MO - Women refused treatment at hospital, then arrested, then dies in jail.

[Domalais]

http://www.virgingalactic.com/

Scaled Composites is owned by Northrup Grumman.

http://www.spaceadventures.com/

These guys fly on Russian spaceflights.

Their two plans for their own designs are partnerships with other companies... one is NASA funded, the other is Russian funded.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Scaled Composites is owned by Northrup Grumman.




These guys fly on Russian spaceflights.

Their two plans for their own designs are partnerships with other companies... one is NASA funded, the other is Russian funded.

We might have been off this damn rock by now had it not been for government mucking things up with a Cold War, "my dick's bigger than your dick" space race.

 

[RickyJ]

Some say how could God send people to hell. He doesn't, they send themselves there by being utterly evil bastards. I hear a lot of people say most people are good, I use to think that myself as well, but now I think I am wrong, most people appear to only care about themselves.

 

[pcosmar]

These guys fly on Russian spaceflights.

Their two plans for their own designs are partnerships with other companies... one is NASA funded, the other is Russian funded.

Actually,, that ended in 2010.
The point was that there is a market for space tourism.


personally, I believe there are vast resources waiting to be tapped.
but US and other space programs have been NOTHING but military.

That is why I gave up hope on it in the 70s.

oh,, and I hadn't heard that Virgin Galactic had been bought up by NG. But a search shows it is so.

 

[angelatc]

If the doctors had specialized in Chinese traditional medicine, they would have been able to look at her tongue and identify the problem. In a case of blood clots they would not have given her a blood thinner. Blood clots form when your body does not have enough blood, gets dry and forms clumps. The solution is to create more blood with the help of herbs. Herbologist know how to do this, doctors don't.

The protocol should be changed. Our medical system should be based on chinese traditional medicine where the issue is some form of chronic illness like this one. Western medicine does not fix chronic illnesses.

It's a free market. You go to China and get treated with herbs and needles, but I'm going to hang here with the Westerners. (And her DVT probably wasn't a chronic condition.)

 

[donnay]

It's a free market. You go to China and get treated with herbs and needles, but I'm going to hang here with the Westerners. (And her DVT probably wasn't a chronic condition.)

There you go making ASSumptions. It was chronic enough to kill her--blood clots just don't, all of the sudden, appear.

Oh and about the MRI: http://www.tree.com/health/deep-vein-thrombosis-diagnosis-magnetic-resonance-imaging.aspx

MRIs are an effective method of diagnosing DVT. However, while MRIs allow doctors to simultaneously inspect both legs, some drawbacks to this diagnostic procedure include the following:

MRI equipment isn't always readily available in some areas.
MRIs are expensive, which can be especially problematic for patients who do not have health insurance or who have inadequate insurance coverage.
MRIs cannot be used on patients who have certain types of implants, including pacemakers.
People who are very claustrophobic may not be willing to undergo an MRI. Luckily, however, open MRI machines can often solve this problem.

Making a DVT Diagnosis with MRI Images

Once you have completed your MRI, a radiologist analyzes your scans to check them for blood clots. He will report his findings back to your doctor. If DVT is diagnosed, your doctor will determine the proper method of treatment, which may include anticoagulants or surgery.

Free market you say? Hahahahahahaha! That's rich. It's crony capitalism. You neocons have got to learn that we haven't, in our lifetimes, seen a free market, just the appearance of one that many fall for hook, line, and sinker. When governments regulate business, there is absolutely nothing "free" about it.

 

[tttppp]

It's a free market. You go to China and get treated with herbs and needles, but I'm going to hang here with the Westerners. (And her DVT probably wasn't a chronic condition.)

Thats your choice. If you want to live with whatever condition you have for the rest of your life, thats you choice.

And the woman's condition was chronic. You don't develop blood clots overnight. It takes years for your blood level to get low enough to develop blood clots.

 

[tttppp]

I can't + rep you enough for standing up to the "conventional wisdom" of modern medicine, which is all bullshit. I am very interested in Chinese tradition medicine as well as other forms of "alternative medicine". What bothers me the most is when people say that, if that stuff actually worked, it wouldn't be called "alternative." Those people forget to take into account the fact that only allopathic forms of medicine are funded by the government, and the FDA will only approve those forms of medicine. No others are allowed to compete. Accupuncture, kinesiology, and chiropractic have all overcome this bias to some degree, although it will never be completely overcome as long as we do NOT have a free market in healthcare. That is why "alternative" medicine is alternative. If we had a free market, allopathic medicine would be the "loony fringe" stuff, and many alternative types would be commonplace.

You should definitely try Chinese traditional medicine some day. It can extend your life and improve the quality of you life dramatically if you have health problems. Just be careful though. Most acupuncturists (especially in America) don't know what your doing. Additionally, many acupuncturists claim to specialize in Chinese traditional medicine but don't actually practice it. Unfortunately there's no real certification that says you know Chinese traditional medicine in America. The basics you should look for are: the acupuncturist should be able to diagnose your condition by looking at your tongue. If they can't do that, they don't practice Chinese traditional medicine. Also, they should be confident they can fix your condition. If they can't do that, then look elsewhere.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

A developed conclusion that some of his supporters are as selective in their support as they are in their understanding of the principles he promotes.

Still not sure what you're talking about. My post had nothing to do with that.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

So is the unjustified hate that some foment daily.

No idea what you're talking about.

 

[tttppp]

That is irrelevant. In a free market a hospital would tell them there is nothing they can do and ask them to leave. If they didn't have a place to go they would suggest the closest religious or otherwise voluntary non-state funded homeless shelter. If they still wouldn't leave then they would use private security to escort them off of the premises. What they wouldn't do is put a crippled mother in jail.




Bull fucking shit you choose your own doctors, you are living in a dream land. Your insurance company chooses them. Your insurance company paid millions of dollars to elect Obama, you actually believe there is ANY semblance to the free market within our health care system?! Free market health care is a lot more than people paying for their own care, it would allow people to pay for WHATEVER care they wanted HOWEVER they wanted rather than the government contrived medical establishment that tells us what treatments we are allowed to have.

I pay for my own insurance and I get a list of like two doctors I can see. I pay for my insurance through my company because it is all tax deductible for me and my company. If I could get tax deductible insurance outside my company or better yet if they decreased the tax rate significantly and ended the tax deductible corporate health care system we have then I would opt for a higher salary and I would get my own catastrophic health insurance plan. Then I would go see doctors who utilize the types of medicines that work best for me (natural medicines). They would get more patients because the government wouldn't prevent them from advertising their medical claims, so the market can test those claims and bring the prices down through competition.

Right now there is zero competition because the FDA and the AMA completely control medicine, and they are run by the same people who funded Obama's campaign. Look it up.

Our medical system is basically a communist system. Doctors don't compete with each other. They offer terrible quality with high prices. Typically you wait for hours just to see the doctor 5 minutes. After talking to the doctor for 5 minutes, he'll spend 30 minutes writing a novel about what you said.

The so called "alternative" treatments don't have insurance coverage most of the time, so they have to compete. Unfortunately thats not enough in America. People are brainwashed into thinking alternative treatments don't work, so most people will accept crappy service from alternate providers. Thats why its so hard to find a good acupuncturist. So many bad ones are able to make a living because most patients will just go to them just for the experience, so they can tell their friends they do acupuncture. That said, the alternative providers do keep their costs reasonable. You'll never find one that scams you for thousands of dollars for a 5 minute visit like doctors do all the time.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I would also be free to build my own space program.

Both outcomes are equally likely.

The difference is that one happened, the other didn't. I think it's obvious which one.

 

[dannno]

Cry me a river, Danno ... You can speak for yourself, yet have no clue what I am capable of.

What? That was not even a response to my post.

What I'm saying is that if I setup a medical office with the types of healers and medicine specialists that I liked and advertised the medical benefits and then setup an insurance provider for like-minded patients and they were able to get tax deductible premiums just like everybody else then the Feds would come in and shut me down for 10,000 different reasons.

That isn't freedom. That isn't capitalism. You seem to believe that capitalism is playing by the current rules that we have setup with all the benefits for corporations and then taking away any government benefits that poor people might receive. That is corporatism. You are closer to being communist than ANYBODY posting in this entire thread because you don't believe in freedom. You don't even know what it is. You support the government holding a gun to my head and playing by their rules rather than letting me choose my own life path, and then when I complain about said government restrictions on my personal life you say that I am whining.

Well FUCK that shit. I would rather the government steal $X of my money and give it to poor people than steal $X of my money and give it to rich people. Why? Because rich people only deserve more money if they earn it. Poor people are less fortunate and I would rather give my excesses to them, especially in a free market where IT IS MY CHOICE to give it to them. That isn't communist, that is simply not having a grudge against those who are less fortunate. I really hope you aren't Christian because that would be the ultimate hypocrisy. You are ok with the government stealing my liberty and property and giving it to rich people and then you play it off like poor people are just whining when in fact everybody is getting fucked over by government protected financial institutions and that is fucking disgusting.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

It's a free market. You go to China and get treated with herbs and needles, but I'm going to hang here with the Westerners. (And her DVT probably wasn't a chronic condition.)

It is not a free market. You can't possibly believe that. Socialized medicine? Regulations? FDA? What do you mean, free market? Explain yourself.

 

[dannno]

It's a free market. You go to China and get treated with herbs and needles, but I'm going to hang here with the Westerners. (And her DVT probably wasn't a chronic condition.)

The hell it is!!

You can't advertise the medical benefits of eastern medicine because they aren't "FDA approved". You can advertise the supposed benefits of western medicine because they are "FDA approved". Guess which one costs 100x or 1000x more in ACTUAL costs?? Which one costs more for me, as a corporate insurance holder, to go to?

I'm sorry but that isn't a free market. I could be using the cheaper alternative for cheaper, but instead it costs more because of the FDA and AMA.

In a free market my company would give me a higher salary instead of cheap health insurance and I could have more money in pocket to save and still pay for catastrophic insurance.

 

[tttppp]

The hell it is!! How do you not know how corporatism works yet?

You can't advertise the medical benefits of eastern medicine because they aren't "FDA approved". You can advertise the supposed benefits of western medicine because they are "FDA approved". Guess which one costs 100x or 1000x more in ACTUAL costs?? Which one costs more for me, as a corporate insurance holder, to go to?

I'm sorry but that isn't a free market. I could be using the cheaper alternative for cheaper, but instead it costs more because of the FDA and AMA.

In a free market my company would give me a higher salary instead of cheap health insurance and I could have more money in pocket to save and still pay for catastrophic insurance.

You can't advertise the benefits of acupuncture? I guess its only a matter of time before my acupuncturist goes to jail for a thousand different reasons.

One thing I hate is the propaganda all these insurance companies promote. Every time there is a commercial for their product, they say the xyz condition has no cure, so buy our product and live with it the rest of your life. How do they know their is no cure? Have they researched all the known treatments? They should not be allowed to state that there is no cure.

 

[Domalais]

personally, I believe there are vast resources waiting to be tapped.
but US and other space programs have been NOTHING but military.

I don't think it would be that way if we didn't devote such a substantial portion of our GDP to the military. I think space flight would be mostly tech-oriented, sat launches and whatnot, but I don't think we would be putting any people into orbit.

 

[dannno]

You can't advertise the benefits of acupuncture? I guess its only a matter of time before my acupuncturist goes to jail for a thousand different reasons.

One thing I hate is the propaganda all these insurance companies promote. Every time there is a commercial for their product, they say the xyz condition has no cure, so buy our product and live with it the rest of your life. How do they know their is no cure? Have they researched all the known treatments? They should not be allowed to state that there is no cure.

I'm pretty sure you can't say that treatment ________ 'cures' condition ________ unless the FDA specifically approves it. Acupuncture is actually covered by many insurance providers as a form of 'therapy' rather than healing, which probably explains why there are so many bad ones out there. When your insurance company tells you that if you want acupuncture you must use a specific acupuncturist then that doesn't really give people the ability to shop around.

 

[tttppp]

I'm pretty sure you can't say that treatment ________ 'cures' condition ________ unless the FDA specifically approves it. Acupuncture is actually covered by many insurance providers as a form of 'therapy' rather than healing, which probably explains why there are so many bad ones out there. When your insurance company tells you that if you want acupuncture you must use a specific acupuncturist then that doesn't really give people the ability to shop around.

When I was doing acupuncture, I looked everywhere for insurance that covers acupuncture, but couldn't find anything. I know there are a few people who had acupuncture coverage. There is no decent insurance available for people without a job. You have to get a good job to get decent insurance, and even then most don't cover acupuncture. Also, there is no insurance that covers herbs. My acupuncturist told me the insurance companies don't know what to do with claims for herbs.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Insurance won't cover a Naturopath either.