till the debt is paid down.

Loss of revenue is always, always wise. Criminal gangs ought to have as little revenue as possible. It is the duty of all decent people to try to take actions and support measures which will minimize the power and prosperity of criminal gangs and instead encourage and reward honest and upright behavior.

 

[TomL]

Loss of revenue is always, always wise. Criminal gangs ought to have as little revenue as possible. It is the duty of all decent people to try to take actions and support measures which will minimize the power and prosperity of criminal gangs and instead encourage and reward honest and upright behavior.

Don't be so stupid.

 

[Travlyr]

That's not stupid. What is stupid is to go another day letting the criminal gang plunder.

 

[Seraphim]

I think you've come to the wrong place.

The Paul Krugman convention is down the road.

Don't be so stupid.

 

[TomL]

Travlyr and Seraphim, What I was referring too was Helmuth's statement, "Loss of revenue is always, always wise." I think that is stupid. When a factory that employs 300 people loses revenue, is that always wise? When a family loses revenue, is that always wise?

 

[Travlyr]

Travlyr and Seraphim, What I was referring too was Helmuth's statement, "Loss of revenue is always, always wise." I think that is stupid. When a factory that employs 300 people loses revenue, is that always wise? When a family loses revenue, is that always wise?

Yeah, simple misunderstanding. I read Helmuth's statement to mean "Loss of (government) revenue is always, always wise."

 

[TomL]

Yeah, simple misunderstanding. I read Helmuth's statement to mean "Loss of (government) revenue is always, always wise."

That's not what he said. And the examples he gave were not necessarily government.

 

[Seraphim]

He meant a loss of government revenue.

That's not what he said. And the examples he gave were not necessarily government.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

That is definitely what I meant; thanks guys. Anyway, I watched Meet the Robinsons the other day and on that note, I'd like to say:

I'm just not sure how well this plan was thought through.

 

[TomL]

That is definitely what I meant; thanks guys. Anyway, I watched Meet the Robinsons the other day and on that note, I'd like to say:

I'm just not sure how well this plan was thought through.

Then you must believe that our government is a criminal organization. You should have been plainer.

You should like my tax plan then, it is guaranteed to bring revenues down.

 

[Travlyr]

Do you consider theft to be a crime?

 

[TomL]

A lot of people already know that our government is controlled by a criminal organization.

Do you consider counterfeiting to be a crime?
Do you consider conspiracy to overthrow a government a crime?
Do you consider theft to be a crime?

In November 1910, a gang of international banking interests and members of their families, who were American government leaders, International Banker Paul Warburg and Senator Nelson Aldrich, et.al., conspired for 9 days on how to overthrow the U.S. government. They were successful in overthrowing our government on the eve of Christmas eve in 1913. The conspirators admitted to this fact before they died. The Federal Reserve System is a system of "elastic" money which is a technical term for counterfeiting. Through inflation the people who have the unconstitutional power to print money are stealing from taxpayers.

Our government is controlled by a group of counterfeiting thieves who subverted the American constitutional republic.
This is not conspiracy theory. These are proven facts. You can learn all about it here. "The Secrets of the Federal Reserve" by Eustace Mullins.

Personally, I like Ron Paul's economic plan a lot better than yours. You can learn about it here: "Gold, Peace, and Prosperity" by Ron Paul

I have struggled with the idea of a conspiracy. It's hard for me to believe that this was just allowed to happen, and yet the evidence is plain, isn't it.

I have research the Federal Reserve, and in my opinion, they should all be tried and convicted of treason.

But, I have a hard time believing that everyone in our government has been co-opted. Ron Paul hasn't been, has he? And will he be if he is elected to the Presidency?
While I am concerned about these things, I am uncertain of the depth of the conspiracy. Is it as strong today as it once was? Who in government is part of it?

And, I will admit, I do not have a full knowledge of all this. But I do know enough to be concerned.

 

[Steven Douglas]

But, I have a hard time believing that everyone in our government has been co-opted. Ron Paul hasn't been, has he?

To the heart of the principle: I have a loathing for the AMA that is very close to my loathing of our treasonous Fed. But I don't have a loathing for doctors in general - including Dr./Sen. Paul - even though the AMA has been the highly protectionist, health care system corrupting, union for doctors. I also have a loathing for the two party system, the electoral college system, and campaign and election laws that favor two behemoths, and block all otherwise viable challenges to national office - but that loathing does not carry over to Ron Paul, or any specific member of any party or system.

Likewise, I consider our banking system evil and systemically corrupt to its core, but not bankers in general.

The undisputed, fully corroborated facts behind what happened on Jekyll Island leaves no doubting of a past conspiracy. There is no other way to define that secret meeting, and all the meticulous planning of a full-on campaign to dupe banks, educational institutions, Congress and the American public, all of which were leery of central banking, that it was a heartland inspired cry as a vehicle for a necessary control over banks, so that the panic of 1907 could not be repeated.

So while I am absolutely certain that conspiracies happen now, even as they did then, I don't waste time with things I can't prove. In a very big way they are an irrelevant distraction, as my focus is only on what is already untenable, criminal on its face, and in broad daylight. Criminal deeds spoken of as "normal", and "acceptable", with straight faces, no less. Thus, I don't need to prove or even understand what is going on behind any closed doors. I have plenty to work with that is completely out in the open. End those things, and what happens behind closed doors becomes irrelevant.

 

[TomL]

To the heart of the principle: I have a loathing for the AMA that is very close to my loathing of our treasonous Fed. But I don't have a loathing for doctors in general - including Dr./Sen. Paul - even though the AMA has been the highly protectionist, health care system corrupting, union for doctors. I also have a loathing for the two party system, the electoral college system, and campaign and election laws that favor two behemoths, and block all otherwise viable challenges to national office - but that loathing does not carry over to Ron Paul, or any specific member of any party or system.

Likewise, I consider our banking system evil and systemically corrupt to its core, but not bankers in general.

The undisputed, fully corroborated facts behind what happened on Jekyll Island leaves no doubting of a past conspiracy. There is no other way to define that secret meeting, and all the meticulous planning of a full-on campaign to dupe banks, educational institutions, Congress and the American public, all of which were leery of central banking, that it was a heartland inspired cry as a vehicle for a necessary control over banks, so that the panic of 1907 could not be repeated.

So while I am absolutely certain that conspiracies happen now, even as they did then, I don't waste time with things I can't prove. In a very big way they are an irrelevant distraction, as my focus is only on what is already untenable, criminal on its face, and in broad daylight. Criminal deeds spoken of as "normal", and "acceptable", with straight faces, no less. Thus, I don't need to prove or even understand what is going on behind any closed doors. I have plenty to work with that is completely out in the open. End those things, and what happens behind closed doors becomes irrelevant.

Understood except for one thing. What is your problem with the electoral college?