MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT: Lawyers for Ron Paul Lawsuit NOTE: Having the lawsuit not up 4 debate

[KingNothing]

NONE of what we thought was true. Not a bit of it.

These things take their toll on not only those of us involved, but the movement as a whole.

There will be a time for this. When we have all the facts. We do not have them now.

Wait a minute. You mean that people flying off the handle with beliefs that are not rooted in reality is a problem?

 

[cajuncocoa]

What is it that's not "rooted in reality"? Is someone going to come along and tell me that my vote in the Louisiana caucus DID count on April 28, and the delegates I voted for (who won, BTW) are going to be seated next week?

Or do I have to wait until after the convention to determine whether the numerous news reports that came out last night are valid, when it's too late for anyone to do anything about it?

 

[KingNothing]

You'd think with all of the legal experts we have on this board we would be able to take on the RNC ourselves.

Not sure if serious.

The RNC has oodles of money to hire professionals to read every line of every contract, over and over and over again, and weigh all possible outcomes and considerations. This isn't their first trip around the block. We can't beat them with lawyers. We can only beat them by convincing as many people as possible to vote the way we'd like them to vote. Once enough people are on our side, we won't have to worry about their tricks and scheming.

 

[KingNothing]

What is it that's not "rooted in reality"? Is someone going to come along and tell me that my vote in the Louisiana caucus DID count on April 28, and the delegates I voted for (who won, BTW) are going to be seated next week?

Or do I have to wait until after the convention to determine whether the numerous news reports that came out last night are valid, when it's too late for anyone to do anything about it?

What? I don't know. My guess is that the RNC did whatever it wanted to do, and that the Paul campaign was powerless to stop them.

 

[LibertyEagle]

What is it that's not "rooted in reality"? Is someone going to come along and tell me that my vote in the Louisiana caucus DID count on April 28, and the delegates I voted for (who won, BTW) are going to be seated next week?

Or do I have to wait until after the convention to determine whether the numerous news reports that came out last night are valid, when it's too late for anyone to do anything about it?

No, you don't. But, blaming isn't going to find out whether the story is true.

Does anyone have any ideas of what we can do to get to the bottom of this?

 

[kathy88]

Claws down, ladies

 

[torchbearer]

the point is we are supposed to have the MAJORITY, that is what counts in nominating Ron AND in bringing other motions before the assembly to do business generally.

we meed 24 delegates in louisiana for a majority.
that is why 27 was not acceptable and 17 is for the RNC.

 

[ChristopherShelley]

Wait a minute. You mean that people flying off the handle with beliefs that are not rooted in reality is a problem?

And... the ignore button.

 

[KingNothing]

The most troubling thing about this movement is that so many people live and die on every single "battle" -- everything is Apocalyptic. "THIS IS IT! WE MAKE A STAND HERE! WE WILL WIN THIS, THEN WIN THE NOMINATION! BEEYYYAAAAH!"

That's just not how this is going to shakeout, and it isn't how it should shakeout. This -"this" being the Liberty movement- is going to take our entire lives to resolve; certainly it will take longer than one man's presidential campaign.

Sure, fine, pursue legal action where possible. Fight everywhere you can. There's nothing wrong with that. But getting so dejected and depressed that you create absurd conspiracy theories or rush to place blame on anyone other than the RNC and neocons is fruitless. It's just silly.

 

[sailingaway]

The most troubling thing about this movement is that so many people live and die on every single "battle" -- everything is Apocalyptic. "THIS IS IT! WE MAKE A STAND HERE! WE WILL WIN THIS, THEN WIN THE NOMINATION! BEEYYYAAAAH!"

That's just not how this is going to shakeout, and it isn't how it should shakeout. This -"this" being the Liberty movement- is going to take our entire lives to resolve; certainly it will take longer than one man's presidential campaign.

Sure, fine, pursue legal action where possible. Fight everywhere you can. There's nothing wrong with that. But getting so dejected and depressed that you create absurd conspiracy theories or rush to place blame on anyone other than the RNC and neocons is fruitless. It's just silly.

this is not the liberty movement, the liberty movement has no delegates. This is the Ron Paul campaign, and this is definitely what the campaign was for -- getting Ron nominated on the floor at RNC.

 

[cajuncocoa]

The most troubling thing about this movement is that so many people live and die on every single "battle" -- everything is Apocalyptic. "THIS IS IT! WE MAKE A STAND HERE! WE WILL WIN THIS, THEN WIN THE NOMINATION! BEEYYYAAAAH!"

That's just not how this is going to shakeout, and it isn't how it should shakeout. This -"this" being the Liberty movement- is going to take our entire lives to resolve; certainly it will take longer than one man's presidential campaign.

Sure, fine, pursue legal action where possible. Fight everywhere you can. There's nothing wrong with that. But getting so dejected and depressed that you create absurd conspiracy theories or rush to place blame on anyone other than the RNC and neocons is fruitless. It's just silly.

this is not the liberty movement, the liberty movement has no delegates. This is the Ron Paul campaign, and this is definitely what the campaign was for -- getting Ron nominated on the floor at RNC.

Yes.

We must take a stand on important issues (such as making sure our duly-elected delegates get seated for the convention). That doesn't mean we win in Tampa; it means we won't stand for them screwing us over.

Some things are worth the fight.

 

[torchbearer]

After the convention, I will start a new thread entitled: "The BIG lie".

Hope you like it.

make it a blog. i'll read.

 

[KingNothing]

this is not the liberty movement, the liberty movement has no delegates. This is the Ron Paul campaign, and this is definitely what the campaign was for -- getting Ron nominated on the floor at RNC.

Ok. And?

 

[KingNothing]

After the convention, I will start a new thread entitled: "The BIG lie".

Hope you like it.

Where's the lie? The RNC has been pretty straightforward and honest with its disdain of the process it has put together, when that process gives it results that it doesn't like.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Where's the lie? The RNC has been pretty straightforward and honest with its disdain of the process it has put together, when that process gives it results that it doesn't like.

So what do YOU suggest we do about that? Go along to get along?

 

[KingNothing]

So what do YOU suggest we do about that? Go along to get along?

Focus on Liberty. Spread the message. Work to get as many delegates as we can in this election, and every election, and work to get as many people in as many political positions as possible. That's it. Beyond that, I have no idea what anyone should do. We aren't going to win the nomination this year. We probably aren't going to be able to nominate Paul. And if we could, it wouldn't really accomplish anything more than giving the man an opportunity to speak. That has value, but not an infinite amount of value. This convention isn't Judgement Day. We'll have more cracks at this.

EDIT: Ultimately, I guess that I suggest that people do whatever they feel is best, after rationally weighing their options and making a decision that is focused on Liberty and Virtue. Ya know? be good people. Don't be emotional and reckless. That's all.

 

[ChristopherShelley]

"18. All warfare is based on deception.

19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near."

- http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html

Look, one can only stop so much from happening. But once it happens, whatever it is, one can deal with it.

Paul can still deal with whatever reality is created over the upcoming days and weeks. We all have to. One can't determine everything, but one can deal with anything.

If you look at your goals, be they defending your life or your liberty or whatever, as JUST an endpoint, you are always going to be disappointed, because there is always going to be a threat, or at least a potential for threat.

But that's why defense of what one values is a process that does not end.

One must win as many battles as possible, but the war goes on.

If Paul does not become president, then to me the BIGGEST battle, so far, was lost. That is MY opinion.

But the war goes on. The POINT of war is to DEFEND, not to "win."

If one chooses to defend one's self, one's freedom, one's life, one's family, then one must never give up on the process. Some battles must be lost in order to survive, so that one can continue to fight and defend.


I don't claim to know what Paul's intentions are, what, if any, plan he has, but I can believe that he has an endgame, and that it is defending the people of this country, of this world.

That endgame is the "war" itself, DEFENSE.

By choosing the defense as the endgame itself, one can only go wrong it what it chooses to defend.

Whatever realities has been created by the campaign, the RNC, or by Paul himself, I believe that I cannot place 100% faith in any theory that I or anyone else can come up with as to how or why these realities were created. And by realities, I mean facts, as in, "Ron Paul is still a candidate for president", or "Rand endorsed Romney."

Do I believe that Ron Paul has the intention of defending the people of this world? Yes, I believe that. When I balance what I know about him, that is something that I am willing to put faith in.

But does Ron Paul deceive? If he is fighting a "war", and if one accepts the premise that "all warfare is based on deception", then yes, I do.

The point is, "why" and "how" does one deceive? If one deceives to defend, to protect, then the deception is in alignment with the point of the war.

So if Ron Paul has a "plan", and he has or does deceive, I believe that it is in alignment with his endgame, to defend the people of this country, the people of this world.

That is my belief.

But NO ONE can determine the outcome of each battle. One has to reposition one's self, find new strategies to fight, in order to NOT LOSE THE WAR.

As long as those strategies are in alignment with the principle, the ONLY just principle that one can have to go to war, which is to defend that which should never be taken from anyone, then one has the moral high ground.

"16. The consummate leader cultivates the moral law, and strictly adheres to method and discipline; thus it is in his power to control success."

I believe, that at this moment in our history, our moral leader is Ron Paul.

I will place faith in him, his intelligence, and his sincerity, as much as I see that it is due.

But as individuals, it is our responsibility to determine what is truly going on and act accordingly. If we are part of this "war", then our mission is to defend that what must be defended, while adhering to moral principles.

That, to me, is the only way a "war" can be justified. The means justify the ends, and the ends justify the means.

This, again, to me, is a dynamic that exists in everything we do, whether it is trying to elect a president, or that president defending his nation from physical harm, or just me talking with someone. There is always the possibility that I or anyone could infringe on someone's rights.

That is the balance that must be kept. Defend what must be defended for you and for all.

If I had to choose one person to do that as the president of the United States, right now it would be Paul.

Babe Ruth used to hit more home runs than other TEAMS.

I want him hitting clean-up, not as the bench coach.

But we can't always get what we want.

But we have to keep trying.

And to me, the whole freaking point of this is to DEFEND that which must be defended.

Paul or no Paul.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Focus on Liberty. Spread the message. Work to get as many delegates as we can in this election, and every election, and work to get as many people in as many political positions as possible. That's it. Beyond that, I have no idea what anyone should do. We aren't going to win the nomination this year. We probably aren't going to be able to nominate Paul. And if we could, it wouldn't really accomplish anything more than giving the man an opportunity to speak. That has value, but not an infinite amount of value. This convention isn't Judgement Day. We'll have more cracks at this.

EDIT: Ultimately, I guess that I suggest that people do whatever they feel is best, after rationally weighing their options and making a decision that is focused on Liberty and Virtue. Ya know? be good people. Don't be emotional and reckless. That's all.

All that may be true....BUT...we (Louisiana) had a caucus on April 28. I, and many other voters like me, voted for Ron Paul delegates. Ron Paul delegates won.

Others attended an infamous convention in Shreveport in June. The delegates chose someone other than Roger Villere to head the LAGOP, a Ron Paul supporter who was later assaulted. We were due even more delegates from that convention as I understand it.

I am fighting to have my vote count. I may even pursue this as a legal matter if those delegates don't get seated. IMO, that is an issue that is bigger than Ron Paul or even the whole Liberty Movement. Maybe they think they can just come along and wipe out the whole election process and do what they want. Maybe they can, but I'm not going to stop fighting until all resources are exhausted. Got it?

 

[sailingaway]

Ok. And?

and therefor that is what we are fighting for through the end and those who don't want to should focus on other aspects of the liberty movement than Ron Paul's campaign, I should think.

But it is pretty astonishing to have people come into RON PAUL's CAMPAIGN forum and tell people we should just walk away while the convention is a week away.

Yes, people should do what they want in support of liberty and that is what we are doing. You are just harassing people doing it.

 

[ChristopherShelley]

Focus on Liberty. Spread the message. Work to get as many delegates as we can in this election, and every election, and work to get as many people in as many political positions as possible. That's it. Beyond that, I have no idea what anyone should do. We aren't going to win the nomination this year. We probably aren't going to be able to nominate Paul. And if we could, it wouldn't really accomplish anything more than giving the man an opportunity to speak. That has value, but not an infinite amount of value. This convention isn't Judgement Day. We'll have more cracks at this.

EDIT: Ultimately, I guess that I suggest that people do whatever they feel is best, after rationally weighing their options and making a decision that is focused on Liberty and Virtue. Ya know? be good people. Don't be emotional and reckless. That's all.

08-22-2012 01:16 PM
KingNothing
Thread: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT:...
Ditto, fatso.

Hey Kong, thanks for the -rep. Is that guerilla for ipso facto?