More Evidence Proves Nutrition Beats Vaccines in Preventing Disease

[Natural Citizen]

She accused me of revealing personal information. She insinuated that I only volunteer in order to data mine info. (So she can't donate or volunteer, of course....someone might find out who she is.)

But I'm the insulting one?

No, I didn't. I merely asked. I'm sorry if you felt insulted. Then again, it seems like you already felt insulted by beeing seen as an equal to us "little" guys.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

I didn't ask you anything except wtf is wrong with you

Back to the beginning. The title of the thread is "More Evidence Proves Nutrition Beats Vaccines In Preventing Disease."

DonnaY (who always bellows I need to to more research) posted that provided no evidence, and encouraged readers to examine studies comparing unvaxxed kids to vaxxed kids . When I looked for any of those studies, I found another article by the same author that claims thse studies don't exist.

For a rational thinker like me, that sends up a red flag. Since DonnaY is obviously so smart and knows so much, I asked her to provide me the study to which her author was referring.

Her only response was not a study, but was an internet survey with no control groups, no random selection of the participants, and no independent diagnosis of the ailments "reported." She has posted this several times before, and never once has she acknowledged, much less defended the problems with the data and methodology.

Just waiting for her to respond with a real study, comparing vaxxed kids to unvaxxed kids, that prove nutrition beats vaccines.

I already know I'll be waiting forever because it doesn't exist.

Ok.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

She accused me of revealing personal information. She insinuated that I only volunteer in order to data mine info. (So she can't donate or volunteer, of course....someone might find out who she is.)

But I'm the insulting one?

Now you pretend the like two dozen insults you've hurled at more than one person in thread didn't even happen. Awesome.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

She accused me of revealing personal information. She insinuated that I only volunteer in order to data mine info. (So she can't donate or volunteer, of course....someone might find out who she is.)

But I'm the insulting one?

Now you pretend the like two dozen insults you've hurled at more than one person in thread didn't even happen. Awesome.

Also I don't recall Donnay saying any of that. But yes, you are the insulting one.

 

[angelatc]

Now you pretend the like two dozen insults you've hurled at more than one person in thread didn't even happen. Awesome.

Also I don't recall Donnay saying any of that. But yes, you are the insulting one.

Not DonaY - Natural Citizen.

 

[Natural Citizen]

So you accuse me of revealing personal information, you insinuate that I only volunteer so I can data mine donor info, but then magnanimously you're willing to work with me on a project of my choice.

Yeah, that seems perfectly sane.

Please provide a source that supports your claim that I made any accusation whatsoever to that point, angelatc. I contend that I merely asked a question. The closest you come to even creating the illusion of an accusation is my thought on if you ever became a mod. But that thought had nothing to do with my question.

You may go. I'll wait.

 

[angelatc]

Please provide a source that supports your claim that I made any accusation whatsoever to that point, angelatc. I contend that I merely asked a question.

You may go. I'll wait.

Oh, I see you're in passive aggressive mode tonight. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ting-Disease&p=6319468&viewfull=1#post6319468

 

[John F Kennedy III]

Natural Citizen is a woman? We can't be friends anymore.

 

[angelatc]

Natural Citizen is a woman? We can't be friends anymore.

I don't know, actually. Now that you mention it, I think I was surprised once before when I found it she was really a he. I guess I forgot.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Oh, I see you're in passive aggressive mode tonight. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ting-Disease&p=6319468&viewfull=1#post6319468

Well, I'm sorry you're offended, dear, but I see no accusation whatsoever. Again, I merely asked a question.

Now, I can go through and take the time to find the postings where your keyboard malfunctioned in the same exact way at just the right time when responding to just the right person. There are several. That's something else. It's actually why I 'd asked the question in the forst place. Would you like that? It wouldn't be a problem at all. Like I said, I'm dedicated, You know? I get stuff done when I need to.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

Oh, I see you're in passive aggressive mode tonight. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ting-Disease&p=6319468&viewfull=1#post6319468

Passive aggressive? That's funny coming from the person that just barely stopped insulting people in this thread. What do I mean stopped? You're just taking a break for a few posts. Like the eye of a hurricane.

 

[Ender]

Just waiting for her to respond with a real study, comparing vaxxed kids to unvaxxed kids, that prove nutrition beats vaccines.

I already know I'll be waiting forever because it doesn't exist.

Rocket Science

Studies comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated populations

Updated, 1/7/2016

According to Barbara Loe Fisher of the National Vaccine Information Center:

1 highly vaccinated child in 45 develops autism in America today;24 1 in 6 has learning disabilities; 25 1 in 9 has asthma;26 1 in 10 has ADHD;27 1 in 12 suffers with depression;28 ,29 1 in 400 become diabetic30 and millions more struggle with other kinds of immune and brain disorders marked by chronic inflammation in the brain and body.31,32, 33, 34

references:
24 Zabolotsky B, Black LI et al. Estimated Prevalence of Autism and Other Developmental Disabilities Following Questionnaire Changes in the 2014 National Health Interview Survey . CDC National Health Statistics Reports Nov. 13, 2015.
25 Boyle CA, Boulet S et al. Trends in the Prevalence of Developmental Disabilities in US Children 1997-2000. Pediatrics May 23, 2011.
26 Stoner Am, Anderson SE, Buckley JJ. Ambient Air Toxics and Asthma Prevalence among a Representative Sample of US Kindergarten-Age Children. PLOS One 2013; 8(9).
27 Kounang N.ADHD diagnoses rise to 11% of kids. CNN Nov.22, 2013
28 Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. Survey reveals adolescent females are twice as likely as adolescent males to suffer a major depressive episode . SAMHSA May 13, 2008.
29 National Alliance on Mental Illness. Anxiety Disorders in Children and Adolescents. May 2014.
30 American Diabetes Association.U.S. Diabetes Statistics: Under 20 Years of Age. American Diabetes Association Feb. 12, 2014.
31 Zimm A. Chronic Illnesses on rise, study says: Children’s cases in U.S. quadruple . Bloomberg News June 27, 2007.
32 American Autoimmune Related Diseases Association. Growing Number of Autoimmune Disease Cases Reported . AARDA Press Release June 21, 2012.
33 Jackson KD, Howie LD, Akinabami LJ. Trends in Allergic Conditions Among Children: United States, 1997-2011 . NCHS Data brief May 2013; 121.
34 Silverberg JI, Joks R, Durkin HG. Allergic disease is associated with epilepsy in childhood: a population based study . Allergy 2014; 69(10: 1428.

Note: In response to correspondence from a reader, this page was edited on 2/8/2015. Two references to broken links (now showing as “suspended page“) were removed. And, since the sample size of 94 compared to another sample size of over 13,000 cannot provide reliable data, we have removed commentary on the rate of infections and atopy in certain age groups.

Are health outcomes different when one compares vaccinated children with unvaccinated children? To date, there has never been an independent, adequately designed, prospective, randomized placebo-controlled study on this subject containing enough “n” (numbers of children) to have statistical significance.

In fact, this sort of study, that would give the most definitive answer (i.e., long-term total health outcome in the prospective randomized placebo-controlled trial of the whole vaccination schedule) is considered “unethical” by the establishment so only small, biased or “meta-analysis” studies are put in front of consumers. You can find this list of studies at the bottom of this article.

The following is taken in part from Public Testimony of Dr. Heather Rice at the Vermont Department of Health hearing on Act 157, 10/19/2012:

No true prospective, randomized and controlled study of health outcomes of vaccinated people versus unvaccinated has ever been conducted in the U.S. by CDC or any other agency in the 50 years or more of an accelerating schedule of vaccinations.

However, a German study published in 2011 compared the health outcomes of 94 unvaccinated children versus 13,359 vaccinated children (Dtsch Arztebl Int. 2011 February; 108(7): 99–104.”Vaccination Status and Health in Children and Adolescents; Findings of the German Health Interview and Examination Survey for Children and Adolescents (KiGGS).” (pdf of article – reply#1 – reply#2 – reply#3 ). Because the number of unvaccinated children included in the analysis is so small, statistical evaluation is nearly impossible.
Dtsch Arztebl Int. 2011 Feb;108(7):99-104. doi: 10.3238/arztebl.2011.0099. Epub 2011 Feb 18.
Vaccination status and health in children and adolescents: findings of the German Health Interview and Examination Survey for Children and Adolescents (KiGGS).
Schmitz R1, Poethko-Müller C, Reiter S, Schlaud M.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Whether unvaccinated children and adolescents differ from those vaccinated in terms of health is subject to some discussion.
METHOD:

We evaluated data on diseases that are preventable by vaccination, infectious and atopic diseases, and vaccinations received that had been collected between 2003 and 2006 in a representative sample of 17 641 subjects aged 0 to 17 years in the framework of the German Health Interview and Examination Survey for Children and Adolescents (Kinder- und Jugendgesundheitssurvey, KiGGS).
RESULTS:

Evaluable data on vaccinations were available for 13 453 subjects aged 1-17 years from non-immigrant families. 0.7% of them (95% confidence interval: 0.5%-0.9%) were not vaccinated. The lifetime prevalence of diseases preventable by vaccination was markedly higher in unvaccinated than in vaccinated subjects. Unvaccinated children aged 1-5 years had a median number of 3.3 (2.1-4.6) infectious diseases in the past year, compared to 4.2 (4.1-4.4) in vaccinated children. Among 11- to 17-year-olds, the corresponding figures were 1.9 (1.0-2.8) (unvaccinated) versus 2.2 (2.1-2.3) (vaccinated). The lifetime prevalence of at least one atopic disease among 1- to 5-year-olds was 12.6% (5.0%-28.3%) in unvaccinated children and 15.0% (13.6%-16.4%) in vaccinated children. In older children, atopy was more common, but its prevalence was not found to depend on vaccination status: among 6- to 10-year-olds, the prevalence figures were 30.1% (12.9%-55.8%) for unvaccinated children versus 24.4% (22.8%-26.0%) for vaccinated children, and the corresponding figures for 11- to 17-year-olds were 20.3% (10.1%-36.6%) versus 29.9% (28.4%-31.5%).
CONCLUSION:

The prevalence of allergic diseases and non-specific infections in children and adolescents was not found to depend on vaccination status.

Rest of article at: http://www.vaxchoicevt.com/science/studies-comparing-vaccinated-to-unvaccinated-populations/

 

[angelatc]

Well, I'm sorry you're offended, dear, but I see no accusation whatsoever. Again, I merely asked a question.

Now, I can go through and take the time to find the postings where your keyboard malfunctioned in the same exact way at just the right time when responding to just the right person. That's something else. Would you like that? It wouldn't be a problem at all.

Now you're trying to intimidate me. To answer the question, I don't care one whit.

And the primary reason I don't like to voluntarily submit my personal information (which effectively means I can't contribute) where certain friends who eagerly volunteer to participate in those private projects or drives may access it. I'm left with questions that I don't have the answers for so can only maka reasonable judgement by ones actions (actions are a choice, btw). But you've done this before with her name. Several times. Even publicly acknowledging and distributing her first name and last initial with your little snarky and strategic quotation marks in your postings. Is it just to let her know that you know who she is and want to use it against her in order to try to intimidate her in some way?

Remember, up until your rant I had no idea what her real name actually was. But my presence on the forums means you can't donate or volunteer. Sucks to be you.




And in the meantime, I'm over here like, "Wow, isn't it amazing how far these people will go to avoid the elephant in the room, which is that they can't actually produce any of those studies I'm supposed to be researching?

 

[angelatc]

Passive aggressive? That's funny coming from the person that just barely stopped insulting people in this thread. What do I mean stopped? You're just taking a break for a few posts. Like the eye of a hurricane.

You aren't passed out yet?


Oh wait - I see what you mean.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

Now you're trying to intimidate me. To answer the question, I don't care one whit.

Remember, up until your rant I had no idea what her real name actually was. But my presence on the forums means you can't donate or volunteer. Sucks to be you.




And in the meantime, I'm over here like, "Wow, isn't it amazing how far these people will go to avoid the elephant in the room, which is that they can't actually produce any of those studies I'm supposed to be researching?

Cool, she's just gonna keep ignoring Ender. Because she can't refute a single thing Ender has posted. Let alone write up a point by point refutation.

 

[Zippyjuan]

According to Barbara Loe Fisher of the National Vaccine Information Center:

http://skepdic.com/fisherbl.html

Barbara Loe Fisher is one of the co-founders of the National Vaccine Information Center, a clearing house for the anti-vaccination movement. She and others in the anti-vaccination movement were brought together by their common belief, since proven wrong, that vaccines cause autism. Fisher and her group vigorously oppose public health measures that require mandatory vaccinations.

Yes, and over those past two decades numerous scientific studies have been published on the issue and the evidence has failed to support the notion that vaccines are a significant risk factor for autism. But it doesn't matter to Barbara Loe Fisher, Jenny McCarthy, or Oprah Winfrey. Once their guts told them vaccines are a problem, their brains were guided by confirmation bias. They ignored or brushed off the scientific evidence and found "experts" who agreed with them. Mostly, however, they collected anecdotes of cases which do more to exemplify the post hoc fallacy than anything else.

Her article you posted above notes:

No true prospective, randomized and controlled study of health outcomes of vaccinated people versus unvaccinated has ever been conducted in the U.S. by CDC or any other agency in the 50 years or more of an accelerating schedule of vaccinations.

However, a German study published in 2011 compared the health outcomes of 94 unvaccinated children versus 13,359 vaccinated children (Dtsch Arztebl Int. 2011 February; 108(7): 99–104.”Vaccination Status and Health in Children and Adolescents; Findings of the German Health Interview and Examination Survey for Children and Adolescents (KiGGS).” (pdf of article – reply#1 – reply#2 – reply#3 ). Because the number of unvaccinated children included in the analysis is so small, statistical evaluation is nearly impossible.

Noting also she left off the conclusion of that study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3057555/

Conclusion

The prevalence of allergic diseases and non-specific infections in children and adolescents was not found to depend on vaccination status.

It tries to link vaccines and asthma while the link they listed citing how many cases there are is discussing not vaccines but air quality:

. Ambient Air Toxics and Asthma Prevalence among a Representative Sample of US Kindergarten-Age Children. PLOS One 2013; 8(9).

Cherry picking data from sources which do not support her conclusions.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Now you're trying to intimidate me. To answer the question, I don't care one whit.

Well, no, I was just trying to be helpful is all. It's the right thing to do. You know? You can put your arbitrary victim status card away.


I'm getting off of the forum for the night, though. We can pick this up tomorow if you want.

Good Night, angelatc.

 

[angelatc]

Cool, she's just gonna keep ignoring Ender. Because she can't refute a single thing Ender has posted. Let alone write up a point by point refutation.

Last time I peeked, he was posting that same tired ol' stuff about gettin' the autismz. I am specifically looking for the research that Donnay's source said we should all look at.




And in the meantime, I'm over here like, "Wow, isn't it amazing how far these people will go to avoid the elephant in the room, which is that they can't actually produce any of those studies I'm supposed to be researching?

 

[angelatc]

Well, no, I was just trying to be helpful is all. It's the right thing to do. You know? You can put your arbitrary victim status card away.


I'm getting off of the forum for the night, though. We can pick this up tommorow if you want.

Good Night, angelatc.

Going to be is by far the most helpful thing you've done tonight. Sleep tight
.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

Last time I peeked, he was posting that same tired ol' stuff about gettin' the autismz. I am specifically looking for the research that Donnay's source said we should all look at.




And in the meantime, I'm over here like, "Wow, isn't it amazing how far these people will go to avoid the elephant in the room, which is that they can't actually produce any of those studies I'm supposed to be researching?

Yep, you're still going to continue to be willfully ignorant. Fun times.