My debate with a fellow Ron Paul supporter regarding the birther issue.

[Stary Hickory]

you are wrong about so much it's hard to know where to start, so I'll go with the biggest - this didn't happen all of a sudden. Phil Berg (a Democrat, by the way) was looking at this in June of 2008 even before the Great O had the nomination. maybe you only HEARD about it lately because the lamestream media is firmly in the Great O camp.

lynn

Exactly this issue was discussed before Obama was anointed POTUS by the media. What we saw was attempts to verbally intimidate and ridicule anyone who brought the issue up. This was nothing more than am attempt to stifle inquiry and questioning about a legitimate issue. One that if was true meant our POTUS was forging documents or presenting false information to the public to ensure his election.

The media and many people even here(sad to say) went on a ridiculing offensive that transcended logical attempts at discussion. People who proclaim to be seekers of the truth tried their best to prevent it from even coming to the light.

The only thing we can know for sure, is that many people have said Obama is not who he says he is including his own Grandmother who died quickly after being telephoned and asked about it. Now we can not say for sure what is going on, there is plenty of reason to harbor doubts and suspicions. Obama's actions are typical of someone hiding something from the public, and it has not helped him in the political arena. It is a constitutional requirement that many other presidents and presidential hopefuls before him were more than happy to show that they are complying with the law.

If Obama is found to be lying I am all for immediate impeachment and repeals of legislation he has had a hand in. The thing is if you believe it is ok to selectively ignore the Constitution come out and say so. If you are running for office in blatant disregard for the rules in the Constituion, come out and say so. This is ridiculous Obama may have(may as we know nothing for sure) lied to get into office, defrauding American voters whilst the media defended him like attack dogs resorting to name calling to try and intimidate anyone questioning the matter.

Time will tell what is going on with Obama, he has spent millions to keep this hidden, and sat by why military members got court martialed trying to uncover the truth when the simple presentation of one piece of paper would resolve everything. I do not care if I hated the military with every fiber in my body I would not sit by and let a man lose his career and face criminal penalties out of my own pride..if this is indeed what it is. It would have to be some twisted sociopathic type of self adoration if you ask me.

Not to mention,.I would not serve the public as POTUS and let doubts linger in their minds over such a trivial issue if I could so easily resolve the problem. To not do so is almost to show disdain and contempt for those you are imposing your will on. It really is outrageous, either way this goes. If he is telling the truth he has acted shamefully and if he has been lying it is even worse.

 

[acptulsa]

Either the constitution and the rule of law is 100% bullshit or 100% valid.

You know that and I know that. But most of these people have no idea that they're the frog in the water and they almost have us up to boiling temperature. Years ago, people actually did get upset about Constitutional questions, though not upset enough (obviously), that would barely rate a yawn today.

I think they're a nice set. Who cares about the birther issue? Well, if they'll ignore that, they'll ignore Congress whenever there's someone in it who might demand a debate on whether or not we need a third war. And if we let them get away with this, then that, what next? Will they invade our privacy via our cell phones--and refuse to repeal it even if we elect someone because they promised to?

 

[Stary Hickory]

You know that and I know that. But most of these people have no idea that they're the frog in the water and they almost have us up to boiling temperature. Years ago, people actually did get upset about Constitutional questions, though not upset enough (obviously), that would barely rate a yawn today.

I think they're a nice set. Who cares about the birther issue? Well, if they'll ignore that, they'll ignore Congress whenever there's someone in it who might demand a debate on whether or not we need a third war. And if we let them get away with this, then that, what next? Will they invade our privacy via our cell phones--and refuse to repeal it even if we elect someone because they promised to?

The thing is this, the same people who are saying "who cares?", were the ones laughing, name calling, verbally assaulting people during the elections when it did matter...they did not want the public to make an informed decision. Now these same people are backing away from the issue because it has gotten quite odd Obama has acted very suspiciously and is becoming virtually impossible to defend on this issue....now these people have gone into the "who cares" argument.

What we see is a pattern to protect a president, it has nothing to do with the real issue. With both arguments you have people trying to either prevent discovery or minimize the impact of this hypothetical discovery. It would not be hard to find hypocrites who vehemently attacked the validity of such questioning as ridiculous previously and now who are saying the possible affirmation of these doubts is not really important.

 

[acptulsa]

It would not be hard to find hypocrites who vehemently attacked the validity of such questioning as ridiculous previously and now who are saying the possible affirmation of these doubts is not really important.

And, unfortunately, at this point they actually have an argument. Replacing Obama with Biden wouldn't make any difference whatsoever.

I suppose you could argue Biden would be disposed to behave, or disposed of, but it would make little other policy difference.

 

[Stary Hickory]

And, unfortunately, at this point they actually have an argument. Replacing Obama with Biden wouldn't make any difference whatsoever.

I suppose you could argue Biden would be disposed to behave, or disposed of, but it would make little other policy difference.

Well I don't care, as much as I do about some kind of justice being done. I'd rather have Biden than Obama for those reasons alone. I do not think Obama will be reelected as he has done nothing to warrant it.

 

[acptulsa]

Well I don't care, as much as I do about some kind of justice being done. I'd rather have Biden than Obama for those reasons alone. I do not think Obama will be reelected as he has done nothing to warrant it.

Well, that is one thing. Biden would be even weaker. But I agree that it's a one-term administration either way.

 

[treyfu]

It does not matter if Obama is the legitimate or illegitimate president of an illegitimate criminal organization. This "issue" should be dropped immediately to focus on destroying the criminal state in all forms.

 

[Carson]

It does not matter if Obama is the legitimate or illegitimate president of an illegitimate criminal organization. This "issue" should be dropped immediately to focus on destroying the criminal state in all forms.

Perhaps, It does matter if Obama is the legitimate or illegitimate president of an illegitimate criminal organization. This "issue" should be raised immediately to focus on destroying the criminal state in all forms.

 

[AGRP]

I can see it being an issue....2 years ago!

Now? It's a blatant distraction issue.

Focus on things that matter; things the states doesn't want you to focus on.

*cough* 10th Amendment *cough*

 

[Zippyjuan]

The only thing we can know for sure, is that many people have said Obama is not who he says he is including his own Grandmother who died quickly after being telephoned and asked about it. Now we can not say for sure what is going on, there is plenty of reason to harbor doubts and suspicions. Obama's actions are typical of someone hiding something from the public, and it has not helped him in the political arena. It is a constitutional requirement that many other presidents and presidential hopefuls before him were more than happy to show that they are complying with the law.

What did his grandmother say (the longer version of the conversation- not the edited one which conveniently leaves off the last part)?
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2009/07/23/liddy

Here's the conversation:


MCRAE: Could I ask her about his actual birthplace? I would like to see his birthplace when I come to Kenya in December. Was she present when he was born in Kenya?

OGOMBE: Yes. She says, yes, she was, she was present when Obama was born.

MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombasa?

OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America.

MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.

OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombasa.

MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.

OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii.

The birther issue and the "Obama is a musilm" issues were simply intended to portray him as "not one of us"- whatever "us" is.

 

[BlackTerrel]

Good argument Peter Schiff. For those who want to believe it, unfortunately, it will fall on deaf ears.