More Evidence Proves Nutrition Beats Vaccines in Preventing Disease

[angelatc]

Yep, you're still going to continue to be willfully ignorant. Fun times.

I'm willful. You're ignorant.

 

[angelatc]

Zippy just posted the spoiler. Darn you Zippy!

No true prospective, randomized and controlled study of health outcomes of vaccinated people versus unvaccinated has ever been conducted in the U.S. by CDC or any other agency in the 50 years or more of an accelerating schedule of vaccinations.

But how can it be? This was in the first article posted:

Comparative studies of unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals add to the argument that vaccines are not the answer to disease prevention.

So obviously we can't DO OUR RESEARCH and read the studies that the article waaaay back in the first post told us we should read if we had doubts, because they don't exist.

 

[Bryan]

For the record I think it's awesome that you can insult someone like, what, 20 times in the same thread? And the mods will do absolutely nothing about it besides inexplicably punishing one or more of the people you insulted.

That is not the case, if we are made aware of the situation we will deal with it.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

That is not the case, if we are made aware of the situation we will deal with it.

Appreciated. Unless edited you will find many examples of angelatc insulting members in this thread. I've seen members temp banned or even permabanned for far less.

 

[Bryan]

And I believe yours is, in addition to being biased, both uninformed and without proper discernment. We can just agree to disagree and rest assure I don't believe you should be forced to agree. Just, be careful giving medical advice when you are not a medical professional.

I completely understand the concern in general, but I do not see anywhere where medical advice is being given. This is basic information, which could be correct or not, and can be useful for someone to look into more, and consult a medial professional for specific advise on your personal situation. It's not much different (but 180* opposite) of a drug commercial the only difference is, our disclaimers are in our T&C, which state:

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As with other topics (such as news or religious matters), we rarely take issue with posting if third party material of done in a correct manner. The information is already out there, posting it here just allows for additional discussion and information to be produced which could provide value for other people at some point.

Thanks for your concern on this, please let me know of any suggested updated we should make to our protocols on handling this or updates to our Terms and Conditions.

Thanks!

 

[Bryan]

Appreciated. Unless edited you will find many examples of angelatc insulting members in this thread. I've seen members temp banned or even permabanned for far less.

Typically those will be a "straw that broke the back" situation. We have a protocol we strive to follow with these things with the use of notes, warnings, infractions and bans.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I don't want to see angelatc banned. She's done far more around here than I have and most others. Just knock off the dumb is all. No good can or will come from it.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

Typically those will be a "straw that broke the back" situation. We have a protocol we strive to follow with these things with the use of notes, warnings, infractions and bans.

I don't want to see angelatc banned. She's done far more around here than I have and most others. Just knock off the dumb is all. No good can or will come from it.

I'm fine with this. She just needs to knock off the insane level of insults. She should at least get a warning for what she has done in this thread and eventually banned if she keeps insulting people. Her behavior in this thread absolutely should not glossed over and nothing at all done about it. She's been doing this for years I'm sure you can literally find over 1,000 examples.

 

[Ender]

I don't want to see angelatc banned. She's done far more around here than I have and most others. Just knock off the dumb is all. No good can or will come from it.

I agree with this.

On any other subject she is usually pretty cool but anything about vaccines sends her into the Ozone- especially if posted by donnay.

 

[donnay]

Rocket Science



Rest of article at: http://www.vaxchoicevt.com/science/studies-comparing-vaccinated-to-unvaccinated-populations/

Let's not forget the CDC whistleblower, Dr. William Thompson. The CDC doesn't help Big pHARMa in any way?

Reference:
https://vaccineimpact.com/2016/cdc-whistleblower-to-extend-mmr-vaccine-fraud/

Unvaccinated Children Excel Developmentally

When looking at the data for developmental milestones, for instance, it’s clear that unvaccinated children are generally higher achievers than vaccinated children. The latest figures show that the overall percentage of vaccinated children who perform better than others in their peer group is 31.1%. At the same time the overall percentage of unvaccinated children who perform better than their peers is 38.4%.

This gap widens somewhat in the average performers category. Here, 43.7% of vaccinated children performed at a similar level to that of their peers, compared with 56.1% among unvaccinated children. In other words, unvaccinated children are more likely than vaccinated children to keep up with their peers in all areas of normal childhood development.

But the real kicker is the percentages in the “behind their peer group” category. A simple filtering of the VanVCD data shows they are significantly higher in the vaccinated group. More than one-quarter (25.2%) of vaccinated children perform worse than their peers developmentally, compared to just 5.5% among unvaccinated children − a 19.7% variance!

Unvaccinated Children are Healthier

Similar disparities are present in the category of chronic illness, a major concern among vaccine skeptics. It turns out that vaccines aren’t exactly as safe as the medical system claims they are, according to the data. When answering whether or not their children had a chronic illness or neurological deficit, an astounding 92.4% of parents with unvaccinated children responded “no,” while only 7.6% responded “yes.”

In the vaccinated category, a shocking 43.1% of parents responded with “yes” to this same question − a sixfold increase compared to parents of unvaccinated children. In other words, vaccinated children are six times more likely than unvaccinated children to develop a chronic disease. In some cases it could be a neurological problem, and either could follow them the rest of their lives.

“Remember, to have ‘statistical significance,’ you have to have an ‘n’ of 32,” Dr. Buttar explained to me about the scientific legitimacy of these figures. “In other words, the sample size has to be at least 32 to be ‘statistically significant.’ The ‘n’ here is around 1,000 − and it’s increasing daily!”

https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/are-vaccines-safe-survey/

Other references:
http://www.fourteenstudies.org/ourstudies.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/uncove...ection-deeply-flawed-vaccine-policies/5491987
http://www.organiclifestylemagazine.com/vaccine-propaganda-vs-vaccine-truth
http://www.nvic.org/PDFs/IOM/NVIC-BLF-IOM-Stmt-2-2012.aspx
http://whale.to/vaccine/vaccine_autism_proven.html

The Unvaccinated Endanger Others

We love to scapegoat the unvaccinated. We make them responsible for the spread of diseases (witness the media coverage following the Disneyland outbreak). We threaten to charge the unvaccinated for medical services if they contract a “vaccine preventable illness” or ‘cause’ another to contract an illness. We discuss removing children from parents who don’t vaccinate, and prevent unvaccinated children from attending school and withholding public resources simply because they are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.

The idea that the only plausible reason people contract infectious disease is because other parents don’t get their children vaccinated is a powerful marketing strategy, but scientifically flawed. The fact is:

Vaccine immunity is an artificial immunity and is not life long. It can be as short as six months or not at all.
Millions of adults do not get vaccinated.
Vaccine failure is very real.
We administer live virus vaccines to millions of children every year and we know that the transmission of disease occurs as a result of close personal contact with the recently vaccinated through viral shedding.
Media fails to acknowledge that ‘herd immunity’ is a theoretical concept that in practice has repeatedly failed “to take effect” even when rates higher than the targets have been achieved.
Diseases as measles are not “vaccine preventable”. They are simply vaccine delayed. For many, the vaccine delays getting the illness until later in life, often with even more serious consequences.

Why does anyone get sick? Why do some people get sick and others don’t? It’s more than a question of vaccinations. When we reduce our inquiry to whether someone is vaccinated or not we oversimplify human health and do a disservice to everyone. Immunity is substantially more complex than simply the number of antibodies in the blood.

http://vaccinechoicecanada.com/parents-speak/ted-kuntzs-complaint-to-the-cbc/

Panel of 120 Italian Doctors: "Unvaccinated Children Healthier"
Following is a rudimentary English translation of the original article from Italy:

Bologna, October 28, 2015 - "Unvaccinated children are healthier." That is the conclusion of more than 120 doctors, after weeks of debate and controversy on the subject. They submitted an open letter to the Higher Institute of Health; the Italian equivalent of the CDC. The petitioner, the cardiologist Roberto Gava, a member of the 'Society person-centered medicine' of Bologna, supported by more than two dozen of Emilia-Romagna and Marche professionals.

The entire document builds on the statements of the president of the Institute, Professor Walter Ricciardi, who recently supported the safety of childhood vaccines: "Out of 19 million vaccinations there were only 5 cases of severe reactions, which are not life-threatening."

Not exactly, for the signatories of the letter reveal the existence of "adverse reactions which amount to thousands of surveys per year."

Not why they want to be classified as of no supporters, no ifs, ands or buts. And in fact the premise make it clear that, nowadays, any doctor comes "common sense" and "a minimum of scientific knowledge" can not be "against pediatric vaccines."

But then they put on the table their experience in the field. And that "medical practice specializing" next to the sick child, not "hasty but made of observation and listening, consideration of what he communicates to us and subliminal and what parents tell." And all this "has opened our eyes."

The conclusion is bound to create a sensation: "Unvaccinated children will undoubtedly appear and healthier overall, less prone to infectious diseases, especially airway, less prone to intestinal disorders and chronic diseases, less prone to neurological and behavioral disorders and poor drug consumers and health interventions."

And to prove the assertions, the doctors are ready to take part in a survey organized by the Higher Institute of Health that will rigorously compare the state of health of children fully immunized with that of never-vaccinated children.

They illustrated their detailed proposal articulated in fourteen points. Ranges from the customization required of the administration times of treatments, from tasks that do apply must fulfill the need to overcome the vaccination requirement.

"If we want to serve the truth we have only one option; all unite around a scientific table and discuss the matter with an open heart, free from conflict of interest. This is the good of Medicine, the rest is blind coercion and confrontation front that sooner or later it will turn against us all."

Original article: Lettera aperta di 120 medici: "Più sani i bimbi non vaccinati" (A better translation is welcome.)

http://www.quotidiano.net/cronaca/vaccini-medici-contrari-1.1429559

 

[angelatc]

A questionnaire is not a study. Nor is a petition. Nor is a survey. Still waiting for you to show me the studies that your original article says we should examine if we aren't convinced, because I am not convinced.

 

[angelatc]

I'm fine with this. She just needs to knock off the insane level of insults. She should at least get a warning for what she has done in this thread and eventually banned if she keeps insulting people. Her behavior in this thread absolutely should not glossed over and nothing at all done about it. She's been doing this for years I'm sure you can literally find over 1,000 examples.

I have stopped caring about infractions and the other petty nonsense precisely because DonnaY is allowed to troll the health forums without actually engaging in actual discussion. The cycle is always the same:

She posts something, usually something she's posted before.
I question the data - point out the flaws in the conclusion, the data or the methods
She posts something unrelated, ignoring the initial response.
2-7 other people will join the thread, yammering about "government science" and "Paid shills"
Someone will eventually post a wall of text that includes something about autism.
Someone else will point out that the data is flawed, and why.
Mre yammering about "government science" and "paid shills"

The threats of doxxing are new. So congratulations on taking the discourse to an all-time new low. That should be a perma-ban. Any other forum would kick a person off forever for that.

This place is more of an addiction than anything. There's no political value left here. The Facebook groups are far more productive, and Bran has made it clear that he doesn't value volunteer efforts as much as he values her brand of "promotion of liberty" via the conspiracy nonsense and endless promotion of quackery, so those of you worried that I am keeping secret files of some sort can rest assured it will be a cold day in hell before I lift another finger for any of the efforts the try to get off the ground here.

Like that's gonna happen anyway....

But while I am here, when she posts the quackery garbage, I'm going to point it out. The messages she puts out are literally dangerous, not just wrong.

 

[dannno]

Zippy just posted the spoiler. Darn you Zippy!

No true prospective, randomized and controlled study of health outcomes of vaccinated people versus unvaccinated has ever been conducted in the U.S. by CDC or any other agency in the 50 years or more of an accelerating schedule of vaccinations.

Have you ever thought to yourself, "Hmmmm, why wouldn't they do a study on that?"

If you haven't, then you still don't get it.

 

[angelatc]

Lol she's going so far as to side with Zippy. The most obviously paid troll in the history of RPF.

This is an example of the types of discussion that should be banned in these forums.

All Zippy did was post the study that someone else referenced, and highlighted what it actually said. Can't refute that? Insist there are paid trolls, because when the facts don't fit a narrative, an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory will always work fill in the dead spaces.

 

[dannno]

A questionnaire is not a study. Nor is a petition. Nor is a survey. Still waiting for you to show me the studies that your original article says we should examine if we aren't convinced, because I am not convinced.

If no studies have ever been conducted in 50 years on something as important as the health outcomes of those who receive vaccines vs. those who don't, then you should ask yourself "why?". When health questionnaires and surveys come out that show the outcome in the OP, that should be a good indication as to why those studies have never been funded.

 

[angelatc]

Have you ever thought to yourself, "Hmmmm, why wouldn't they do a study on that?"

If you haven't, then you still don't get it.

Of course I have, but I'm not sure which they you're talking about. The reason that the anti-vax cult has not done any studies is because every time they do, they can't get the results they want. Hence, there's no evidence to support their hypotheses, which in turn leads to the conspiracy theories.

If they are the government, the answer is two-fold. First and foremost, it would be a huge ethical violation to do a double blind study on children that involved intentionally exposing children to various diseases much less intentionally unprotecting half of them.

Second - they do. In this day and age, there are huge populations where the vaccine rates dramatically rises in than a decade, giving researchers the opportunity to watch for things like, say, an increase in autism that coincides with the increase in the percentage of the population vaccinated. No such link has ever been found. At some point a sane person would realize there's a reason for that, while an ideologue simply inserts a conspiracy theory into the conversation.

 

[angelatc]

If no studies have ever been conducted in 50 years on something as important as the health outcomes of those who receive vaccines vs. those who don't, then you should ask yourself "why?". When health questionnaires and surveys come out that show the outcome in the OP, that should be a good indication as to why those studies have never been funded.

Answered above, but again - the survey posted above was taken from a sample of parents who frequent an anti-vaccine site, not a random sample of parents in general. The answers they gave were subjective - the maladies the parents observed and reported were never confirmed by any official medical diagnosis. In a real clinical study, measures are taken to eliminate as much of the biases as possible. There is nothing at all unbiased about this survey.

ANd it's just ridiculous that she's still allowed to troll the forums with it without being able to defend the methods and/or the conclusions.

 

[Anti Federalist]

There's no value in her posts

Decided by whom?

You?

This is an unhealthy obsession.

Put her on ignore and leave it alone.

 

[donnay]

Produce these, you (mod edit) anti-vaxxer you. Then after you do, be prepared to actually discuss them. Every single "study" you are going to link to has been addressed and debunked here multiple times.

(mod edit)

A questionnaire is not a study. Nor is a petition. Nor is a survey. Still waiting for you to show me the studies that your original article says we should examine if we aren't convinced, because I am not convinced.

I don't like to discuss much with you because there is really NO discussion when all you do is hurl insults and act like a psycho. Posted above is an Italian study but here are more comparative studies to help you to calm down. You have to click on the links to read them.

How Does Vaccinated Children’s Health Compare to Unvaccinated Children?

While there have been no official US government-sponsored studies comparing the health of vaccinated to unvaccinated children, several independently funded studies have been done in the US and overseas. The majority of these studies have been conducted abroad, but many involve American children.

What do these studies show? The research demonstrates conclusively that unvaccinated children enjoy far superior health when compared to those vaccinated. Unvaccinated children experience almost no incidence of autism, autoimmune disorders, asthma, allergies, diabetes and other common childhood diseases which have reached epidemic proportions in recent years.

The Research Studies

One of the most comprehensive studies is an ongoing comparative survey by German homeopathic physician Andreas Bachmair. Bachmair is conducting an independent study comparing the health of vaccinated to unvaccinated children with 17,461 participants.

This research has found a significant increase in the following diseases in those vaccinated: asthma, allergies, bronchitis, otitis media (ear infections), hay fever, herpes, neurodermatitis, hyperactivity, scoliosis, epilepsy, autoimmune disorders, thyroid disease, autism and diabetes. Furthermore, Bachmair discovered three other studies which substantiated his findings. To see the chart with the comparison in diseases, visit this link provided by the Vermont

Coalition for Vaccine Choice.

For comprehensive survey results for this published study, see this link.

The majority of those who participated were Americans, with 25 percent of participants comprised of Germans. Ninety-nine percent of those who chose not to vaccinate their children reported to be happy with their decision. Because this study is ongoing, study numbers will vary depending on the report viewed. [1]

Bachmair’s reports further demonstrated that the unvaccinated children very rarely suffered from the following heath conditions: dyslexia, speech delays, bed wetting, celiac disease, gluten sensitivity, GERDs. [2]

In a Salzberger study, of 1,004 unvaccinated children, zero children had asthma, compared to 8-12 percent of the vaccinated population; 1.2 percent of unvaccinated children suffered with dermatitis while 10-20 percent of children vaccinated experienced dermatitis; three percent of unvaccinated children compared to 25 percent of vaccinated experienced allergies; and less than one percent of unvaccinated children were diagnosed with ADHD, compared to 5-10 percent of those vaccinated.

A study in Guinea-Bissau, West Africa, which studied the children of 15,000 mothers between 1990-1996, demonstrated that the death rate for children vaccinated against diphtheria, tetanus and whooping cough was double for those who had been vaccinated.

A New Zealand study involved 254 children in which 133 children were vaccinated while 121 remained unvaccinated. This comparative study found that the unvaccinated children enjoyed far superior health when the following diseases were studied: tonsillitis, asthma, allergic rashes, SIDS, ear infections and hyperactivity.

Vaccinated children experienced 2 to 10 times higher rates of illness compared to those unvaccinated. [3]

Research On Autism And Neurological Disorders

In the Amish community of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, one in 4,875 children were diagnosed with autism. Of the four total Amish children diagnosed, one had been exposed to high levels of mercury from a power plant and three others, including one adopted outside of the community, had been vaccinated. This rate is extremely low to non-existent compared to those vaccinated. Similarly, the Amish of Ohio show that one out of 10,000 children are diagnosed with autism. In the general US population, one in 45 children is now being diagnosed with autism. [4, 5]

In a Homefirst Health Services survey in which 90 percent of children have had no vaccinations, none of the 35,000 children had an autism diagnosis. Furthermore, these children had extremely low asthma rates.

In a Cal-Oregon survey of 9,000 boys, those children vaccinated experienced a 155 percent greater chance of having a neurological disorder such as autism or ADHD.
[6]

More Science On Vaccines

In Sally Fallon’s Nourishing Tradition’s Book of Baby and Childcare, five studies are reported, including the Africa and German study previously discussed. The studies all conclude that unvaccinated children enjoy better health than those who have been vaccinated.

A 2004 British study of 8,000 unvaccinated children, which included medical documentation for each child, revealed that vaccinated children experienced two to five times more illness and disorders compared to unvaccinated children. [7]

In a 1997 New Zealand study, 1265 children were surveyed. Of those children who were vaccinated, 23 percent were reported to suffer from asthma and 30 percent suffered from allergies, compared to none in the unvaccinated group. [8]

A 1992 New Zealand study of 495 children concluded that vaccinated children suffer far more compared to unvaccinated children. Diseases studied included tonsillitis, ear infections, sleep apnea, hyperactivity and epilepsy. Vaccinated children suffered up to ten times more from these illnesses. [9]
Conclusion

While government groups maintain that no studies have been done to compare the health of vaccinated to unvaccinated, the reality is that several comparative studies have been completed by independent researchers in the US and in other countries.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention refuses to conduct such studies, claiming they would be unethical to perform. In reality, these studies could easily be performed, since many educated parents choose to not vaccinate their children.

The evidence is overwhelming. Studies completed in New Zealand, Germany, Africa, Great Britain and the United States have come to the same conclusion. Unvaccinated children enjoy far superior health on all measures of disease entities.

References:

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/survey-results…
http://vactruth.com/2014/02/26/unvaccinated-children-health
http://www.vaxchoicevt.com/science/studies-comparing…
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/quick-compare-2/
http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/2015/12/cdc-1-in-45-children…
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/quick-compare-2/
McKeever and TM. American Journal of Public Health. June 2004. V 94.
Kemp, T. et al. Epidemiology. November 1997. 678-80.
Fallon, Sally, Cowan, Thomas, MD. The Nourishing Traditions Book of Baby and Childcare. New Trends Publishing, 2013. 112, 317.

https://vactruth.com/2016/06/03/vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated/

 

[Zippyjuan]

I don't like to discuss much with you because there is really NO discussion when all you do is hurl insults and act like a psycho. Posted above is an Italian study but here are more comparative studies to help you to calm down. You have to click on the links to read them.


https://vactruth.com/2016/06/03/vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated/

I like how the article cites more of their own articles as sources. The "New Zealand Study" was not a real study but a poll among members of an anti-vaccination group. It did not conduct any randomized studies.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/studies-prove-doubt-unvaccinated-children-healthier/

In 1992, the Immunization Awareness Society (IAS) conducted a survey to examine the health of New Zealand’s children. Unsurprisingly, the results of their study indicated that unvaccinated children were far healthier than vaccinated children.

Questionnaires were given out to IAS members, their friends and their associates asking various health questions. A total of 245 families returned their questionnaires, giving the researchers a total of 495 children surveyed. Of these children, 226 were vaccinated and 269 were unvaccinated.

The Andreas Bachmair "study" has the same problems. His was an anonymous online survey of people who visited his website. http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/08/31/an-anti-vaccine-administered-survey-back/

The survey begins with this introduction:

For statistical evaluation of the state of health of entirely unvaccinated children we request you to fill out the following form. The data will be published anonymously and handled with utmost confidentiality. The results help us to acquire accurate information about the health of unvaccinated children

.

None of them are scientific studies.