Marine pioneering effort to move women into combat

[PaulConventionWV]

The issue isn't whether some females are capable of combat, many certianly are. The problem is that female presence changes the atmosphere of the males in the group.

That's only a small part of it to me. Some of us still value old chivalry and think feminism and equality are not all they're hyped up to be. Do women really want to be like us? Never in history can I think of a time when society didn't value "women and children" over their men. Now we're destroying that. Gender roles are not a bad thing. Women bear children, so it makes sense that society had always protected women and let them live different lives from men. Gender roles were very important earlier in history, and now that we're so coddled in our society, we think that's no longer necessary, but I disagree because the very nature of each sex hasn't changed. Men are stronger, so their natural role is defense and production. Women are weaker, so their natural role is child-bearing and everything that goes with it. That's not to say women can't travel and do most of the things men do, but no inequality exists in society that isn't there for a reason. I do not want to see gender roles dissipate, and it's not because I'm a power-hungry chauvinistic male.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Me too. I'm torn, because I like to be taken care of. I have two boys and a husband. I can't remember the last time I carried anything heavy. Not because I can't, but because I don't have to.

But on the other hand, I don't need men to take care of me. I have no doubt that I could protect myself and my property just fine. But women are different. I can't imagine some of my girly-girl friends being told they needed to crawl though mud.

But again, back to that first hand - you guys are saying that women shouldn't be in combat because hearing a feminine shout of pain would be too upsetting for the man? Uh.....

The best idea is to stop the damned wars. If the enemy invades us, there will be enough killing for everybody.

They're not going to stop. And feminism is going to go right along with it. Feminism is alive and well in our society. Even more so now than ever, in fact. Whoever said that it's a thing of the past, I really have to wonder where they've been sticking their heads this whole time.

 

[Matthew5]

I sat down to type an opinion on this and I began mapping out all the factors at play. I really can't say whether this is a good or bad thing, because the issue of gender roles, family roles, and population needs have to be addressed first. But we also have the liberty element to it. If we believe in the right of the individual, does that give women the power to abstain from their social role? This is a tough call.

I will say that current de-genderfication (I probably just made up a word) efforts in this society are alarming. How far is too far? I'm leaning toward this not being too far.

Now whether any gender should be fighting these "wars" is a pretty clear cut issue.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Female will have to understand there are risks like...

Sexual Harassment/rape from fellow soldiers
Sexual Harassment/rape from being captured by enemy
Seeing boyfriend blown up (even though its probably against protocol to fraternize with others, you know it will happen)

Not to mention being killed and experience all other manner of ungodly unpleasantness associated with living in tents in the desert.

 

[Matthew5]

That's only a small part of it to me. Some of us still value old chivalry and think feminism and equality are not all they're hyped up to be. Do women really want to be like us? Never in history can I think of a time when society didn't value "women and children" over their men. Now we're destroying that. Gender roles are not a bad thing. Women bear children, so it makes sense that society had always protected women and let them live different lives from men. Gender roles were very important earlier in history, and now that we're so coddled in our society, we think that's no longer necessary, but I disagree because the very nature of each sex hasn't changed. Men are stronger, so their natural role is defense and production. Women are weaker, so their natural role is child-bearing and everything that goes with it. That's not to say women can't travel and do most of the things men do, but no inequality exists in society that isn't there for a reason. I do not want to see gender roles dissipate, and it's not because I'm a power-hungry chauvinistic male.

I'll +rep this. Gender roles are important and I think they need to be preserved. But I think those roles can be tweaked as long as you don't mess with the internal mechanics. I believe there are some inequalities that should be fixed because they're bent in the wrong direction.

 

[dinosaur]

Whoever said that it's a thing of the past, I really have to wonder where they've been sticking their heads this whole time.

I'm the one who said that it was a thing of the past...among women. I said it because the under 40 crowd no longer has a chip on their shoulder about not being seen as "as good as" men or about not having as many opportunities as men. They don't. And if you could get them to be honest, they are sad about not having the opportunity to work inside the home like women of past generations had. There is no mass push for women in combat among yourng females, and I'm betting that the vast majoirity of them would not ever want to deliberately put themselves in that situation. What I find disturbing is that it seems to be mostly men pushing the femminist line these days...and women will go along with it because that is what men expect from them now.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

So... women are allowed to defend themselves with guns... unless they are being paid to do it, in which case only men are good enough?

They're not defending themselves. Can you honestly not differentiate between shooting a burglar or rapist and going thousands of miles to fight people who wouldn't normally concern you in any way. There's also a difference between defending oneself and defending a whole country, although I hate to call it defense at this point because America is not under threat from any enemy.

Sadly, I think most people who use such analogies on this forum know that it's faulty, but they are suffering from cognitive dissonance that allows them to keep their biases despite obvious contradictions. Either that, or you're just a shit disturber and a liar that likes to bait people into arguing against such idiocy. I don't want to use the word "troll" because it's too casual. It's worse than that.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

They're obviously less qualified... could just pay them less. Though I don't think that'd go over too well lol

Exactly. Pay them less because they are less productive... and the feminists scream and shout. Give them equal pay and, well, you get the picture.

Plus, I don't think paying them less would attract too many women. The men aren't paid that much as it is. Weird how that works.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

But billiards is more physics than biceps. Bowling too - why do men perform better? I mean, you can only do so good at bowling.

Weird, huh? Nonetheless, the differences persist. There may also be a strength factor in bowling. I'm terrible at it, and I know my wrists get tired after about 7 rounds, greatly affecting my ability to control the ball.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Don't blame us... blame millions of years of evolution...

Or divine creation. Either way...

 

[demolama]

Female will have to understand there are risks like...

Sexual Harassment/rape from fellow soldiers
Sexual Harassment/rape from being captured by enemy
Seeing boyfriend blown up (even though its probably against protocol to fraternize with others, you know it will happen)

Not to mention being killed and experience all other manner of ungodly unpleasantness associated with living in tents in the desert.

This already happens in non-combat roles. Nothing will change

 

[Keith and stuff]

Not to mention being killed and experience all other manner of ungodly unpleasantness associated with living in tents in the desert.

They already do that. All of that already happens. Women serve in combat rules in the Army, Air Force and Marines already. This just means that some of the tiny number of units which don't currently usually have women will now have women. Women have served on the front lines for many years in the Army. In fact, since at least the post 911 Iraq War.

 

[klamath]

Not to mention being killed and experience all other manner of ungodly unpleasantness associated with living in tents in the desert.

This seems to be based on some pretty bad ignorance of the current situation in the military. You don't think that women that were deployed were in tents now? I must have spent some time in tents with some mighty pretty guys if not.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

This seems to be based on some pretty bad ignorance of the current situation in the military. You don't think that women that were deployed were in tents now? I must have spent some time in tents with some mighty pretty guys if not.

I must have misunderstood the question. Never mind. I thought it was referring to females going into the military for the first time.

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Boys are soldiers and women are for making babies.

Really not surprising we poll so poorly among women.



I am not really able to believe people still think this way.

I poll quite well among women, and one of the reasons is because I'm responsible for their security when they're with me. They know I'm capable of it. The girls I know like this. I also open doors that they could open for themselves, and carry things that they could carry for themselves. And I'll do things like work on their cars sometimes when they need help.

I'm not sure I've ever heard a girl complain about any of those things.

I don't like the idea of girls fighting in wars because I care about them. If they want to, do I feel some overwhelming need to stop them? Not really. But I'm also not a soldier. I don't want men fighting in these wars, either. There's an entire generation coming up with missing limbs and PTSD. I dislike that. If I can differentiate groups of them and express my disapproval, then that's where I'm at. Men, aged 18-21? I don't like that. Men... aged 22-25 I don't like that. Can I stop them? Not really.

I'll carry a 5 year old for a mile, who is perfectly capable of walking. Does that mean I don't respect the 5 year old?