MO - Women refused treatment at hospital, then arrested, then dies in jail.

[tttppp]

Insurance won't cover a Naturopath either.

Its pretty stupid that our government has determined that it is more important to insure harmful chemicals than it is to insure healthy herbs and supplements.

 

[Son of Detroit]

Whenever I read about people on here pushing alternative medicine, I can't help but think about the Seinfeld episode when George visits an alternative healer because modern medicine is too expensive.

 

[donnay]

Its pretty stupid that our government has determined that it is more important to insure harmful chemicals than it is to insure healthy herbs and supplements.

It's not stupid-- it is doing exactly what they want it to do.

You should check Codex Alimentarius threat.

 

[dannno]

Whenever I read about people on here pushing alternative medicine, I can't help but think about the Seinfeld episode when George visits an alternative healer because modern medicine is too expensive.

It might be fun to make fun of things we aren't very familiar with, but I don't think comedic value necessarily has a very strong bearing on effectiveness.

 

[Son of Detroit]

Comic relief is always good, no matter what it's about.

 

[Revolution9]

How about people in wheelchairs don't need to go to jail for trying to 'trespass' at a hospital?

It would be a lot cheaper for the state if the cops just drove her home and let her find her own way back to the hospital.

That's the bottom line right there. These goons are authoritarian automatons who have no respect for the individual human spirit. This comes back to the drug war as far as cops attitudes towards civilians are. We are all lying and on drugs..they just have to find them however they wish. It seeps out of their core and becomes their pores. They develop an ego trip and then they are in danger of themselves and to everyone they come into contact with in the course of their shenanigans, as it can no longer be justifiably called duty.

Rev9

 

[PaulConventionWV]

You can't advertise the benefits of acupuncture? I guess its only a matter of time before my acupuncturist goes to jail for a thousand different reasons.

One thing I hate is the propaganda all these insurance companies promote. Every time there is a commercial for their product, they say the xyz condition has no cure, so buy our product and live with it the rest of your life. How do they know their is no cure? Have they researched all the known treatments? They should not be allowed to state that there is no cure.

They usually say there is no KNOWN cure, but yeah, we're on the same page there.

 

[pacelli]

As much as we worship Doctors and the Medical system, they are reactive and treat obvious emergencies. They are not so good at pro-active treatment or diagnosis. Who pays does not matter.

Unfortunately this is true. EDs see everything and have to treat the worst first, regardless of insurance or lack thereof. That's why they call it an emergency department. You don't have vascular surgeons sitting in the ED waiting for people to come in with a thrombosis. You have vascular surgeons in the OR, in clinic, or (rarely) at home wearing a pager and waiting for a call from the ED~!!

I wonder if any of the 3 hospitals EDs bothered to consult anyone from vascular even though the ultrasound tests were negative. I wonder if they even bothered doing a CT w/ contrast? I sure as hell would have.

Of course going to 3 different EDs means 3 different sets of records. Its like starting all over again as far as diagnosis is concerned.

Complicated case and I think they fucked up by calling the police.

 

[kezt777]

All I'm judging is the continual increase in the propensity of cops to throw people in jail for the slightest thing.

The women was dying, she knew something was wrong, and they arrested her, threw her in the clink, where she, surprise, died.

I don't have all the answers, never claimed to have all the answers and never claimed sainthood either.

I'm just sure of one thing: I don't like the idea of people being thrown in prison for making a scene because they're dying and nobody seems able or willing to help.

If that makes me a communist or some such, well, so be it then.

Not to mention, my family just came through an ugly, close encounter with the hospital/medical/police complex and it's left a bitter taste in my mouth.

I understand. What I have found up here is that more and more hospital staff are using personal judgement calls rather than medical judgement. My bf, for example - he looks like a rather rough and tough dude (he was 20 years ago, but not anymore lol) and he was burned in a FIRE in November last year. His arm was a total mess, and he had burns on his face stomach and legs as well. Second and third degree covering large patches (fuel fire, fuel that burns at 2000 degrees C). He was given morphine by the ambulance staff, and morphine in the hospital to dull the pain - but send home after they wrapped up his hands... with NOTHING. No pain killers. He was not in his right mind after 4 hits of morphine and when we were on the way home, I asked him what prescription he got. None. WTF? They had told him to use tylenol. WTF? I called the hospital to phone in a pain killer prescription at my pharmacy and they prescribed --- tylenol 3. Are you fricken kidding me? Would any of the people treating him want tylenol 3 as a pain killer?? When the morphine wore off, he was in agony. I cant prove it, but I really felt like they judged that he was a person who could become addicted or abuse something like percocet and would not give it to him. I was furious.

Two other times last fall, before the fire, the same kind of thing happened. He developed an infection in his neck where a huge lump grew and it was very painful. He was told to take ibuprophen. When being treated, one nurse literally ripped the packing out of his neck (after the doc had cut out a yucky growth) and gave him no warning. I was there, I saw it happen. All the doc had told her to do was put a new poultice on it. He almost hit the ceiling from the sudden shocking pain. She said his pain killers should have dulled the pain. he said 'what pain killers? Ive been here 5 days in a row and no one will give me any'. She just said 'oh'. It was bizarre. But after the fire incident, I was enraged. I could post a photo here of his arm to show you that it was not a normal little burn, his whole arm was disgusting and horrible - but I think it could actually make someone ill. It was bad. But no pain killers - why? Because he looks like a biker and might do something bad with them?

During both of us having medical issues at ER, we witnessed homeless people coming in and complaining of various ailments. Our nurses, both times, confided that this happens all the time and rolled their eyes. I know it's something they deal with - homeless people coming in to complain of illness so they can get a bed for the night, but it's almost like that makes them lump everyone together. you cant do that because that is a personal response, not a medical response. Yes at least one hospital did an ultrasound on the woman in this story, but by their own admission that does not always find clots, yet it does not appear that more was done. Not that they stated in the article. No the woman was not being sent a bill for her tests, but I have heard RP numerous times talking about how before medicare and medicaid, there were not people wandering around the streets being denied medical care... and yes there are people who abuse the system but guess what - i just told you about how people at my small hospital in an area servicing only 100,000 people gets homeless people looking for beds and they are TURNED AWAY too. Why? Because even in Canada with our 'free' healthcare - IT'S NOT FREE. Having universal health care does not give homeless people a bed because, for example, most hospitals have empty wings and beds in them that no staff are hired to watch over, so they say 'we have no beds'. That's not true, ever. It's 'we are not allowed to have the staff to open all of the beds in this hospital'. That is the true reason. So while everyone in here combats back and forth about whether this woman should have been treated or not - she probably would not have been in my canadian hospital either. I dont know if they would have called the police, but they have security guards now that may have escorted her from the building and if that wasnt working, they could call the police too. To me the issue is the personal judgement calls of hospital staff as opposed to medical calls. That's dangerous business. Ive had to go to the nurse's desk in the past and BEG to be moved up on the triage list, trying to explain that I was in severe pain and had never felt like that before, explained to look up my hospital records because I rarely go to ER unless something is really wrong, before finally getting moved up a few spots. It's a precarious situation at the best of times.

I have also learned in the past couple of weeks that medical staff are using their personal opinions to influence others. First Aid is needed at my job and we update it every 3 years. This time, I think the paramedic teacher was an idealist on the loose. He actually sat there and told everyone in class that if you do not get a hepatitis shot before going on holiday to certain places, and get Hep and come back with it, you will not be treated in Canada for 'free'. WTF? that is absolutely untrue. What about people who are allergic to the shots, let alone those who choose not to take them? He also told everyone that it is a law to get those shots, so it's illegal to go to mexico, etc, without the shots. If this is true, it hasnt hit the news and I cannot find info about it anywhere. we have ads on tv all the time trying to get people to take the shots, but no mention of it being a legal requirement. It's bonkers that this guy was sitting there spouting off.

But then he also went on about how when he was a medic in calgary, a homeless diabetic would habitually lay down on the train tracks, someone would call 911, and the ambulance would show up and take him to the hospital, where he would tell them he was diabetic, they would test him, and he would be given insulin and a short supply of it to take out with him. When those ran out, he would do the train track thing again. I guess our universal system aint that hot after all, eh? It costs the taxpayers $300 a shot to pick up a patient, plus mileage to the hospital, and this particular man gets it on a regular basis without contributing. But there are many who do not. Ive seen/heard it with my own eyes. He probably learned that going directly into the ER didnt get him anywhere, so he tried the more drastic route and found that it worked. The medications are SO expensive up here (not as bad as the US I gather, but still really high, I think over $100 for the test strips for diabetics let alone the insulin itself), so the guy found a loophole. Most people cannot find one.

 

[ctnjason]

Im not going to take a side in this just yet BUT i will say this, the media has a way of making hysteria and slanted views ( imagine that ). I work in an extremely busy ER and every single day there are patients that literally come EVERY day. Some of them come multiple times a day. These patients cannot just be made to leave. If they are drunk, or say the right things, they must stay until they are sober and/ or get thousands of dollars worth of test / imaging to rule out what they are complaining of. We have drug seekers who will not get what they are looking for at one hospital and go right to another one across town. The problem with this story is I believe we are not getting the WHOLE truth. I have a hard time believing the hospital neglected her BUT also the facts on this woman arent out in the open. Was she a "frequent flier" at the hospital? Did she have a primary care physician? Did she say oh i cant walk i cant walk but hospital security cameras can show her outside smoking cigarettes (ive seen this many times at work......along with i have belly pain but i order chinese takeout from my ER room). The actual facts just dont add up to me and i have a hard time believing the hospital failed to provide her with adequate testing and treatment. She died of a pulmonary embolism..... There are MANY factors that can or cannot show on test. I think its tragic she died and i feel sorry for her kids but hospitals nowadays OVER order exams for 2 reasons.....1) Government $$$$$ and 2) fear of being sued. Im pretty sure they ran some test on her, she was clinically stable, they released her, she refused to leave and was agitated, and had to be removed from the hospital. There is NO WAY she showed even the slightest chance of a pulmonary embolism and the hospital released her. It just doesnt add up. Given no real medical history from the media and no idea what really happened, blow out your torches and put down the pitchforks for now against the hospital. If it is proven the hospital neglected to adequately treat her with information gathered from medical protocols and guidelines, by all means throw them under the bus.

 

[tttppp]

They usually say there is no KNOWN cure, but yeah, we're on the same page there.

I have definitely heard them say in commercials there is NO CURE, they leave out the KNOWN part, at least most commercials. Thats what pisses me off about them. They're spreading complete lies about conditions to get people to buy their medicine. Instead of looking for cures, people just believe there is no cure, and ask for the medication because thats what they heard on tv. There's no cure so we have to settle for this crap. Which is basically every drug company's slogan, "there is no cure, so buy our crap."

 

[AME3]

 

[AME3]

Unfortunately its almost impossible to save someone who has no money. Acupuncture cost money. Along with the herbs. And almost no insI was being sarcastic...."and ONE of her kids....." urance covers acupuncture...no insurance covers herbs. There really needs to be a system in place where doctors/acupuncturist/herbologists are motivated to provide some level of pro bono work.

I was being sarcastic...."and ONE of her kids....."

 

[tttppp]

I was being sarcastic...."and ONE of her kids....."

I figured that.

 

[AME3]

....no offense intended,