MO - Women refused treatment at hospital, then arrested, then dies in jail.

[dannno]

They just ask that you sign a release form stating you refuse their treatement, and they do not have the ability to force you to sign anything.

They don't have the ability to force you to sign anything? So, what happens again if you leave the hospital without signing the paper?

 

[fisharmor]

I hate that you're making me defend the cops, because I hate them too. But seriously - a homeless woman laying on the floor screaming all night is probably just Friday in that world.

The thing I'm not getting is how you make it sound like this is OK.
If you hate the cops, why is this an excuse? The fact that they throw people screaming on piss-soaked concrete all night every single day is somehow supposed to excuse the fact that they ignored her cries of pain?
How is the idea that she might have been looking for narcotics from the hospitals an excuse? The fact that some people do this is somehow an excuse for a slipshod diagnosis?

Bad shit happens - I really do get that. What I don't get is how that becomes an out for people who are passively responsible for her death.
There's an opportunity in stories like this to explore how it could have been avoided. As long as the attitude of most people is "aw well, fuck it", then that review is never going to happen.

ETA:

The one thing that struck me as wrong was that the police said they guessed she was on drugs. I am guessing that a tox screen was one of the first things the hospital ran on her, so somebody somewhere knew she wasn't high. Of course, that doesn't mean they could have known she wasn't crazy though.

This actually does make it look like you want to review what went wrong, so maybe I misjudged.

 

[azxd]

You're the one with the broken sarcasm meter..

Look, the reason why AF is upset is because the medical establishment, our educational institutions and a large majority of the institutions we interact with on a daily basis are not only run like but are also aligned with the brutal police state. And it is growing. The police state is encroaching into nearly every facet and corner of our lives.

What we mean by things being run like the police state is that everything within these institutions is run on chain of command and every decision comes from their internal policies, internal policies that are intimately linked with the police state. Many of the internal policies are based on government regulations, so you can see this goes full circle. By supporting the actions of these institutions and the police state, you are supporting big, brutal, oppressive government that is not anything unlike the communism which you apparently oppose.

AF and others here are not supporting socialism, we are supporting freedom. Freedom to go back to practice medicine the way it used to be practiced where individuals like me and you get care from other individuals like Ron Paul or whoever we choose, not this "care" from oppressive institutions that are so intertwined with the over regulated insurance companies that have become overly large due to their intimate relationships with politicians in DC and don't give a rats ass about anybody.

And within all this preaching, you still failed to administer the correct diagnosis to the hospital

And I don't know what form of socialized medicine you subscribe to, but I choose my own doctors and pay my own bills, and yes I use insurance, because that is the way the current system works ... But I'm waiting for the day that it becomes a full on mandate ... Then I can use the liberal progressive tactics against those who support such things.

Cloward & Pivens ... Crash the entire system upon itself ... Everyone on the government dole is the only way to end this fiasco that has some upset, and screaming for equality.

Nothing is equal after you arrive on this planet ... Just as complaining about BS that does not concern you at the individual level is wasted energy.

 

[azxd]

They don't have the ability to force you to sign anything? So, what happens again if you leave the hospital without signing the paper?

They send you a bill which you can choose to ignore.

 

[azxd]

The thing I'm not getting is how you make it sound like this is OK.
If you hate the cops, why is this an excuse? The fact that they throw people screaming on piss-soaked concrete all night every single day is somehow supposed to excuse the fact that they ignored her cries of pain?
How is the idea that she might have been looking for narcotics from the hospitals an excuse? The fact that some people do this is somehow an excuse for a slipshod diagnosis?

Bad shit happens - I really do get that. What I don't get is how that becomes an out for people who are passively responsible for her death.
There's an opportunity in stories like this to explore how it could have been avoided. As long as the attitude of most people is "aw well, fuck it", then that review is never going to happen.

ETA:



This actually does make it look like you want to review what went wrong, so maybe I misjudged.

Passively responsible ... How many people can you lump into that category of blame ?

 

[pcosmar]

And I don't know what form of socialized medicine you subscribe to,

NO ONE HERE is supporting socialized medicine.
The fact is,, the medical industry* is already socialized. That is the problem and exactly why this happened.

*This is what is really disturbing..

 

[azxd]

NO ONE HERE is supporting socialized medicine.
The fact is,, the medical industry is already socialized. That is the problem and exactly why this happened.

I'm glad you can so easily identify the problem, yet also saddened that you have no solution.

 

[azxd]

Bitch Bitch Bitch

It's always someone else's fault.

 

[pcosmar]

I'm glad you can so easily identify the problem, yet also saddened that you have no solution.

BULLSHIT.

And Ron Paul has spoken of it often. Get the Government out of it.

 

[azxd]

BULLSHIT.

And Ron Paul has spoken of it often. Get the Government out of it.

So one man is going to fix everything ... What about the 535 and all those other idiots holding public office ?

 

[pcosmar]

So one man is going to fix everything ... What about the 535 and all those other idiots holding public office ?

Can't -rep that one

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to azxd again.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Could not have said it better myself.

+rep

You're the one with the broken sarcasm meter..

Look, the reason why AF is upset is because the medical establishment, our educational institutions and a large majority of the institutions we interact with on a daily basis are not only run like but are also aligned with the brutal police state. And it is growing. The police state is encroaching into nearly every facet and corner of our lives.

What we mean by things being run like the police state is that everything within these institutions is run on chain of command and every decision comes from their internal policies, internal policies that are intimately linked with the police state. Many of the internal policies are based on government regulations, so you can see this goes full circle. By supporting the actions of these institutions and the police state, you are supporting big, brutal, oppressive government that is not anything unlike the communism which you apparently oppose.

AF and others here are not supporting socialism, we are supporting freedom. Freedom to go back to practice medicine the way it used to be practiced where individuals like me and you get care from other individuals like Ron Paul or whoever we choose, not this "care" from oppressive institutions that are so intertwined with the over regulated insurance companies that have become overly large due to their intimate relationships with politicians in DC and don't give a rats ass about anybody.

 

[Anti Federalist]

With a slight mod your argument will work for any business, and it's a damn lie to say you can't leave a hospital ... They just ask that you sign a release form stating you refuse their treatement, and they do not have the ability to force you to sign anything.

Oh that's a load of horseshit right there.

We (meaning the immediate AF family) just came through a hospital incident where release was refused, and if pressed, would have resulted in arrest.

 

[dannno]

And within all this preaching, you still failed to administer the correct diagnosis to the hospital

That is irrelevant. In a free market a hospital would tell them there is nothing they can do and ask them to leave. If they didn't have a place to go they would suggest the closest religious or otherwise voluntary non-state funded homeless shelter. If they still wouldn't leave then they would use private security to escort them off of the premises. What they wouldn't do is put a crippled mother in jail.

And I don't know what form of socialized medicine you subscribe to, but I choose my own doctors and pay my own bills, and yes I use insurance, because that is the way the current system works ...

Bull fucking shit you choose your own doctors, you are living in a dream land. Your insurance company chooses them. Your insurance company paid millions of dollars to elect Obama, you actually believe there is ANY semblance to the free market within our health care system?! Free market health care is a lot more than people paying for their own care, it would allow people to pay for WHATEVER care they wanted HOWEVER they wanted rather than the government contrived medical establishment that tells us what treatments we are allowed to have.

I pay for my own insurance and I get a list of like two doctors I can see. I pay for my insurance through my company because it is all tax deductible for me and my company. If I could get tax deductible insurance outside my company or better yet if they decreased the tax rate significantly and ended the tax deductible corporate health care system we have then I would opt for a higher salary and I would get my own catastrophic health insurance plan. Then I would go see doctors who utilize the types of medicines that work best for me (natural medicines). They would get more patients because the government wouldn't prevent them from advertising their medical claims, so the market can test those claims and bring the prices down through competition.

Right now there is zero competition because the FDA and the AMA completely control medicine, and they are run by the same people who funded Obama's campaign. Look it up.

 

[angelatc]

The thing I'm not getting is how you make it sound like this is OK.
If you hate the cops, why is this an excuse? The fact that they throw people screaming on piss-soaked concrete all night every single day is somehow supposed to excuse the fact that they ignored her cries of pain?

I don't think the cops cops "ignored her cries of pain," as much as they assumed the doctors were correct, and that there wasn't anything actually wrong with her. To them, she was just another crazy street person.

How is the idea that she might have been looking for narcotics from the hospitals an excuse? The fact that some people do this is somehow an excuse for a slipshod diagnosis?

Again, hindsight is 20/20. Three hospitals missed this. Isn't is possible that what the spokesperson said was true - sometimes blood clots simply don't show up no matter how many tests they run?

Bad shit happens - I really do get that. What I don't get is how that becomes an out for people who are passively responsible for her death.
There's an opportunity in stories like this to explore how it could have been avoided. As long as the attitude of most people is "aw well, fuck it", then that review is never going to happen.

But this isn't about that. If you don't believe that medical personnel across the globe aren't constantly looking for ways to improve, then there's not much that can be done. This is about the faux outrage over one particular incident, when the (sad) fact is this happens about 200,000 times a year.

 

[angelatc]

Bitch Bitch Bitch

It's always someone else's fault.

Well, it obviously has to be somebody's fault. Certainly it's not the fault of the medical community who mistakenly assumed that a woman who lived in the gutter might possibly be exhibiting drug seeking behavior when their battery of tests all indicated there was no medical issue.

They should never have assumed that just because she lived looked and acted like a crazy person that she might actually behaving a brief moment of rationality.

That would be profiling, and we can't have that.

 

[donnay]

I take the stance that all human life is precious and worth saving. Sometimes good people die by human error, but it seems like the hospital and the police are doing nothing more than pointing fingers at each other to escape any litigation. I only wished I could be called for jury duty on a case like this, because I see both are to blame.

It's clear that both the hospital and the police treated this woman as though she was subhuman. Truly tragic!

 

[tttppp]

No, you didn't. You still haven't told me what could have happened if they gave her a blood thinner and the diagnosis was incorrect, and you haven't told us why you think an MRI would show clots that the ultrasound didn't....you haven't done anything except Google medical conditions that can cause leg pain.

Come on - you gloated that your diagnostic ability was so amazing you were able to tell what was wrong with this woman just from reading a posthumous newspaper account. Please tell us what the hospital should have done differently - bonus points if you can point out anywhere that they diverted from proper medical protocol.

If the doctors had specialized in Chinese traditional medicine, they would have been able to look at her tongue and identify the problem. In a case of blood clots they would not have given her a blood thinner. Blood clots form when your body does not have enough blood, gets dry and forms clumps. The solution is to create more blood with the help of herbs. Herbologist know how to do this, doctors don't.

The protocol should be changed. Our medical system should be based on chinese traditional medicine where the issue is some form of chronic illness like this one. Western medicine does not fix chronic illnesses.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

With a slight mod your argument will work for any business, and it's a damn lie to say you can't leave a hospital ... They just ask that you sign a release form stating you refuse their treatement, and they do not have the ability to force you to sign anything.

Exclusive: RFK's Son Arrested in Westchester Hospital Maternity Unit Clash, Police Say

 

[dannno]

They send you a bill which you can choose to ignore.

A bill for what? Why don't they charge me for the diagnosis first so If I refuse the treatment they offer then I can just leave?